Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[wally2169]

Are we to take from this that Dyer and Crotty have agreed on using the tourist tax or an increase in such tax to pay for the new arena or is this the pre-preliminary pre-beginning of this happening?

Also, is it realistic to believe this will actually succeed where it failed so bad in the past?

[demon]

Are we to take from this that Dyer and Crotty have agreed on using the tourist tax or an increase in such tax to pay for the new arena or is this the pre-preliminary pre-beginning of this happening?

Also, is it realistic to believe this will actually succeed where it failed so bad in the past?

If they raise the tourist tax and don't produce at least an events center they can kiss their political careers goodbye.

[Magicfan95]

Are we to take from this that Dyer and Crotty have agreed on using the tourist tax or an increase in such tax to pay for the new arena or is this the pre-preliminary pre-beginning of this happening?

Also, is it realistic to believe this will actually succeed where it failed so bad in the past?

No, the comissioners are voting at the end of the month. A 5 of 7 vote is needed to increase the tax. I think it will pass.

Yes, it is very realistic. Orlando is at a point where they are losing concerts and other events because the venue is outdated. Recently they didn't get the NCAA 1st/2nd rounds in 2009 or 2010, instead they went to Jacksonville (seriously) and Miami. The arena is outdated and the city is noticing it...in their pockebooks.

[Magicfan95]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...=orl-home-promo

[demon]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...=orl-home-promo

A couple of things in this article disturb me.

1. Lots of rich businessmen get tax incentives. A new events center wouldn't just be for the Magic, it would be for concerts, arena football, college sports, political conventions, ice skating, gymnastics, Olympic trials....etc.

2. Please, please, please don't put an events center on I-Drive. Orlando is working hard to establish it's own identity seperate from the tourist mecca. A downtown events center would help lift downtown Orlando and make it more attractive for businesses and residents. Yes, I see the benefits of putting it on I-Drive. But if the powers that be at the county level want an events center on I-Drive let them use the tourist tax for it. Or better yet build a train that goes from the convention center to downtown. When I went to Chicago for my convention the United Center was no where near the McCormick center, and maybe 1-2 miles from downtown but I still went to see a Bulls game.

3. Yes the convention center makes more money for the region in some weekends than 10 Magic games. Which is why we need to diversify. If tourism slows down an events center downtown can still make money from the locals. I really don't see how pouring much more money into the convention center is going to bring more money in. That place is ginormous. I think if we want to spur the convention center's economic engine we need to build more condo/hotel towers like the Blue Rose so conventioneers have someplace nice to stay while they're in town.

I really think the location of the events center is going to be key. It needs to be within walking distance of as much as possible. Others have suggested a site on Church St, and I may be inclined to agree. This would capitalize on the new shops that will occupy the area around 55 West. I also think we need to surround this with restaurants & retail. I love what D.C. did with the MCI Center, there's a Borders right next door to it. I would love to get to an event early and hang out & read at Borders. I think people who work downtown would appreciate a place to hang out in those 2 hours between 5 and the start of an event. Plus I'm sure some people would like a place to chill out after an event like a bar, not that downtown Orlando doesn't have enough of those. I also think the events center and PAC should be right next to each other if not attached to each other. I'm still mulling that one over because it might be better if they benefit 2 seperate areas.

[GregoryMCSE]

Church Street. WQset of I-4. Revitalize a traditionaly african American neighborhood, help some businesse in that neighborhood while still being close enough to 55 West and the bars down their. Quick observation, event center is some marketing persons idea of how to sell the public on a new ARENA.

[demon]

Church Street. WQset of I-4. Revitalize a traditionaly african American neighborhood, help some businesse in that neighborhood while still being close enough to 55 West and the bars down their. Quick observation, event center is some marketing persons idea of how to sell the public on a new ARENA.

And it's true. When you think Arena you think "where the Magic play" but it's going to be used for a lot more than the Magic.

[Hisma]

I remember in 2001 when they were pushing for the new arena, you saw so many people w/ the "norena" bumper stickers.

I hope to god people have wised up by now and you won't see as much of that garbage.

[grummster]

I remember in 2001 when they were pushing for the new arena, you saw so many people w/ the "norena" bumper stickers.

