Sprindale Minor League Sports Complex and Minor League Baseball Stadium

[strmchsr77]

Is there a certain reason you'd prefer it in Fayetteville?

As long as it's in the area then it's fine with me.

It just seems like the current news (excluding KNWA) seem to focus alot on Ft. Smith. NWA should be able to support their own news stations. KNWA seems to be doing fine. In saying Fayetteville, I guess I should have said NWA.

[CellarDoor135]

It just seems like the current news (excluding KNWA) seem to focus alot on Ft. Smith. NWA should be able to support their own news stations. KNWA seems to be doing fine. In saying Fayetteville, I guess I should have said NWA.

I have a feeling channel 5 will stay in Fort Smith. They really have a base down there and unlike KNWA or 40/29 they really have never updated any of their studios or cast. They don't seem like they are trying to break into the market up here. I mean obviously the news stations are going to have to move out of Fort Smith at some point. Would that not be logical to say?

[Aporkalypse]

I have a feeling channel 5 will stay in Fort Smith. They really have a base down there and unlike KNWA or 40/29 they really have never updated any of their studios or cast. They don't seem like they are trying to break into the market up here. I mean obviously the news stations are going to have to move out of Fort Smith at some point. Would that not be logical to say?

I wonder how much rural areas in Eastern OK, Western AR, and East of Ft Smith along I-40 (like Alma, Ozark, etc) play into the area's TV coverage? Those areas tend to identify with Ft Smith.

[Mith242]

Is there a certain reason you'd prefer it in Fayetteville?

As long as it's in the area then it's fine with me.

Yeah I certainly wouldn't mind having one located in Benton County either. No offense to Ft Smith but I'd rather see more of what's going on in Benton County than the river valley.

I have a feeling channel 5 will stay in Fort Smith. They really have a base down there and unlike KNWA or 40/29 they really have never updated any of their studios or cast. They don't seem like they are trying to break into the market up here. I mean obviously the news stations are going to have to move out of Fort Smith at some point. Would that not be logical to say?

You'd think someone would eventually move. Considering how much population is in NWA compared to Ft Smith. But so far only one has and to be honest it had the least to lose by moving compared to the others.

I wonder how much rural areas in Eastern OK, Western AR, and East of Ft Smith along I-40 (like Alma, Ozark, etc) play into the area's TV coverage? Those areas tend to identify with Ft Smith.

That is true, the areas outside of Ft Smith do play into this as well. But you'd think with the way growth is up here in NWA that surely another station will eventually move because the population here will be more than the rest of the viewing area.

[KJW]

Yeah I certainly wouldn't mind having one located in Benton County either. No offense to Ft Smith but I'd rather see more of what's going on in Benton County than the river valley.

You'd think someone would eventually move. Considering how much population is in NWA compared to Ft Smith. But so far only one has and to be honest it had the least to lose by moving compared to the others.

That is true, the areas outside of Ft Smith do play into this as well. But you'd think with the way growth is up here in NWA that surely another station will eventually move because the population here will be more than the rest of the viewing area.

Channel 5 was the first television station in Fort Smith/northwest Arkansas...I'm fairly certain they'll be the last to leave FSM. Remember, Fort Smith has been Arkansas' second largest city for awhile, so there would be understandable reticence for some media outlets to move their presence from there.

Here is the current Fort Smith/Fayetteville/Rogers DMA...again, we're seeing unusual things happening up in this metro area so who knows what that map might look like in 10 years? (For instance, McDonald County, MO is now in the Joplin MO/Pittsburg KS DMA (as Benton County used to be) but is now officially part of the Fayetteville/Rogers metropolitan statistical area.) Note how the Joplin, Springfield and Tulsa DMAs currently bump up against Benton County...again, that's quite unusual.

[Mith242]

Channel 5 was the first television station in Fort Smith/northwest Arkansas...I'm fairly certain they'll be the last to leave FSM. Remember, Fort Smith has been Arkansas' second largest city for awhile, so there would be understandable reticence for some media outlets to move their presence from there.

