PROPOSED: Utopia Project

[SOCOM]

Utopia is NOT going to attract 12 million people per year. Period.That's more than Disneyworld, Disneyland, and every other theme park in the world. I have nothing more to add to this subject anymore. All I can say is that the environmentalists are prepared to take action when and if the full scope of his plans really come out...Count on me to help you out Damus!

It probably won't, but who cares. Instead of trying to predict the number of tourists, we need to focus on the concerns we all have been expressing if this thing becomes a success, whether that's 3 million people or 12 million people per year. Either way, it's going to have an impact on Preston and the surrounding communities.

[damus]

It probably won't, but who cares. Instead of trying to predict the number of tourists, we need to focus on the concerns we all have been expressing if this thing becomes a success, whether that's 3 million people or 12 million people per year. Either way, it's going to have an impact on Preston and the surrounding communities.

Well... I'm sure they'd go out of business with 3 million vistors per year. I heard that the arts college expectations are extremely unrealistic. Say, think 50 students per year to start a new arts school rather than 1,500. If you look at companies like Dreamworks, which had the best talent in the business and some great movies and still went out of business, this whole project is scary simply in its potential for failure. Its potential for success is equally frightening.

[SOCOM]

Well... I'm sure they'd go out of business with 3 million vistors per year. I heard that the arts college expectations are extremely unrealistic. Say, think 50 students per year to start a new arts school rather than 1,500. If you look at companies like Dreamworks, which had the best talent in the business and some great movies and still went out of business, this whole project is scary simply in its potential for failure. Its potential for success is equally frightening.

OK replace 3 million with 6 million. I was just throwing out a random number. The point is we should be planning for success, because we all agree that a successful Utopia will cause all sorts of issues that need to be delt with.

[runawayjim]

has anyone thought of the strain on the grid? CT is already starting to get strained... a project of this size will surely require some major upgrades that the power company can't afford (they've been beotching about that for years).

also (since i've been away for a while), an arts school will attract maybe 50 students for the first few years and it won't increase much in the following years. to be frank, students aren't as interested in arts, and i definitely don't think we need another arts school. this country needs more students interested in the sciences lest we completely lose our research and development and innovation to the rest of the world. but that's another topic for discussion anyways.

i don't see the numbers that they predict. CT isn't the destination that orlando is, and that part of the state will never be like that. there's no decent beaches (not that orlando has any), no decent lakes to swim in (orlando has a few in the area), no other real attractions (orlando has a bunch with international drive, universal, all the other disney parks, etc). he compared his numbers to greater than magic kingdom... did anyone stop and think that magic kingdom gets those numbers because the people visit the other parks as well?

[damus]

has anyone thought of the strain on the grid? CT is already starting to get strained... a project of this size will surely require some major upgrades that the power company can't afford (they've been beotching about that for years).

also (since i've been away for a while), an arts school will attract maybe 50 students for the first few years and it won't increase much in the following years. to be frank, students aren't as interested in arts, and i definitely don't think we need another arts school. this country needs more students interested in the sciences lest we completely lose our research and development and innovation to the rest of the world. but that's another topic for discussion anyways.

i don't see the numbers that they predict. CT isn't the destination that orlando is, and that part of the state will never be like that. there's no decent beaches (not that orlando has any), no decent lakes to swim in (orlando has a few in the area), no other real attractions (orlando has a bunch with international drive, universal, all the other disney parks, etc). he compared his numbers to greater than magic kingdom... did anyone stop and think that magic kingdom gets those numbers because the people visit the other parks as well?

Well, Preston has recently stated it wants to create it's own public utility company. Sounds odd to me considering Joe G. told all of us "nothing would be changed" about our town. Imagine what will happen if something happens to Millstone, again, and 1 or 2 of the reactors have to be shut down, possibly for good? At the same time, there are people who want nothing to do with clean windmill energy being produced in their backyards right here in New England. The Norwich Bulletin today advocated the adoption of fuel cells around here, and cited that for a whopping 400kilowatt hours out of 30 megawatts they need, the Mohegan sun paid $2.8 million for their fuel cells. Great idea, morons.

While affordable fuel cell technology is years away, no one wants to generate power. The only thing I can do is hope I'm making good enough money down the road to be able to afford $40,000 solar panels on my roof.

[CtownMikey]

should this thread be changed to approved?

[damus]

I think that the area does hae some potential to become a tourist destination . You have two huge casions already. Add to that Utopia, which already is promoting one park, but who knows what in the future. Most of what developed in Florida was driven by the first pioneering attractions - Gatorland and Cypress Gardens brought some tourism, which attracted the Magic Kingdom (remember it was a good 10 years plus before another gate even opened), and that also brough Sea World and Universal and all the I Drive and Irlo Bronson attractions. If Utopia builds, it is a sure thing Foxwwods and Mohegan Sun will. Now, the question is how can places like Mystic and the Aquarium survive with all the tourists further up the river?

