Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Nathan2]

On 2/6/2021 at 1:13 PM, kermit said:

Another study confirming that living near highways (within 50-150 meters depending on traffic volume) can cause serious health problems such as Alzheimer’s, MS and Parkinson's.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200123152616.htm

Its time to incorporate these public health costs into the budgets of construction and expansion projects.

Lovely, I live within 100 ft. of independence.  Could be my bias living near it, but I have always felt that 74 should be getting the same attention as 277 to be removed, capped, or at least turned back into an actual boulevard. Seems like it does as much damage splitting the city apart and would be an awesome park leading into the city. 

[joenc]

17 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

Lovely, I live within 100 ft. of independence.  Could be my bias living near it, but I have always felt that 74 should be getting the same attention as 277 to be removed, capped, or at least turned back into an actual boulevard. Seems like it does as much damage splitting the city apart and would be an awesome park leading into the city. 

Perhaps some day we'll do something like this:

https://www.vox.com/2015/1/9/7520805/hamburg-highway

Edited February 19, 2021 by joenc

[Nathan2]

7 minutes ago, joenc said:

Perhaps some day we'll do something like this:

https://www.vox.com/2015/1/9/7520805/hamburg-highway

That would be completely transformative for east charlotte. 

[KJHburg]

down Central Ave from Eastway today first time in a long time and saw the bus only lanes.  I surely wished CATS would have given more thought about Bus Rapid Transit around town with stations like what Raleigh is doing and we have a very extensive transit system for a fraction of the price.

If you have not seen it here is GoRaleigh's plans  New Bern Ave up first and once constructions starts this year will be done in 2 years. 

Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) Projects | Raleighnc.gov

 

[southslider]

On 2/19/2021 at 3:03 PM, KJHburg said:

 

Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) Projects | Raleighnc.gov

 

Upgrade bus stops to be more like stations. Buy newer buses. Run them more often. So many options here besides building tracks.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

'

A high profile group of midtown Atlanta boosters including Georgia Tech and Chick Fil A CEO Dan Cathy has proposed this massive plan for the downtown connector. This is what removing 277 could look like.

[elrodvt]

Looks great at first glance. 

Odd coming from Atlanta where they still think it's a good idea to build a new mlb park with limited transit options and a cheesy ” fake village” around it.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

On 3/2/2021 at 10:00 PM, elrodvt said:

Looks great at first glance. 

Odd coming from Atlanta where they still think it's a good idea to build a new mlb park with limited transit options and a cheesy ” fake village” around it.

That was more like Rock Hill getting the Panthers training facility. ATL just spent a ton on renovating NBA arena and building a new NFL and MLS stadium. We have our own issues with that on the horizon too. 

[KJHburg]

from this weekend I-485 new express lanes construction.  This project is moving fast.   this is between Matthews exit and Providence Road exit. 

[Skyybutter]

Drove Independence to Brookshire to 77n to 85n to CCMills exit at 7pm on tuesday. Traffic is definitely picking up as Covid restrictions ease and schools open back up!!

    I think we are all in for a rude awakening in the fall. 

   Best case is that companies will let those jobs that can be worked remotely continue to do so. 

  Either way, 50,000 new residents will move here this year so there ya go!!

[KJHburg]

New I-85 US 321 interchange is now open.   Basically it makes it easier to head from I-85 south on US 321 north without the half cloverleaf and stoplight.  Also easier access to 85 north from 321 south by crossing over the northbound lanes under the bridge with direct access and longer ramp to 85 north.  

couple of photos but these make it hard to see.   all photos from southbound US 321.   These improvements eliminate some of the back ups at the old interchange. 

[QClifer]

I have not been theough the new interchange since it’s been completely finished. I’ve been through it multiple time on the new part from 85s to 321 and it kept backing up at that stoplight on 321.  They needed to have 2 lanes feed directly into 321 from 85 without stopping.  Maybe that has changed since finishing the project. 

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

On 3/11/2021 at 7:22 PM, QClifer said:

I have not been theough the new interchange since it’s been completely finished. I’ve been through it multiple time on the new part from 85s to 321 and it kept backing up at that stoplight on 321.  They needed to have 2 lanes feed directly into 321 from 85 without stopping.  Maybe that has changed since finishing the project. 

Yeah generally I'm not for widening lanes to keep up with traffic, but 321 is about 80 miles of interstate grade roads just to peter out right before 85, why wouldn't they loop it back into 85 with an onramp a mile or 2 west of that interchange is beyond me.

[#1Son]

4 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Yeah generally I'm not for widening lanes to keep up with traffic, but 321 is about 80 miles of interstate grade roads just to peter out right before 85, why wouldn't they loop it back into 85 with an onramp a mile or 2 west of that interchange is beyond me.