I hope to god people have wised up by now and you won't see as much of that garbage.

I hear you there are to many short sighted old people that agree with the Mike Thomas guy from the Sentinal who hates sports. This arena is such a good thing for Orlando.

[Dale]

Oh, I don't think it's beyond the pale for even people who want to see Orlando to oppose subsidizing billionaires.

Maybe you two should wise up.

[Violindude]

If Orlando gets a new Orena and/or more pro teams we'd have more to offer then most cities. (i.e. our theme parks, pro sports teams, close beaches etc, etc.) I think this would be great for the Orlando arts but the question is it worth all the money?

[speck76]

powerful stuff.

yet he makes no mention that 95% of the cities that have built new arenas have not played host to the Super Bowl, political conventions, or a NBA title.

[Magicfan95]

Yes Speck, however, those cities also weren't jobbed of an NCAA 1st/2nd round to Jacksonville this past week because their venues weren't outdated to meet the competition in the area.

Jacksonville...need I say more. We've lost concerts and now an NCAA tourny site to them...

Edited July 10, 2006 by Magicfan95

[grummster]

yet he makes no mention that 95% of the cities that have built new arenas have not played host to the Super Bowl, political conventions, or a NBA title.

95% of Cities aren't the #2 tourist destination in the country behind a city that has no real pro sports teams and is not a very good fit for real sports leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB,...)

[mrh3]

95% of Cities aren't the #2 tourist destination in the country behind a city that has no real pro sports teams and is not a very good fit for real sports leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB,...)

Why isn't it a good fit?

[grummster]

Why isn't it a good fit?

All of the gambling makes officials uneasy, thats why they dont have any teams, plus there have been scandals with UNLV.

[bulldogger]

All of the gambling makes officials uneasy, thats why they dont have any teams, plus there have been scandals with UNLV.

I just have to say that I'm lost on this part of the topic/thread. Where did Las Vegas come into play with this topic? I don't see the relationship.

[mrh3]

I just have to say that I'm lost on this part of the topic/thread. Where did Las Vegas come into play with this topic? I don't see the relationship.

I think it has to do with Orlando/Las Vegas' viability as a home team to national sports franchises.

[wally2169]

No, the comissioners are voting at the end of the month. A 5 of 7 vote is needed to increase the tax. I think it will pass.

Yes, it is very realistic. Orlando is at a point where they are losing concerts and other events because the venue is outdated. Recently they didn't get the NCAA 1st/2nd rounds in 2009 or 2010, instead they went to Jacksonville (seriously) and Miami. The arena is outdated and the city is noticing it...in their pockebooks.

Thanks for the update on that

I agree with you 100%, we need a new arena, no question

If Miami can get a new one within a decade and Jax can get a stunning one with no definitive tenant beyond JU, then certainly we deserve one also

My question is this, if there is a chance that the tax increase is not approved (God help us) is there any clear idea as to whether or not the Magic well finally "screw this, we're going to Vegas or elsewhere" or are there any other options beyond to prevent it from happening?

Also, where in downtown can we realistically expect the new arena to be located?

Personally, I think the Magic should find a temp home whether at UCF or Tampa/ St. Pete Times Forum for 2 seasons while the TD Waterhouse is imploded and a new one built on the same spot

But, if this is not possible and Magic have to still play at TD, where else in downtown can new arena be built and still be viable?

I think the further you push back into Parramore or out towards the Citrus Bowl, the worse it could become

[speck76]

Yes Speck, however, those cities also weren't jobbed of an NCAA 1st/2nd round to Jacksonville this past week because their venues weren't outdated to meet the competition in the area.

Jacksonville...need I say more. We've lost concerts and now an NCAA tourny site to them...

I think our loss of concerts and tournaments has more to do with poor management of the current facilities, and less to do with the condition of the current facilities.....

NCAA tournaments and concerts have been held in far worse places than the TD Waterhouse Center....

[Magicfan95]

Speck,

Yes they have...but lets look at COMPETITION in the region. Jacksonville, Tampa, Miami, and Sunrise all have venues better suited for those respected events.

