CONSTRUCTION THREAD: Magnolia Park Town Center

[g-man430]

Well at least we do have one tidbit of information to report as FACT and no longer speculation:

It seems that the developers of Magnolia Park Town Center aggressively pursued Nordstrom's (God bless their hearts for trying for us!) for the site but Nordstrom's stated that Greenville was just too small of a market for them to move into right now. Oh well.

That's great that they tried really hard to get them. Cheesecake Factory and the Apple Store don't think our market is too small though.

[Spartan]

OK, I am not adding any more items to this discussion, other than this: I was wrong. Due to that county government building and the 1,000 or so highly paid government employees, along with the other retailers already announced or already on the site, Neiman Marcus, Prada, Nordstrom, Tiffany, Cartier, Apple Store, Burberry, Louis Vuitton and the Cheesecake Factory are all coming to Magnolia Park. Oh, or was it the Rooms to Go that's coming that lured those other tenants, or was it the existing Shoe Carnival?

Alright guys, I know I'm WAAY late on this reply, but here it goes:

Do you not think that Verdae's projected build out has any influence over the Magnolia site? What's its 5 and 10 year build out population? Isnt' the 20 yr build out around 10,000? I would argue that Verdae has more pull on the tennants there than the one government building. I'd also like to think that Greenville will make efforts to tie in Magnolia and Verdae with new roads, developments and maybe transit if they can ever get GTA up and running full steam again.

I still think that moving county government to the most congested corridor in the state is a bad idea.

What impact do y'all think the propsed mega-retail site on Hwy 14 in Greer will have on this project? That site would be the idea location for large stores like BPS and some of these other stores with more centralized access to two markets (both G and SP).

[g-man430]

I think it's a great idea moving county offices over to Magnolia Park just to give these idiots that work for the county a taste of their own medicine. I also think it's a great idea moving the offices because that would open up county square to a new mixed-use development.

Edited March 4, 2007 by g-man430

[Spartan]

That seems rather spiteful. I agree that moving county offices would be good... County Square is attrocious at best. But why not somewhere else in downtown? I think you have to look at it in terms of Greenville County residents rather than the workers at Greenville County. It doesnt do any good to have more traffic on a congested corridor. Anyway, I digress. Back to topic.

[gs3]

Good question. On the retail side, all these developments say that "Greenville (and Upstate) is on the retail radar". Magnolia, Crescent, Greenridge, The Point, new Highway 14 development, South Financial shops, Haywood additions, the new Anderson retail at 85 and exit 19, Cherrydale North, the Travelers Rest developments, Westgate area additions, Simpsonville retail, etc, etc. That's alot of additional retail in a short few years. Magnolia along with Greenridge, The Point, Haywood, etc, has put in concrete the epicenter of retail for the Upstate both in sheer traffic numbers, population density in a radius, as well as being almost the exact center of Upstate (and having two major interstates cross). This area can pull from Anderson, Spartanburg, North and South.

I think both the Highway 14 development and Magnolia will compliment each other, giving Greenville residents and all Upstate residents excellent choices.

As for the County offices, I'm in support. Is Woodruff best for those offices? I'd have to say probably not, but the pros still outweigh the cons IMO.

[linkerjpatrick]

I heard the city manager speak at a recent business meeting and he mentioned that they in addition to moving the county offices to Woodruff Road they were also planning on opening up several smaller "service centers" throughout the county so for example people on the westside and northern parts of the county would not have to go all the way over to Woodruff Road to pay taxes and other similar business.

[gs3]

I heard the city manager speak at a recent business meeting and he mentioned that they in addition to moving the county offices to Woodruff Road they were also planning on opening up several smaller "service centers" throughout the county so for example people on the westside and northern parts of the county would not have to go all the way over to Woodruff Road to pay taxes and other similar business.

That's an excellent plan.

[vicupstate]

That seems rather spiteful. I agree that moving county offices would be good... County Square is attrocious at best. But why not somewhere else in downtown?

Because no one will give the county a new building DT, in exchange for the County Square site. This is a unique opportunity that shouldn't be missed. There are some MINOR negatives, but they are far outweighed by the positives.

By doing this deal, the Magnolia Plaza project will be bigger and denser and produce more tax revenue. Additionally, the County Square site gets redeveloped and will do likewise.

