Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[baobabs727]

2 hours ago, Urbanlooker said:

Yes the US is vast and spread out, except for as you pointed out on the coasts. So why can't there be good transit on the coasts? I lived in the middle of farmland while in Europe with just a, by US standards, small neighborhood of houses and yet there were 3 bus stops and a train station within a 15min walk of my house. 

Never built off train infrastructure the US was literally industrialized and built off of trains. There was a time when the US had the most extensive passenger train network in the world. In fact most cities even had very extensive trolley networks. However, once the car industry became wide spread they lobbied for more and more car infrastructure. This in turn led to most trolley networks being paved over and basically all of the passenger train network becoming part of the freight system.

They don't need as many cars in Europe because they've purposely built up their infrastructure in such a way to not require cars. 

Indeed. Now surely we must collectively fall to our fat, ugly American knees in complete and utter admiration and awe of our vastly more evolved human counterparts in Europe...and, no doubt, beyond.

[urbanlife]

On 1/10/2024 at 9:03 AM, baobabs727 said:

1)  That's what I thought. Especially relative to your items 2a and 2b (parentheticals related to your 2nd example).  Reflexively, I recoil when confronted with most administrative behavioral economic policies.  Absolutely repulsive. 

2)  I've been all over Europe, and while I always enjoy myself there, I'm also always quite content to return to the US. (No, I have no desire to move to Paris, Rome, Vienna or Prague...thank you very much. And yes, I say this despite the fact that I speak multiple languages.)   

3)  Cars are an American obsession (and some would argue uniquely so in terms of the breadth, depth and fervency of our car culture) made possible in large part by the relative vastness of this country.  That's not gonna change outside of NYC. Let's get real.

What about Copenhagen, Gothenburg, Anterpen, or Lyon? I get not wanting in the live in the large cities in Europe just like most don't want to live in large cities in the US, but what about the mid sized cities that are more comparable to Virginia Beach and the cities in Hampton Roads? The US can be both vast and still have our cities be human scale rather than car centric.

[mintscraft56]

7 hours ago, urbanlife said:

What about Copenhagen, Gothenburg, Anterpen, or Lyon? I get not wanting in the live in the large cities in Europe just like most don't want to live in large cities in the US, but what about the mid sized cities that are more comparable to Virginia Beach and the cities in Hampton Roads? The US can be both vast and still have our cities be human scale rather than car centric.

Well we are running into problems here. If you want people in your city, then you best provide for their cars. 

Here in the US, its obvious cars are popular, there are many cities that offer service and space for your car. If your city does not offer space for these cars, then the people will just flock to one of the hundreds of cities where they do offer them. 

Thats where we run into trouble. People dont like change, and the cities want money and more people to be successful. So instead of adjusting city development for a better human life, they adjust to a "popular" style of city development to attract the majority of people with cars.

Demanding change is nice, but understanding why we dont change lets you think more about the problem rather than some magical solution you think will work because its worked in other countries before. 

Remember what happened when they tried to ban cars Downtown on granby? "Granby mall" as it was known? Hell, I wasn't even alive till 30 years after it and even I know that didnt end up well. It was a nice idea, but the lack of fast transportation from block to block kinda killed the area for a bit, which is why its obviously not around anymore. 

Dont get me wrong. I aint defending this car centric empire American cities can be, but im defending the common sense of WHY things are the way they are and WHY magical solutions or suggestions to just simpily "Be like europe" isint going to work, even when we have tried. 

[urbanlife]

17 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

Well we are running into problems here. If you want people in your city, then you best provide for their cars. 

Here in the US, its obvious cars are popular, there are many cities that offer service and space for your car. If your city does not offer space for these cars, then the people will just flock to one of the hundreds of cities where they do offer them. 

Thats where we run into trouble. People dont like change, and the cities want money and more people to be successful. So instead of adjusting city development for a better human life, they adjust to a "popular" style of city development to attract the majority of people with cars.

Demanding change is nice, but understanding why we dont change lets you think more about the problem rather than some magical solution you think will work because its worked in other countries before. 

Remember what happened when they tried to ban cars Downtown on granby? "Granby mall" as it was known? Hell, I wasn't even alive till 30 years after it and even I know that didnt end up well. It was a nice idea, but the lack of fast transportation from block to block kinda killed the area for a bit, which is why its obviously not around anymore. 