Whereas Boise, ID has...Spokane, WA? Bismark, SD? Billings, MT

and Albuquerque, NM has...El Paso, TX?

One more point...poor management? Allen Johnson has been a miracle for the arena. There is nothing asethically pleasing nor adventagous to any performer...Have you been in the green room? I've seem Motel 6's with nicer areas...

How about the locker rooms? I've seen HS locker rooms that were bigger.

The Media room? looks like a small highschool cafeteria.

Speck, I don't mind if you say your against the arena, that is your opinion. Please don't go using information that is off base to back your points thats all I ask.

[speck76]

Speck,

Yes they have...but lets look at COMPETITION in the region. Jacksonville, Tampa, Miami, and Sunrise all have venues better suited for those respected events.

Whereas Boise, ID has...Spokane, WA? Bismark, SD? Billings, MT

and Albuquerque, NM has...El Paso, TX?

One more point...poor management? Allen Johnson has been a miracle for the arena. There is nothing asethically pleasing nor adventagous to any performer...Have you been in the green room? I've seem Motel 6's with nicer areas...

How about the locker rooms? I've seen HS locker rooms that were bigger.

The Media room? looks like a small highschool cafeteria.

Speck, I don't mind if you say your against the arena, that is your opinion. Please don't go using information that is off base to back your points thats all I ask.

I am not against the arena....just how it will be financed.....but since that is done....it is dumb to argue....

I think it is rather idiotic to think that a new arena will suddenly bring piles of gold to downtown Orlando....there will not be a headline concert there every night, nor a ton of NCAA tournaments or political conventions......

A new arena is not going to be some magical cure for downtown.....especially not if managed in the same fashion as the TD Waterhouse Center.....a new arena needs a new attitude and direction.....

[sunshine]

If they build a new one, the old one will become a very potential building for redevelopment. Hopefully into a world class museum, downtown conference center or a mall.

[Magicfan95]

Speck,

I won't argue that the arena would be a "magical" cure for downtown. However, nothing you build would be, be it a PAC, a Museum, a World Trade Center, Space needle, etc.

That being said, more than any other project an arena would be a great catalyst for development. Take away how our current arena is situated and look how other venues are put together. The St. Pete Times Forum basically took old docks/piers in downtown Tampa and helped turn it into an area of shops, restaurants, bars, condos, etc. Was it the sole responsibility, no...but it was a MAJOR catalyst.

Lets go to Miami, American Airlines Arena is built in an area of Miami that many believed to be very dangerous and unacceptable. Since then bars and restaurants have increased in the area as well as Condos and over living quarters...Thats right on the bay in downtown Miami!

Finally Memphis, where the FedEx Forum was built right off Beale St. in an effort to increase business of local residents in the area. Which in it's short existence has been nothing but positive. Many new restaurants have opened as well as shops in the area, which will be followed by a Blues museum in the next few months.

If done correctly an arena can be a catalyst for downtown development, everything from shops, restaurants, and condos will benefit. Ya we might not have a new concert everynight or some political convention, but there will be a renewed interest from outside groups to host events at the new O-rena because of the attractivness of the Orlando market and the new arena's ability to turn a profit.

[gumpking1]

Thanks for the update on that

I agree with you 100%, we need a new arena, no question

If Miami can get a new one within a decade and Jax can get a stunning one with no definitive tenant beyond JU, then certainly we deserve one also

My question is this, if there is a chance that the tax increase is not approved (God help us) is there any clear idea as to whether or not the Magic well finally "screw this, we're going to Vegas or elsewhere" or are there any other options beyond to prevent it from happening?

Also, where in downtown can we realistically expect the new arena to be located?

Personally, I think the Magic should find a temp home whether at UCF or Tampa/ St. Pete Times Forum for 2 seasons while the TD Waterhouse is imploded and a new one built on the same spot

But, if this is not possible and Magic have to still play at TD, where else in downtown can new arena be built and still be viable?

I think the further you push back into Parramore or out towards the Citrus Bowl, the worse it could become

I disagree.Play at td waterhouse till new arena is built.Then the td waterhouse can be used for other things.It would be a waste of mney to tear it down.