Here is the current Fort Smith/Fayetteville/Rogers DMA...again, we're seeing unusual things happening up in this metro area so who knows what that map might look like in 10 years? (For instance, McDonald County, MO is now in the Joplin MO/Pittsburg KS DMA (as Benton County used to be) but is now officially part of the Fayetteville/Rogers metropolitan statistical area.) Note how the Joplin, Springfield and Tulsa DMAs currently bump up against Benton County...again, that's quite unusual.

Yeah I certainly don't see every station leaving Ft Smith. No matter what I would expect one station to stay down there. That would be a different experiance, being more associated with Joplin than Ft Smith. But the Ft Smith connection will always probably be there because we're both in the same state.

[KJW]

Yeah I certainly don't see every station leaving Ft Smith. No matter what I would expect one station to stay down there. That would be a different experiance, being more associated with Joplin than Ft Smith. But the Ft Smith connection will always probably be there because we're both in the same state.

Mith,

If growth continues to the NWA metro area up into an eventual seven figure population, I think there could be textbooks written about this area someday.

Looking at the Fort Smith/Fayetteville DMA map, it's evident where the center of the media coverage has been structured for the past few decades, and why not?. Look at how the population center has shifted to the far north of the area. At times Polk (Mena), Johnson (Clarksville) and Latimer (Wilburton, OK) counties have been in this DMA as well. I question whether there are even as many as five other American DMAs in modern times which have had as profound a population/economic shift from the center to the periphery the way this market has.

[mcheiss]

Mith,

If growth continues to the NWA metro area up into an eventual seven figure population, I think there could be textbooks written about this area someday.

What do you mean by this?

[masons_dad1]

If growth continues to the NWA metro area up into an eventual seven figure population, I think there could be textbooks written about this area someday.

I'm thinking that it would be quite a miracle for NWA to reach seven figures... even if we continue to grow by 1,000 people per month it would take over 50 years to reach a million people. How is that possible with no new economic development in NWA? The only job growth in NWA is by the same employers who have been the only economic growth in NWA for 50 years. People need to realize that if it wasn't for all this growth in NWA that this area would still be 50 years behind the rest of the country. Even without the most recent growth NWA should've had a baseball team 10 years ago.

[KJW]

I'm thinking that it would be quite a miracle for NWA to reach seven figures... even if we continue to grow by 1,000 people per month it would take over 50 years to reach a million people. How is that possible with no new economic development in NWA? The only job growth in NWA is by the same employers who have been the only economic growth in NWA for 50 years. People need to realize that if it wasn't for all this growth in NWA that this area would still be 50 years behind the rest of the country. Even without the most recent growth NWA should've had a baseball team 10 years ago.

Mcheiss...BEnton and Washington counties now combined have more population than Pulaski County/Little Rock. (Yes, that's not taking into account Faulkner County (Conway), Saline County (Benton/Bryant) or the other 3-4 lesser populated counties in the Little Rock metro area. It's not taking into account the other counties in the NWA one as well.)

Look at that DMA map of the Fort Smith / Fayetteville area again. Here's a little history...Channel 5 (CBS) was the first station in the area, then came KHBS (ABC, 40/29) and then what was called KPOM (NBC, 24). I don't know enough about televsion history to give exact dates, but notice how 5 is the only VHF (Very High Frequency channels 1-13 on what used to be a television "dial") station, while KHBS and KPOM are "Us" (Ultra High Frequencies, 14+ on the old "secondary" dial).

Now, cable has changed a lot of this (as has the decline in the quality of network news coverage, which merit a couple of different threads on different boards, i.e. political/social issue ones). However, the facts in the paragraphs above tell me the ABC and NBC affiliates were relative late comers to the market as there was a point in time when VHF licenses became much more if not nearly impossible to obtain.

