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Soleil Center I & II at Crabtree

durham_rtp

By durham_rtp
in The NC Triangle

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Eastwestrob Hamlet

Eastwestrob

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I will be there with my video camera to watch that delapitated structure fall in all its glory!!! From the ashes will rise Raleigh's finest structure yet in the Crabtree Valley. :unsure:

I personally think this will be the second best Tower in N.C. Only second to B of A.

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ChiefJoJo Town

ChiefJoJo

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I love the project, hate the location.

I agree that its kind of crazy that we, as a city, allowed this thing in that location (a flood plain of all places). I mean, it's lunacy to let someone build a 40+ story bldg 4 miles from DT... or am I alone in thinking that?

There is no question that it's a beautiful design, but is that enough to overlook such a rediculous location for a skyscraper?

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MireLanski Unincorporated Area

MireLanski

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I think it'll be a tossup between Hearst and Soliel - I really like Hearst, I think I would actually put it ahead of BofA.

The Hearst building is a fine looking tower. I too revel in it's shadow when I am in Charlotte. I still think of the BoA as a majestic beacon especially at night when her crown is lit. Pretty cool to know that the 59th tallest in the world is in NC.

When will Raleigh get their piece of the 800 foot plus real estate?

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MR-2 Hamlet

MR-2

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I am thinking that the real deal will look much nicer than the rendering.

If it looks like Flash's interpretation, it'll be a really slick building. If it looks like the N&O rendering, it will be a prime candidate for demolition in a few decades. I hate saying this, but I guess we'll see how it looks when it's done.

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romec Whistle-Stop

romec

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Ok, this part I don't like. I'm hoping that at least half of that 18 stories is parking, because 18 stories of Office Space is a LOT for the market to absorb. The 18 stories of office is directly competing with downtown. If Raleigh were a larger market like Atlanta or Houston, this would be great. Unless they already have tenants in mind that absoultely refuse to locate downtown, I really hope this doesn't go through as planned, at least not for another 5 years or so.

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Raleighsfinest Whistle-Stop

Raleighsfinest

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Ok, this part I don't like. I'm hoping that at least half of that 18 stories is parking, because 18 stories of Office Space is a LOT for the market to absorb. The 18 stories of office is directly competing with downtown. If Raleigh were a larger market like Atlanta or Houston, this would be great. Unless they already have tenants in mind that absoultely refuse to locate downtown, I really hope this doesn't go through as planned, at least not for another 5 years or so.

Whaaaattteevverr man! This is awesome news. Don't underestimate Raleigh. Projects like this set monumental standards of what this city is capable of. Project like this bring alot of attention to the area. Besides nobody says anything when someone builds 5 or 6 3 story office projects simutaneously, that are scattered in the middle of nowhere, which makes absolutely no statement whatsoever. Think about it.

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plus2 Whistle-Stop

plus2

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This is exactly the type of building Soleil needed to be more visually pleasing. They will work well together. I hope it doesn't take business from downtown, but I agree with the above comment. The real problem is the excess of suburban office parks, like that thing behind Crabtree off of Edwards Mill.

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romec Whistle-Stop

romec

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I am being logical. . . .

There is nothing to indicate that there is a strong demand for office. For 12 years, We didn't add any office space downtown, then progress II was built. In occupying that tower, space opened up in 1 progress and in BofA plaza. One Exchange plaza has been mostly vacant, but now has the city as a major tenant. We have new office space coming in Quorum, Site 1, RBC and Reynolds. That's a lot of office space coming online in a short amount of time. We have no idea if the demand is there or not. This is partly the reason why every large proposal we've seen has been mixed use, if the office market is weak, you lose a lot less money if you only have 8 stories of office as opposed to 30.

There are a couple of factors that aren't known yet that will make a huge difference.

Timing? are they talking 2008 or a couple of years later?

What does "mostly" mean in an 18 story building. 16 stories or 9?

how many sq ft?

Adding 16 stories practically at the same time as RBC, Site 1 and Reynolds (Even ignoring Reynolds) is going to glut the market (UNLESS we score a corporate relocation). I'd rather them wait a couple of years rather than

a) A beautiful office building next to soleil sits 70% empty for 5 years until the market strengthens

b) RBC or Site 1 having vacant offices, the DT office market stalls for 10 years before people think about building downtown office again.