A bird in the hand is worth more than a fantasy idea. Besides the current congestion on Woodruff is further down, not at this site. Albeit, it will no doubt increase.

Edited March 4, 2007 by vicupstate

[Spartan]

I heard the city manager speak at a recent business meeting and he mentioned that they in addition to moving the county offices to Woodruff Road they were also planning on opening up several smaller "service centers" throughout the county so for example people on the westside and northern parts of the county would not have to go all the way over to Woodruff Road to pay taxes and other similar business.

Thats a good idea. They need to do that anyway.

Because no one will give the county a new building DT, in exchange for the County Square site. This is a unique opportunity that shouldn't be missed. There are some MINOR negatives, but they are far outweighed by the positives.

By doing this deal, the Magnolia Plaza project will be bigger and denser and produce more tax revenue. Additionally, the County Square site gets redeveloped and will do likewise.

A bird in the hand is worth more than a fantasy idea. Besides the current congestion on Woodruff is further down, not at this site. Albeit, it will no doubt increase.

I don't see making the traffic worse on Woodruff Rd as a minor problem, but thats just me. Government doesn't pay taxes, so that whole building will not generate anything. The County Square site will generate more revenue though.

[whitehourseview]

For the issues Spartan references, I've never been in favor of the Magnolia Park location for county square. To me, in provides an artificial government subsidy for the developer.

Is county square the best location? I dunno, if not I could name plenty of other better locations: Laurens Road, perhaps the old Grove Road Winn-Dixie location across from the Red Cross, etc.

[GvilleSC]

Magnolia Park is pretty centrally located for the population in the county. What's the problem with making it centralized in addition to adding some good exposure for the city with a highrise at the intersection of two important interstates? I like the move.

[g-man430]

^^^Don't ask me, ask Spartan. I'm not sure why it matters to him or not whether the county offices get moved to Woodruff Road or stay put seeing how he doesn't even live in Greenville County. I live in Anderson County, so it doesn't affect me either.

Edited March 5, 2007 by g-man430

[whitehourseview]

Magnolia Park is pretty centrally located for the population in the county. What's the problem with making it centralized in addition to adding some good exposure for the city with a highrise at the intersection of two important interstates? I like the move.

Why would the city get exposure from a county office in a building there?

[g-man430]

Why would the city get exposure from a county office in a building there?

Wow. This forum was dead earlier and now it just came back to life. ...because it would be a highrise and in the city limits.

[whitehourseview]

Wow. This forum was dead earlier and now it just came back to life. ...because it would be a highrise and in the city limits.

One day I might get why having a government building in a drab high rise is important, but the offices are already in city limits. That a several story building will be built there is without question, still don't see why this is the best location for county offices.

[Mussins]

Well at least we do have one tidbit of information to report as FACT and no longer speculation:

It seems that the developers of Magnolia Park Town Center aggressively pursued Nordstrom's (God bless their hearts for trying for us!) for the site but Nordstrom's stated that Greenville was just too small of a market for them to move into right now. Oh well.

Ok maybe this is a stupid question.....but is there a way to tell they developers who we would like to see there on a retail front? Nordstrom's would be great, but it doesn't sound like that is going to work....

[g-man430]

One day I might get why having a government building in a drab high rise is important, but the offices are already in city limits. That a several story building will be built there is without question, still don't see why this is the best location for county offices.

Obviously Woodruff Road isn't the best location for the county offices, but no developer wants to build a tower downtown to put the county offices in like vicupstate said.

Ok maybe this is a stupid question.....but is there a way to tell they developers who we would like to see there on a retail front? Nordstrom's would be great, but it doesn't sound like that is going to work....

Nope.

[linkerjpatrick]

Here's a way to combine ideas, Move the government offices to a tower on Paris Mountain. They can enter via a new tunnel at the base and take an elevator from the parking garage inside the mountain. they would be like park rangers keeping an eyes on the county below!

[breed]

Do you not think that Verdae's projected build out has any influence over the Magnolia site? What's its 5 and 10 year build out population? Isnt' the 20 yr build out around 10,000? I would argue that Verdae has more pull on the tennants there than the one government building. I'd also like to think that Greenville will make efforts to tie in Magnolia and Verdae with new roads, developments and maybe transit if they can ever get GTA up and running full steam again.