Bottom line...for a long time these two stations, KPOM in particular, brought up the rear in the ratings. Channel 5 was the kingpin. In the mid 80s, KHBS (which was about to have its "KHOG" NWA satellite pick up strength above the Boston Mountains) started getting competitive with KFSM. Benton County either was about to be picked up or had just been so from the Joplin-Pittsburg DMA. Joplin stations are still on Benton County cable, as is Tulsa's Channel 8. I believe 8 (KTUL, an ABC affiliate) is on Washington County cable systems, too, as is Springfield, MO's Channel 10 (KOLR, which is CBS).

Now, back to that FSM/FAY DMA map.

Where we now sit, in 2006, the NBC affiliate which used to bring up the rear of the local TV ratings (KNWA, which pulled its studio out of Fort Smith) is, as has been discussed on this board, rapidly becoming the dominant station in northwest Arkansas. Channel 5 (who have kept for a couple of decades their studio at the Northwest Arkansas mall) is almost an afterthought...looking at their newscasts, I'm surprised at how almost primitive (I hate to use that word) they look. 5 is and has been owned by the New York Times, for crying out loud...they've had some great personnel there, but they ought to have a better sense of style.

McDonald County Missouri, in the Joplin / Pittsburg market and the Rand McNally-defined Kansas City major trading area, has just been added to the Fayetteville/Bentonville metro area. Barry County, Missouri, in the Springfield DMA and the RMcN defined St. Louis major trading area, has entered into a compact of sorts (with McDonald and Benton Counties) for development. Delaware County, OK, in the Tulsa DMA and major trading area, has suburbs of Siloam Springs, and an apparent number of NWA area commuters even from Grove in that county's northern end (and Grove, Oklahoma, about 5 miles west of the McDonald County border with a school district whose limits border those of Gravette, AR, is a different story altogether).

If this area keeps growing the way some predict (and I've heard the 1,000,000+ metro population prediction almost as much as I've heard the Disney rumors) this metro area could take possibly three counties from three different DMAs and major trading areas.

That's not happened very often in American history. Then again, only three cities in American history have ever been home to Fortune 1 companies (Detroit/GM, Houston/ExxonMobil and Bentonville/Wal-Mart...and Houston's now back on top again with Bentonville holding #2). If NWA grows as some say, there will be many elsewhere who will ask "How could this have happened?"

Hence, my belief that textbooks could be written about the growth and economics of this region some day.

Sorry for the long response.

[KJW]

Mcheiss...BEnton and Washington counties now combined have more population than Pulaski County/Little Rock. (Yes, that's not taking into account Faulkner County (Conway), Saline County (Benton/Bryant) or the other 3-4 lesser populated counties in the Little Rock metro area. It's not taking into account the other counties in the NWA one as well.)

Look at that DMA map of the Fort Smith / Fayetteville area again. Here's a little history...Channel 5 (CBS) was the first station in the area, then came KHBS (ABC, 40/29) and then what was called KPOM (NBC, 24). I don't know enough about televsion history to give exact dates, but notice how 5 is the only VHF (Very High Frequency channels 1-13 on what used to be a television "dial") station, while KHBS and KPOM are "Us" (Ultra High Frequencies, 14+ on the old "secondary" dial).

Now, cable has changed a lot of this (as has the decline in the quality of network news coverage, which merit a couple of different threads on different boards, i.e. political/social issue ones). However, the facts in the paragraphs above tell me the ABC and NBC affiliates were relative late comers to the market as there was a point in time when VHF licenses became much more if not nearly impossible to obtain. It also suggests that this market was, at least at one point, not that significant...note how in pretty much all of the major television cities/markets (even in cities such as Little Rock, Springfield and Shreveport) all of the old "Big 3" network stations have VHF affiliates, while in lesser populated ones (i.e. Jonesboro) there are only 1 or 2 VHF stations.

Bottom line...for a long time these two stations, KPOM in particular, brought up the rear in the ratings. Channel 5 was the kingpin. In the mid 80s, KHBS (which was about to have its "KHOG" NWA satellite pick up strength above the Boston Mountains) started getting competitive with KFSM. Benton County either was about to be picked up or had just been so from the Joplin-Pittsburg DMA. Joplin stations are still on Benton County cable, as is Tulsa's Channel 8. I believe 8 (KTUL, an ABC affiliate) is on Washington County cable systems, too, as is Springfield, MO's Channel 10 (KOLR, which is CBS).