Well my main concerns have been talked to death. If I had any money (I'm only 22 and make squat, and the positions pay peanuts) I'd run for a local office. I do not have much faith in the region to do this right. I think Mystic is a tourist attraction in itself. The aquarium, Mystic Seaport, olde mystic village, etc. Mystic will probably flourish if Utopia is a success, the region will become a destination, esp. in the summer, and people will spend a day down there. Add in small family attractions like the Nautilus museum and the proposed Coast Guard in New London, and the region does have some pieces to make it a touristy area. I'm sure the "Indians" will build their "indian reservations" up into world class resorts if the area is Disneyfied by Utopia. The Mashantuckets will have something built on their 1800 acre reservation, most of which is undeveloped. They also have thousands of acres of property that hasn't been annexed.

If Utopia is a success, I am not worried about what we have ... it's what we don't have and how and where it will be built. Is the region (or state) going to build the new homes, roads, mass transit, etc in a responsible manner? Would anyone listen to me if I voiced my concerns? I think they're more concerned about getting votes than doing things right... here comes the sprawl.

should this thread be changed to approved?

No... Utopia hasn't even been given the land, much less been approved. The vote was the biggest hurdle, but they have a long road ahead of them before it's a go.

[Miesian Corners]

Maybe I missed something earlier in this thread, but so far no one has mentioned the fact that the US film industry is now second fiddle to Canada. I live in NC, once the second biggest film production state in the U.S.. When unionized labor came to the industry in NC, large production moved to Canada where everything is cheaper. How in the world will CT compete with Canada in filmmaking when less-expensive with already-built studios in North Carolina can't do it? Will there be a union pay and work rules holiday in CT?

[damus]

Maybe I missed something earlier in this thread, but so far no one has mentioned the fact that the US film industry is now second fiddle to Canada. I live in NC, once the second biggest film production state in the U.S.. When unionized labor came to the industry in NC, large production moved to Canada where everything is cheaper. How in the world will CT compete with Canada in filmmaking when less-expensive with already-built studios in North Carolina can't do it? Will there be a union pay and work rules holiday in CT?

One of Utopia's main points from the public presentations they held is that the film industry is being "outsourced" and that a lot of film makers would love to make movies "closer to home" if only there was a place to do so...

[damus]

And Canada is not getting any cheaper - it may soon be more expensive to produce in Canada then here. Plus we have the locations they want.

I disagree about this being a help to Mystic. That had been an argument for Florida, but it was often pointed out that few places outside of the Disney parks every were able to survive. They were overwhelmed, and people went to the parks instead of the museums or other attractions. Whith the exception of Wet and Wild, nothing has really succeeded long term there. So I would worry that fewer people would choose Mystic over the parks.

How's Cyprus Gardens doing? That was mentioned along with Gatorland as a precursor to Disney, there are pictures of me actually being there as a little kid, and there's a website for it still up. Gatorland also still has a website. I really don't think that Mystic will not go under, especially if there's a light rail line circling the region and a reliable bus system that loops around the Mystic attractions. There is a good chance that other large family attractions will spring up to feed off the Utopia traffic, possibly even on tribal land (to entice parents to stay at the resort and gamble while they're there). If Utopia actually does succeed, I forsee a huge tourist boom coming along. The area will need indoor attractions for the winter, and the museums (Pequot, Coast Guard, even Slater in Norwich) and the Aquarium will all have some sort of patronage that they wouldn't have had sans Utopia.

[damus]

Bulletin column discussing Utilities needed for Utopia

Someone, somewhere will need to create power plants. Big power plants. How about that nuclear plant idea in RI? For what it's worth, I forsee a major power catastrophe in the coming years if New Englanders continue to refuse to have any power plants, including clean wind mills, being built in their backyards. Plainfield recently rejected a power plant that would burn mostly junk wood from construction sites and forested wood that wasnt used for lumber. Someone needs to do something...

[damus]

Bulletin - Gentile has plans for Norwich

WHOO HOOO! Wasn't it less than three weeks ago that the Utopia supporters called me stupid for saying he has plans outside of the Hospital property. Gentile has met with Norwich's biggest downtown developer, who has taken parcels of old downtown that were torn down to make way for a route 2 expressway that never materialized and turned them into 2-4 story buildins with tons of surface parking all around them.

Utopia Studios developer Joseph Gentile didn't get into specifics Friday about his plans for Norwich, but made his intentions clear during a 90-minute, closed-door meeting with city leaders.