I think Verdae has little impact on the site right now, at least not directly. It may make the site better from an investment standpoint, but whatever locates there now needs to make the numbers work right now, not 5, 10, or 20 years down the road. I think right now, a government building has more direct impact on the development of the site than Verdae.

[GvilleSC]

I'd say that the highest grossing theater in the state has the most pull on this development right now. More so than the county govt.

[vicupstate]

Thats a good idea. They need to do that anyway.

I don't see making the traffic worse on Woodruff Rd as a minor problem, but thats just me. Government doesn't pay taxes, so that whole building will not generate anything. The County Square site will generate more revenue though.

The added presence of the county work force raises the value of the ENTIRE project. Retailers that would not otherwise be interested, are now showing interest in the project.

One day I might get why having a government building in a drab high rise is important, but the offices are already in city limits. That a several story building will be built there is without question, still don't see why this is the best location for county offices.

There is no guarantee at all that a several story building will go there, if the county doesn't. You say the building is drab, have you seen a rendering? Obviously high rises are impressive structures, or there would be fewer of them, because they are pretty expensive to build.

No one said it was the BEST location, only that it is the best of the currently available CHOICES. County Square is very expensive to maintain and is nearing the end of it's useful life. To build it elsewhere would likely require a tax increase. The Magnolia Plaza option would not. Not to mention, County Square looks like something you would see in Union or Cherokee County.

[g-man430]

^^^I agree 100% with that statement. I also hope they move county square over to Woodruff Road.

Edited March 6, 2007 by g-man430

[Spartan]

Magnolia Park is pretty centrally located for the population in the county. What's the problem with making it centralized in addition to adding some good exposure for the city with a highrise at the intersection of two important interstates? I like the move.

That is true. Its also more centrally located for the bulk of the population in Greenville County. I won't argue against that But, I think that there are other locations that are also centrally located that could be more beneficial. Laurens Rd, or even a site on South Pleasantburg somewhere would be more ideal, simply because you won't be putting MORE workers on an already congested road. What does that say about your planning efforts? To me it sounds like government signing off on its own sprawl.

As for Magnolia itself, if the success of that site depends on 1,000 lowly government workers, then that site is doomed for failure. The workers themselves may keep a few restaurants futher in the black, but the sheer volume of traffic that is on Woodruff Road already and the demand for the stores that you guys claim will be going in there will cement this project's success. I think that the developer knows the value of the County Square site. Anything he puts there will be worth far more than any costs associated with the construction of a new highrise. He's getting one hell of a steal if this goes through.

^^^I agree 100% with that statement. I also hope they move county square over to Woodruff Road.

Why does it matter to you, since you don't live in Greenville County? For that matter, why don't you post on Anderson topics more frequently, since that is the county you claim? I ask these questions rhetorically, of course. I'm all for everyone having opinions gman, but yours are by far the least consistent on this forum. You literally speak in both directions at once and then throw in some other new ones, which dilutes your own credibility. I'm growing tired of it.

[crescentmoon]

<< I'm all for everyone having opinions gman, but yours are by far the least consistent on this forum. You literally speak in both directions at once and then throw in some other new ones, which dilutes your own credibility. I'm growing tired of it.>>

From your post to god's ear.

This board has become a place where self promotion and post count seem to have taken center court.

[vicupstate]

As for Magnolia itself, if the success of that site depends on 1,000 lowly government workers, then that site is doomed for failure. The workers themselves may keep a few restaurants futher in the black, but the sheer volume of traffic that is on Woodruff Road already and the demand for the stores that you guys claim will be going in there will cement this project's success. I think that the developer knows the value of the County Square site. Anything he puts there will be worth far more than any costs associated with the construction of a new highrise. He's getting one hell of a steal if this goes through.

As has been stated before at length in this forum, the addition of the workers does not "make" the site, it merely enhances it enough to attract a different level of leasing client. This site could work as a simple Power Center, which would still add traffic. At least this way, buildings are going up as well as out, and uses are being mixed instead of segregation of uses, which is true sprawl.

As for the developer, spending $10 million or so for a new buiding isn't exactly thief. And I sure a hell hope he puts something at County Square that is worth money, because it will be adding jobs, services and taxes. You can call it a steal, but I prefer to call it a win-win.