Now, back to that FSM/FAY DMA map.

Where we now sit, in 2006, the NBC affiliate which used to bring up the rear of the local TV ratings (KNWA, which pulled its studio out of Fort Smith) is, as has been discussed on this board, rapidly becoming the dominant station in northwest Arkansas. Channel 5 (who have kept for a couple of decades their studio at the Northwest Arkansas mall) is almost an afterthought...looking at their newscasts, I'm surprised at how almost primitive (I hate to use that word) they look. 5 is and has been owned by the New York Times, for crying out loud...they've had some great personnel there, but they ought to have a better sense of style.

Also of significance...the three stations are all owned by large media "conglomerates". KFSM's ownership hasn't changed in decades. However, KHBS/KHOG, once the property of Fort Smith-based Hernreich Media (Nancy Hernreich was a Bill Clinton confidant at one point, I believe) is now owned by Hearst/Argyle. KNWA nee KPOM, once owned by the Griffin (Grocery) Company out of Van Buren, is now held by Irving, TX based-Nexstar, "Big TV" if there ever was such an organization.

Meanwhile, McDonald County Missouri, in the Joplin / Pittsburg market and the Rand McNally-defined Kansas City major trading area, has just been added to the Fayetteville/Bentonville metro area. Barry County, Missouri, in the Springfield DMA and the RMcN defined St. Louis major trading area, has entered into a compact of sorts (with McDonald and Benton Counties) for development. Delaware County, OK, in the Tulsa DMA and major trading area, has suburbs of Siloam Springs, and an apparent number of NWA area commuters even from Grove in that county's northern end (and Grove, Oklahoma, about 5 miles west of the McDonald County border with a school district whose limits border those of Gravette, AR, is a different story altogether).

If this area keeps growing the way some predict (and I've heard the 1,000,000+ metro population prediction almost as much as I've heard the Disney rumors) this metro area could take possibly three counties from three different DMAs and major trading areas. And if so, it will have completely shifted the balance of media and buying power (so critical in TV advertising) from the center of its own DMA to the far northern limits of it. (Not an easy feat, I would think, in a television market which stretches about 150 miles from north to south.)

That's not happened very often in American history. Then again, only three cities in American history have ever been home to Fortune 1 companies (Detroit/GM, Houston/ExxonMobil and Bentonville/Wal-Mart...and Houston's now back on top again with Bentonville holding #2). If NWA grows as some say, there will be many elsewhere who will ask "How could this have happened?"

Hence, my belief that textbooks could be written about the growth and economics of this region some day.

Sorry for the long response.

[Mith242]

Interesting info, some of it I wasn't sure about since I spent part of my life in southern Arkansas.

[skirby]

That's not happened very often in American history. Then again, only three cities in American history have ever been home to Fortune 1 companies (Detroit/GM, Houston/ExxonMobil and Bentonville/Wal-Mart...and Houston's now back on top again with Bentonville holding #2). If NWA grows as some say, there will be many elsewhere who will ask "How could this have happened?"

I think the people in Irving, Texas would not agree with your locaton of ExxonMobil.

[KJW]

I think the people in Irving, Texas would not agree with your locaton of ExxonMobil.

skirby...thanks. I thought it was Houston.

[mcheiss]

IMO,

NWA is nothing special than any other growth in the U.S. Sure we have high growth rates, but think about it, Wal-Mart's not going to be able to keep providing jobs for the area. With the low enough unemployment rate, jobs are already hard enough to find. I can't see NWA reaching over a Million in 50 years, there's just nothing else in the economy. If another large Fortune Company came, or something else, may'be just may'be.

[masons_dad1]

IMO,

NWA is nothing special than any other growth in the U.S. Sure we have high growth rates, but think about it, Wal-Mart's not going to be able to keep providing jobs for the area. With the low enough unemployment rate, jobs are already hard enough to find. I can't see NWA reaching over a Million in 50 years, there's just nothing else in the economy. If another large Fortune Company came, or something else, may'be just may'be.