That was the original plan when the Garden Parkway toll road was proposed, but it was dropped early on in the project.  Mainly due to opposition to the toll road even though the connector wasn't part of the toll road.  NCDOT archived the original source but the link explains what basically happened.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Parkway  

[DownEast]

Yeah. But the way the Garden Parkway linked 321 to 85N would required a wide loop from Dallas to Bessemer City to eventually head to Charlotte. Even with the parkway you would have continued to use 321 to access 85N. I'll never understand that "jughandle" they tacked on north of 85.

Edited March 16, 2021 by DownEast

[kermit]

Gezzus, F'in Christ, is Bokhari getting dumber? This is vaporware.  Elon appears to spend the majority of his time thinking up ways to discourage cities from investing in transit. 

 

 

[Blue_Devil]

16 hours ago, kermit said:

Gezzus, F'in Christ, is Bokhari getting dumber? This is vaporware.  Elon appears to spend the majority of his time thinking up ways to discourage cities from investing in transit. 

 

Why is it vaporware? They are just finishing up the Vegas Tunnels. Are you confusing this with Hyperloop? What the boring company is doing right now involves people movers. 

 

[kermit]

Quote

Why is it vaporware? They are just finishing up the Vegas Tunnels. Are you confusing this with Hyperloop? 

Its vaporware because the Charlotte proposal was to tunnel beneath intersections to create a car bypass. Unfortunately the boring company’s big “innovation” was simply to build smaller tunnels (that just have the capacity for a single car running on autopilot). This means that each tunnel is just a very expensive way to create less than one lane of additional capacity. 

Then you have the issue of getting cars in and out of the tunnel. Hawthorne used elevators, Vegas moves people down to dedicated vehicles. The Charlotte proposal would involve ramping the travel lanes down, but this will require either consuming existing lane space (eliminating any speed advantages for the tunnels) or acquiring property (eliminating any cost advantages). Then you gotta get the cars merged back into the traffic stream — a merging process that will certainly gum up traffic further and remove any speed advantages that sending a handful of cars through a tunnel might achieve.

Then you have the issue of emergency egress from the tunnels, something that the boring company’s thinks they should be exempt from, so they just don’t build emergency egress (or propose that people climb ladders when emergency exists are absolutely necessary). Building emergency exits further erodes any boring company cost advantages over normal tunnels.

While most Musk fanboys will dismiss issues like this as just minor details that can be worked out along the way, they enable Musk to continue along his path of proposing fantastical technocratic solutions to transportation problems in an effort to slow (or stop) investment in workable mass transit and land use change. Bokhari bit on this one hook, line and sinker.

Edited March 23, 2021 by kermit

[Madison Parkitect]

21 minutes ago, kermit said:

Its vaporware because the Charlotte proposal was to tunnel beneath intersections to create a car bypass. Unfortunately the boring company’s big “innovation” was simply to build smaller tunnels (that just have the capacity for a single car running on autopilot). This means that each tunnel is just a very expensive way to create less than one lane of additional capacity. 

Then you have the issue of getting cars in and out of the tunnel. Hawthorne used elevators, Vegas moves people down to dedicated vehicles. The Charlotte proposal would involve ramping the travel lanes down, but this will require either consuming existing lane space (eliminating any speed advantages for the tunnels) or acquiring property (eliminating any cost advantages). Then you gotta get the cars merged back into the traffic stream — a merging process that will certainly gum up traffic further and remove any speed advantages that sending a handful of cars through a tunnel might achieve.

Then you have the issue of emergency egress from the tunnels, something that the boring company’s thinks they should be exempt from, so they just don’t build emergency egress (or propose that people climb ladders when emergency exists are absolutely necessary). Building emergency exits further erodes any boring company cost advantages over normal tunnels.

While most Musk fanboys will dismiss issues like this as just minor details that can be worked out along the way, they enable Musk to continue along his path of proposing fantastical technocratic solutions to transportation problems in an effort to slow (or stop) investment in workable mass transit and land use change. Bokhari bit on this one hook, line and sinker.

Thank you for this. Boring Co. tunnels are absurd and an absolute waste of money on their own, and now Bokhari wants to make it an even worse idea by shortening then length so that it only goes under busy intersections. It's an insanely awful idea, and Bokhari's big takeaway is that they'll come build it if we pay them to.

[Blue_Devil]

36 minutes ago, kermit said:

Its vaporware because the Charlotte proposal was to tunnel beneath intersections to create a car bypass. Unfortunately the boring company’s big “innovation” was simply to build smaller tunnels (that just have the capacity for a single car running on autopilot). This means that each tunnel is just a very expensive way to create less than one lane of additional capacity. 

Then you have the issue of getting cars in and out of the tunnel. Hawthorne used elevators, Vegas moves people down to dedicated vehicles. The Charlotte proposal would involve ramping the travel lanes down, but this will require either consuming existing lane space (eliminating any speed advantages for the tunnels) or acquiring property (eliminating any cost advantages). Then you gotta get the cars merged back into the traffic stream — a merging process that will certainly gum up traffic further and remove any speed advantages that sending a handful of cars through a tunnel might achieve.