This game is all about momentum, and we've got a lot of it right now. If you overbuild a market, and the demand isn't there, that is when you get stagnation. In my original post I remarked that if this were in Atlanta or Houston then defintely yes. My reasoning is that those markets are large enough that one building getting built on spec and sitting empty isn't going to kill the office market. In Raleigh, that chance is there.

I'd like to see this project there at some point in the future, but just not the near future. We can't glut the office market because it will make Soleil look more visually appealing. I'm hoping that this was released to let people know that there are plans in the future so that we don't end up with our own pickle.

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Raleighsfinest Whistle-Stop

Raleighsfinest

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Do you really believe that? Where are your figures? I'm quite sure any developer coming to this area, certainly did their homework. Eighteen stories is tall, but not that big. This isn't an office park they're building. This building does not spell the end for the DT or the regional office market. This isn't Gboro or Durham. Raleigh's market is considerably much larger, and plays in a significantly larger playing field. Towers are just phallic symbles of prominance. This tower in particular is just a midrise building with a message(it's not the world trade).

Also if Raleigh was maybe a place that suffers from stagnant growth i'd get your point, but this city will be 600,000 by 2030! The time for carpet bagging developers, who build to market is now!

Our Mayberry days are over! :D

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pdxheel Whistle-Stop

pdxheel

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Whaaaattteevverr man! This is awesome news. Don't underestimate Raleigh. Projects like this set monumental standards of what this city is capable of. Project like this bring alot of attention to the area. Besides nobody says anything when someone builds 5 or 6 3 story office projects simutaneously, that are scattered in the middle of nowhere, which makes absolutely no statement whatsoever. Think about it.

I find nothing awesome about the fact that Raleigh's tallest building (and another tall building) will be built miles from DT. Only in the Triangle is this considered good.

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jlblaes Whistle-Stop

jlblaes

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I find nothing awesome about the fact that Raleigh's tallest building (and another tall building) will be built miles from DT. Only in the Triangle is this considered good.

I find someone who is willing to invest $185 million in private capital without public subsidies and generating $4M in annual tax revenue to be a pretty good thing (maybe not awesome but pretty good).

Perhpas if the downtown market was that good, the development would take place there. But it was said earlier in this thread that there is already a lot of office/hotel space planned downtown and this wouldn't work there. If it fails then the Soliel folks and their creditors will have to deal with the ramifications.

JB

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NCMike1981 Burg

NCMike1981

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People complained that the Soleil Tower would stand out like a sore thumb for years to come then another decent sized building is proposed adjacent to it, which would help to balance things out a bit, and some people still complain. It's a lose-lose situation for some...

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dmccall Burg

dmccall

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I guess the critical question here is: Are downtown and Crabtree in the same "market"? There are plenty of companies who seek office space "anywhere but downtown". So in that case, they go out to Six Forks and Strickland, or a 540 intersection and build build build. If there were a 20% occupancy rate downtown these companies still wouldn't consider being downtown. So in this case, I agree with Raleighsfinest (for once :) ) Also, for years the most expensive class A office space has been anything-close-to-Glenwood/440. I imagine demand is still high in that area. This bodes well for the mall, btw (different topic, I know)

On the other hand, we definitely don't want to over build like it appears that we did in 1990. For years the two 29-story buildings had too much empty space. But! Things are definitely different with downtown, the market, and the leadership than they were in 1988. DT has WAY more momentum with the influx of restaurants and residential.

As far as tall buildings outside of downtown goes, that's everywhere. The King and Queen buildings in Atlanta are fantastic looking takes on 80's glass highrises and give that area of the monotonous suburbs some character. Like someont above said: some of y'all complained about the condo/hotel tower being a big solitary thumb. Now it wont be. Maybe the guys up the hill will quit building 3-5 story buildings and go up, putting in a livable town.

I think it is time to revisit the Glenwood/440 interchange and explore branching off across from the Ridge Rd. area.

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