Isn't that what I just said? So I guess I agree. Anyway, I don't see Arkansas doing much of anything to bring large corporations to Arkansas and even if they do they won't be promoting NWA. They'd rather see economic growth in poverty stricken areas in Arkansas.

I'm thinking that it would be quite a miracle for NWA to reach seven figures... even if we continue to grow by 1,000 people per month it would take over 50 years to reach a million people. How is that possible with no new economic development in NWA? The only job growth in NWA is by the same employers who have been the only economic growth in NWA for 50 years. People need to realize that if it wasn't for all this growth in NWA that this area would still be 50 years behind the rest of the country. Even without the most recent growth NWA should've had a baseball team 10 years ago.

[Mith242]

I saw a bit of criticism on the new baseball stadium in the editorial of the Northwest Arkansas Times today. The person felt the stadium was rather expensive for what we're getting in the stadium. He also questioned the fact of building it when there isn't any real garuantee of getting a Texas League team. Although I wonder if this hasn't been made official. The team obviously wouldn't want to publicize this and run off the fans in it's current city while it's waiting for this facility to be built in Springdale. But you would hope that everyone is actually going on something here more than speculation. Sometime later the cost of the stadium is supposed to come out. It's still possible that it could come in under the $46 Mil figure that's been mentioned.

[KJW]

...I can't see NWA reaching over a Million in 50 years, there's just nothing else in the economy. ...

I can.

I still think Tyson, J.B. Hunt, the U of A and the amenities for retirees in the area (Detroit and D/FW are the other two American cities that, like us, have had a Fortune 1 company...big retirement/tourist destinations those) have this area moving toward a "critical mass" that has all sorts of population possibilities.

I don't have any hard evidence for this, just a gut feeling that's worthless in this discussion. But things happening, like arenas and airports in the middle of nowhere, rather than what's currently "downtown", make me wonder what's ahead...or rather, what will happen if the area between Pea Ridge and Siloam Springs fills into what would be a HUGE area to densely populate.

[masons_dad1]

I can.

I still think Tyson, J.B. Hunt, the U of A and the amenities for retirees in the area (Detroit and D/FW are the other two American cities that, like us, have had a Fortune 1 company...big retirement/tourist destinations those) have this area moving toward a "critical mass" that has all sorts of population possibilities.

I don't have any hard evidence for this, just a gut feeling that's worthless in this discussion. But things happening, like arenas and airports in the middle of nowhere, rather than what's currently "downtown", make me wonder what's ahead...or rather, what will happen if the area between Pea Ridge and Siloam Springs fills into what would be a HUGE area to densely populate.

Tyson is on shaky ground and I could see a cutback in labor force in the near future. J.B. Hunt is a trucking company and there's a limit to local jobs the company will add to the region. The U of A, hospitals, banks, and expanding service sector will add several thousand jobs over the next few decades. Wal-Mart isn't growing fast enough to make up the remaining hundreds of thousands of jobs needed to help the NWA metro reach a million population. Adding half a million retirees to our population isn't going to help our economic development much as retirees don't pay income tax. Amenities for retirees aren't what's needed in NWA to help NWA reach a million population.

NWA Regional Airport isn't that big of a deal, in fact it's pretty small for a regional airport and all the talk about arenas and professional sports teams is just that... talk. Look what happened to NWA's very first professional sports team, the Arkansas All-Stars. Not a very inspiring outlook for our professional sports future.

I wouldn't count on much density outside of the downtown areas as most of the homes being built in west Bentonville are still on large lots with very few medium density developments such as apartments being built in that area. The area between Pea Ridge and Siloam Springs is hardly densely populated, in fact it's very rural, so I find it hard to believe that area will ever become as densely populated as Fayetteville, Springdale or Rogers.