Then you have the issue of emergency egress from the tunnels, something that the boring company’s thinks they should be exempt from, so they just don’t build emergency egress (or propose that people climb ladders when emergency exists are absolutely necessary). Building emergency exits further erodes any boring company cost advantages over normal tunnels.

While most Musk fanboys will dismiss issues like this as just minor details that can be worked out along the way, they enable Musk to continue along his path of proposing fantastical technocratic solutions to transportation problems in an effort to slow (or stop) investment in workable mass transit and land use change. Bokhari bit on this one hook, line and sinker.

I thought the overall purpose of what TBC is trying to do now was find a way to bring Boring costs down do that tunnels were a cheap option long term. I don't particularly like Musk, but his track record on other things, Tesla and SpaceX is impressive. 

[kermit]

8 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

I thought the overall purpose of what TBC is trying to do now was find a way to bring Boring costs down do that tunnels were a cheap option long term. I don't particularly like Musk, but his track record on other things, Tesla and SpaceX is impressive. 

Yea, that was the hope of Boring, but tunneling is a process that is a couple hundred years old so the easy ways to reduce tunneling costs have been done already. Looking at what Boring has done thus far it is clear that their chief innovation is smaller tunnels. So yes, the company found a way to reduce tunneling costs, but it was in a way that makes them much less usable.

[Blue_Devil]

9 minutes ago, kermit said:

Yea, that was the hope of Boring, but tunneling is a process that is a couple hundred years old so the easy ways to reduce tunneling costs have been done already. Looking at what Boring has done thus far it is clear that their chief innovation is smaller tunnels. So yes, the company found a way to reduce tunneling costs, but it was in a way that makes them much less usable.

Isn't the hope to eventually expand size though? I mean, tbh I don't want Charlotte paying to be the experimental case study, but I think TBC wants to eventually build larger tunnels too. The small ones are designed to be able to fit hyperloop, which is vaporware. 

 

Just to add though, Virgin Hyperloop seems to be making progress. Just slowly. 

 

And the Chicago-Cleveland route is actually making progress:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9347401/Hyperloop-Chicago-Cleveland-route-steps-closer-unveiling-worlds-safety-valve.html

Edited March 23, 2021 by Blue_Devil
More.

[kermit]

1 hour ago, Blue_Devil said:

Isn't the hope to eventually expand size though? I mean, tbh I don't want Charlotte paying to be the experimental case study, but I think TBC wants to eventually build larger tunnels too.

There has been no sign that they have been working on bigger tunnels. Their big value add to tunneling was the realization that the area of a cone (dirt to be moved) is proportional to the square of its radius so they have only ever proposed hyperloop or single car lane sized tunnels. There is nothing about their tunneling technology that suggests it would be more efficient than existing tunneling machines for normal-sized bores.

[elrodvt]

39 minutes ago, kermit said:

There has been no sign that they have been working on bigger tunnels. Their big value add to tunneling was the realization that the area of a cone (dirt to be moved) is proportional to the square of its radius so they have only ever proposed hyperloop or single car lane sized tunnels. There is nothing about their tunneling technology that suggests it would be more efficient than existing tunneling machines for normal-sized bores.

I don't get the "fanboy" or Musk hate! The guys completely revolutionized Space and Autos in a very short time and *without feeding from the public trough*. Most of the other efforts (boeing and LM) are huge profit makers for the companies with contracts written by their lobbyists and cemented by bought congressmen.

Yes, he rarely meets his ridiculously optimistic dates but he does a lot better than nasa (for example) and setting aggressive goals is a time trusted management approach to get the best from your team.

That said I'm also very pessimistic boring will pan out as he hopes. Yes, people have been tunneling for hundreds of years but it's not like space travel is all that new either. So, I think that's not a good argument against trying it. The argument that it doesn't scale may be true though?

BUT, in any case, the killer for me is that considering all the transit needs CLT has, and it's inability to manage a fairly small public transit infrastructure, I just can't imagine CLT being good candidate for anything remotely innovative. Plus I'm sure our state legislature would come up with ways to prevent it anyway.

[Madison Parkitect]

6 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

BUT, in any case, the killer for me is that considering all the transit needs CLT has, and it's inability to manage a fairly small public transit infrastructure, I just can't imagine CLT being good candidate for anything remotely innovative. Plus I'm sure our state legislature would come up with ways to prevent it anyway.

NCDOT would refuse to maintain the tunnels because they're built by a private company or something stupid like that, so you'd have maintenance issues at the line between road and tunnel every time. Or the city would hire a steel contractor that would end up making the tunnel exits 5' tall.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Madison Parkitect