"I'm expecting to do great things here in Norwich," he said after his meeting in City Hall. "It's no secret that July will be three years since I first approached Norwich with respect to the (city's piece of) the Norwich Hospital property and associated developments."

Gentile has expressed interest in developing Norwich's 63 acres of the former Norwich Hospital property and areas of the downtown.

He's been working for months with marina-owner Ron Aliano on an extensive project, which he said could be unveiled as soon as next week.

I really don't get this. The Mashantuckets had an extensive master plan for the downtown area years ago and it was shot down, but I can't see the people not supporting something put forth by Utopia. The only difference I can see was while Foxwoods was an established and growing player, Utopia is a dream and in an industry that is tough to be competitive in... I hope for the sake of the region that if this stuff is all built it doesn't go belly up. Big companies have failed before in this business, Disney failed with overseas parks, Dreamworks failed to turn a profit despite having the best talent in the business on board. These guys have no track record and now we're tied to them for good. If they succed, our region will be unrecognizable; if they fail, we'll have tens of thousands of unskilled theme park workers unemployed and empty buildings all over the place.

We need something like the Council for New Urbanism around here.

[damus]

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=0c5b630b-...02-3418d78e8cb5

Gentile was in Preston Tuesday meeting with environmental officials who are completing an assessment of the contamination on the former hospital property. State Department of Public Works officials were also at the site.

[damus]

Bulletin - Norwich Hospital Advisory Committe meets with consultants

PRESTON -- The town should consider hiring full-time staff to deal with the mountains of paperwork and communications with Utopia and state officials, according to two consultants the Norwich Hospital Advisory Committee spoke with Wednesday night.

Robert Ward, who operates Strategic Insights and Creative Imagination and helped plan Universal Studios Orlando, and Frank Stanek, founder of Stanek Global Advisors and past vice president of corporate planning for the Walt Disney Co., advised the committee Wednesday by phone.

They discussed what the town would need to do as it deals with land transfers, permits and construction of Utopia Studios, the $1.6 billion movie studio complex proposed for the Norwich Hospital property.

Ward said when planning Universal Studios, the city of Orlando, Fla., was unprepared to deal with permits for the project, inspections and the state and federal laws that must be followed.

...

Stanek said he is concerned about Utopia's projected attendance and profit numbers, but the town should use them in it planning until there is evidence from feasibility studies that those numbers might be different.

"We had a lot of anecdotal information. Without valid studies, they seemed to be a concern for us," Stanek said. "In the town's case, I would plan for the worst case. You don't want to execute the worst case. Planning is one thing. Executing is another."

[damus]

Day - Utopia Engineer Outlines Site Study Plans For Hospital Property

Preston

[Frankie811]

The City of Orlando. Keep in mind that the projected attendance of Utopia is much larger than Universal Studios Florida. If Orlando - a city which is BASED on this, doesn't have enough resources to deal with it, how will the little town of Preston

Have they bitten off more than they can chew?

[damus]

Have they bitten off more than they can chew?

"I stuffed his pockets he'll be back" is something I overheard from one Utopia guy to another.... In the Orlando forum, I started a thread to get information from people who actually lived through growth similar to this. They asked for my opinions so I gave them mine, quoted below is something of note. I really think stuff like bribes are a big reason why some people are pushing it.

On a side note: I know someone who told me their cousin was given a $1000 cash donation from Joe Genital (as we like to call him) to go towards his Eagle Scout project. When Genital found out that this person was against it he confronted him and said "I gave you a $1500 check" and "where's your honor" and all that crap. This sounds to me like a two pronged sign of these people. 1: when they give you money even when it's for a public charitable use, they expect you to do what they want (buy votes) and 2: considering the $500 difference in the figure he stated, they probably use chartitable donations as a way to fund bribes.

Also, in the local newsletter, "The Preston Pipeline", 1st Selectman Congdon notes that the town will have to hire a lot of staffmembers as well as volunteers to serve on comittees. You may see this idiot joining one if there are any that aren't a waste of time and aren't filled up already. I'm taking the stance that we're going to get it, might as well make the best of it. Mass transportation infrastructure is something we need now, not after the developments come.

[runawayjim]

"I stuffed his pockets he'll be back" is something I overheard from one Utopia guy to another.... In the Orlando forum, I started a thread to get information from people who actually lived through growth similar to this. They asked for my opinions so I gave them mine, quoted below is something of note. I really think stuff like bribes are a big reason why some people are pushing it.

On a side note: I know someone who told me their cousin was given a $1000 cash donation from Joe Genital (as we like to call him) to go towards his Eagle Scout project. When Genital found out that this person was against it he confronted him and said "I gave you a $1500 check" and "where's your honor" and all that crap. This sounds to me like a two pronged sign of these people. 1: when they give you money even when it's for a public charitable use, they expect you to do what they want (buy votes) and 2: considering the $500 difference in the figure he stated, they probably use chartitable donations as a way to fund bribes.