[razorbackfan]

Tyson is on shaky ground and I could see a cutback in labor force in the near future. J.B. Hunt is a trucking company and there's a limit to local jobs the company will add to the region. The U of A, hospitals, banks, and expanding service sector will add several thousand jobs over the next few decades. Wal-Mart isn't growing fast enough to make up the remaining hundreds of thousands of jobs needed to help the NWA metro reach a million population. Adding half a million retirees to our population isn't going to help our economic development much as retirees don't pay income tax. Amenities for retirees aren't what's needed in NWA to help NWA reach a million population.

NWA Regional Airport isn't that big of a deal, in fact it's pretty small for a regional airport and all the talk about arenas and professional sports teams is just that... talk. Look what happened to NWA's very first professional sports team, the Arkansas All-Stars. Not a very inspiring outlook for our professional sports future.

I wouldn't count on much density outside of the downtown areas as most of the homes being built in west Bentonville are still on large lots with very few medium density developments such as apartments being built in that area. The area between Pea Ridge and Siloam Springs is hardly densely populated, in fact it's very rural, so I find it hard to believe that area will ever become as densely populated as Fayetteville, Springdale or Rogers.

As far as the Tyson being on shaky grounds...I couldn't disagree more. Yeah they had a rough quarter last quarter, but in 3 months they will open another 4 story tower at their HQ in springdale making room for about another 700-800 employees, and roughly half of them will move into this building from other buildings in NWA while the other half will move from areas of Texas and South Dakota. Tyson employees 170,000 world wide and I think they will continue to bring more people to NWA. As far as Wal-Mart, they may not be bring a lot of people to NWA but their vendors are bringing people by the thousands.

What are you talking about when you say "The area between Pea Ridge and Siloam Springs is hardly densel populated"?? These two towns are roughly 50 miles apart with cities such as Rogers, and Springdale between them...sorry but that comment makes no sense to me.

[masons_dad1]

As far as the Tyson being on shaky grounds...I couldn't disagree more. Yeah they had a rough quarter last quarter, but in 3 months they will open another 4 story tower at their HQ in springdale making room for about another 700-800 employees, and roughly half of them will move into this building from other buildings in NWA while the other half will move from areas of Texas and South Dakota. Tyson employees 170,000 world wide and I think they will continue to bring more people to NWA. As far as Wal-Mart, they may not be bring a lot of people to NWA but their vendors are bringing people by the thousands.

What are you talking about when you say "The area between Pea Ridge and Siloam Springs is hardly densel populated"?? These two towns are roughly 50 miles apart with cities such as Rogers, and Springdale between them...sorry but that comment makes no sense to me.

Tyson had a rough quarter last quarter? Let me elaborate:

"Tyson Foods

[mcheiss]

I don't have any hard evidence for this, just a gut feeling that's worthless in this discussion. But things happening, like arenas and airports in the middle of nowhere, rather than what's currently "downtown", make me wonder what's ahead...or rather, what will happen if the area between Pea Ridge and Siloam Springs fills into what would be a HUGE area to densely populate.

Most of these current developments that NWA is undertaking like new malls, arena's, etc. have been present in metro's the same size and smaller for 20 or so years. NWA is just catching up to the rest of the nation. The same can be said with Starbucks, we just got our first one only a few years ago. NWA will have a modest growth rate after about 10 years when this bubble fills. I'd like to think that NWA will have a growth rate 10+ years from now much like what the Little Rock MSA is having.

[KJW]

It'z goin' to da votazzzzzz! (English subhead: As well it should be.)

[Mith242]

You know I haven't heard too much opinion of the whole thing from anyone in Springdale. I wonder if they'll vote for this. $50 Mil is quite a bit and it's not going to be improving any roads or anything that I could see some people arguing that roads are what the city should focus more on. Maybe some of the local stations will have more about this as July 11th gets closer.

[KJW]

Another newspaper-to-KNWA report...last night on Channel 24 it was reported that Springdale city officials are confident they will have a letter of intent (I think that's the phrase they used) from a baseball team to move to that city BEFORE the July elections this year.

However, a spokesman for the Wichita Wranglers (the team thought to be looking) denied that they have been in any type of negotiations.

THIS will make for an interesting offseason in NWA, friends...