Dont get me wrong. I aint defending this car centric empire American cities can be, but im defending the common sense of WHY things are the way they are and WHY magical solutions or suggestions to just simpily "Be like europe" isint going to work, even when we have tried. 

Thanks for bringing up the Granby Mall with what not to do. What is wrong with that photo? Easy, there is zero housing in that photo. Europe makes pedestrian streets work because the commercial corridor is surrounded with dense housing, and often times a transit hub. Granby St doesn't need cars, it needs people.

[Urbanlooker]

This is a Youtuber that I watch from time to time. In this video he pairs US cities that have a better potential for high speed rail than Spain's Madrid>Valencia route. There are 56 cities that make the list and HR>DC breaks into it.  

https://youtu.be/wE5G1kTndI4?si=pnNERGj43ViA8t0S

[ONCE1stBlvd]

I rode the train today from Military Hwy, downtown and I was reminded how connected the 7 cities is to our "northeast corridor."  Two, I repeat TWO amtrak stations are located within our perimeter.  YES! 

[urbanvb]

Light rail growth is slowly coming back since the pandemic.

https://www.pilotonline.com/2024/02/06/ridership-on-the-tide-has-not-bounced-back-to-pre-pandemic-levels-but-continues-growth/

Edited February 7 by urbanvb

[Urbanlooker]

IMO weither the Military development happens or not the extension through there should get built. Shoot it should go all the way to the airport at least... make it part of the renovations. 

[ONCE1stBlvd]

5 hours ago, Urbanlooker said:

IMO weither the Military development happens or not the extension through there should get built. Shoot it should go all the way to the airport at least... make it part of the renovations. 

I feel you!  As much as I prefer a western alignment the east side of the city would produce returns sooner.  I'd like to see a priority on the east end(yes!  I'm making that a thing, seeing as how divided development approaches are from east to west Norfolk) but an active plan on incorporating the the more mature and urban west end of Norfolk into the light rail line.   

[baobabs727]

Norfolk had the fourth busiest Amtrak station in the "Southeast" last year.   

https://media.amtrak.com/2024/02/virginia-and-north-carolina-are-home-to-the-busiest-amtrak-stations-in-the-southeast/

 

[Arctic_Tern]

6 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Norfolk had the fourth busiest Amtrak station in the "Southeast" last year.   

https://media.amtrak.com/2024/02/virginia-and-north-carolina-are-home-to-the-busiest-amtrak-stations-in-the-southeast/

 

That's pretty insane considering the only route that goes through here is the 3x daily NEC train. 

[Urbanlooker]

Imagine what train numbers would look like if we had a route to the South as well. 

[zeppelin14]

Norfolk really should have a route south to Raleigh where it then forks to Charlotte and Atlanta one way and Jacksonville and Miami the other.

[Arctic_Tern]

Heck, even just an hourly interurban to Richmond would help a ton

[BFG]

1 hour ago, zeppelin14 said:

Norfolk really should have a route south to Raleigh where it then forks to Charlotte and Atlanta one way and Jacksonville and Miami the other.

I will never understand how this area isn't more proactive about transportation, given we're a cul-de-sac off 95. We should be going out of our way to connect ourselves to other cities and make ourselves look more attractive and accessible.

[ONCE1stBlvd]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6HCW2KiIkN/?igsh=MWVpdXd0eWd5NDFxYQ==

I know this is a study about Chesapeake but considering the idea was initially about connecting the Tide with Chesapeake, I'm curious your thoughts on it

[BFG]

I'm in Greenbrier. If they could get this to go to the airport, NSU/ODU, and downtown, it would be a vast improvement and I'd use it in a heartbeat.

Bonus points if they could get it to Town Center and the Beach without the NIMBYs complaining.

[HRVA]

More details on the BRT study and opportunity to provide feedback. I know some folks working on this and they’re desperate to get good feedback so please take a couple minutes to do so. 
https://www.connectingchesapeake.com/blog/spring2024?

[baobabs727]

All those maps were a bit much... tedious, difficult to look at / comprehend. Even I lost patience. Just think about what the average person's going to do.  If extremely interested parties lose patience just think about how the average Joe is going to react.  

[Qdeathstar]

Yea, they should have reduced the options on their own to like the top 10 routed and then asked for input. 

[ONCE1stBlvd]

https://linktr.ee/tidewater_transit

Well, well, well....... what do we have here????

guerilla tactics

[KJHburg]

the Tide lightrail today.