Also, in the local newsletter, "The Preston Pipeline", 1st Selectman Congdon notes that the town will have to hire a lot of staffmembers as well as volunteers to serve on comittees. You may see this idiot joining one if there are any that aren't a waste of time and aren't filled up already. I'm taking the stance that we're going to get it, might as well make the best of it. Mass transportation infrastructure is something we need now, not after the developments come.

you should join the committees.

[JimSawhill]

I don't know how Gatorland is doing, I do know that Cyprus opened up again was it last year? They had closed for a few yeaars, but someone bought it up and put in a few rides, and is running it again. I don't know how it is doing, though.

If those attractions are going to get any extra patronage, it has to be planned now. It will not happen by itself. People won't just go to them because they like to support the little places. They would rather spend their time all in one place. So that is the kind of planning that has to go on now.

Cypress Gardens was sold by the Dick Pope family when Dick Pope passed away -- to pay Estate taxes. They sol it to textbook publisher HBJ, who wanted to get into theme parks, then HBJ was bought, so they sold it to Busch. Busch didn't want the water ski shows, so they left it alone to die. When people stopped coming, they closed it. Busch wanted HBJ's Sea World, but Cypress Gardens was part of the group -- but Busch had no interest in it.

Cypress Gardens is back and I believe it is still short of projections -- because they didn't open when the wanted (Oct. 04), but the owner is happy with the results.

Jim S

[damus]

Day - Preston Residents for Utopia fined $100 for late filing

Organized labor underwrote the efforts to promote a favorable Utopia vote. Utopia estimates the project will create 4,700 construction jobs and 22,000 union jobs, and has promised that only union workers will be used.

The latest disclosure statement showed the $1,750 was donated by four union locals

[damus]

Utopia team conducting study to ensure environmental safety

"This is flash-tracked, not just fast-tracked," Dave Carlson of Earth Tech said during an update of the review process at a meeting on the former Norwich Hospital property.

...

Utopia is required to complete a Phase III Environmental Study of the property by Sept. 20 according to a development and property deal between Preston and Utopia.

[damus]

http://www.fairfieldcbj.com/archive/070306/0703060002.php

http://www.nypress.com/19/23/news&columns/JohnDeSio.cfm

looks like they also proposed this for the Bronx...

Cathy Moriarty-Gentile announced a plan. The actress, famous for her role in Raging Bull, told the audience that her company, Utopia Studios, was planning to build a 1,600 acre film, television and entertainment complex at a Bronx location.

No specifics were ever given, but Bronxites everywhere rejoiced. Finally, their own borough would have a chance to experience the limitless economic potential of Hollywood like their neighbors. Alas, it was not to be. Her Bronx connections were not enough to keep her loyal to her hometown, and in October 2004 Moriarty-Gentile instead announced plans to build the same exact studio in Norwich, Connecticut. Since no real specifics were ever announced regarding the Bronx plan, many wondered if the plan was real or just staged to help Carrion deflect criticism.

[HartfordTycoon]

http://www.fairfieldcbj.com/archive/070306/0703060002.php

http://www.nypress.com/19/23/news&columns/JohnDeSio.cfm

looks like they also proposed this for the Bronx...

Cathy Moriarty-Gentile announced a plan. The actress, famous for her role in Raging Bull, told the audience that her company, Utopia Studios, was planning to build a 1,600 acre film, television and entertainment complex at a Bronx location.

No specifics were ever given, but Bronxites everywhere rejoiced. Finally, their own borough would have a chance to experience the limitless economic potential of Hollywood like their neighbors. Alas, it was not to be. Her Bronx connections were not enough to keep her loyal to her hometown, and in October 2004 Moriarty-Gentile instead announced plans to build the same exact studio in Norwich, Connecticut. Since no real specifics were ever announced regarding the Bronx plan, many wondered if the plan was real or just staged to help Carrion deflect criticism.

And they all wanted it, granted it's an urban area. However that speaks to how attractive the project is.

[damus]

And they all wanted it, granted it's an urban area. However that speaks to how attractive the project is.

Yeah... the added traffic and ancillary developments are actually a good thing for a city like New York. The big deal is that this will transform a mostly rural area and, instead of more urban developments, we could see massive sprawl.

[HartfordTycoon]

Yeah... the added traffic and ancillary developments are actually a good thing for a city like New York. The big deal is that this will transform a mostly rural area and, instead of more urban developments, we could see massive sprawl.

New London County will become much more urban. That's definately gonna happen. However, in the long run it's a new exciting chapter in the story of the region. New London County will become a real power player in the state.