Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[Uncommon]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

I'm trying to figure out the "guaranteed" or fixed dates of major events.  At UF, they have the 7 home games (2022) and Gator Growl every year...in an isolated college stadium.  That revenue, for college football, justifies having the stadium.

I'm trying to equate or correlate that with football games + events at Citrus Bowl.  UF's stadium has had a lot of $$$ pumped into it over the decades.  I know there's booster money involved there as well.  By comparison, ProPlayer in Miami has the Dolphins and Hurricanes (they also used to have the Marlins).  That was a ton of dates per year.

But, regarding Monster Jam, the world finals used to be held in LV every year, but since 2019, they are held in Orlando.

To be fair, annually, 2 bowl games, EDC, Monster Jam, 4 Orlando Guardians XFL games, The Florida Classic (BCC vs FAMU), at least 1 college football neutral site game.  10 events.  Since 2021, the Pop Warner National Championships, a 7 day event, has been at Citrus Bowl (used to be at Disney).  So, that's 11 events covering 17 days.  There were 6 major concerts in 2022.  But maybe only 1 for 2023.

But that's quite a few events just from that list that doesn't even take into account the rotating events, like soccer exhibition games, that car meet, etc.  Granted, NFL games can pack 65k to 75k fans.  

I would however love to see the numbers on revenue per year.  

And that's not even factoring having the ability to host a Pro Bowl like we have in the past, and don't quote me on this, but I think the Jags will be playing their games here while they renovate their own stadium.

So should we be pouring money into it to make it competitive? Yes, imo we should because the other options are build a brand new stadium (not gonna happen) or let the stadium fall into despair (horrible use of resources). I'm all for improving the stadium, absolutely. When Orlando stops drawing major events, then we can talk about if it's worth it to invest in the stadium. Until then, it's an asset.

[dcluley98]

I am fairly certain it is an expense, not a money-maker in terms of actual revenue vs costs for venues.  However, OVERALL, the city sees it as a profit generator because it draws tourism and other revenue such as hotels, restaurants, travel, and whatever else from people coming to the large events as well as cultural benefits. I believe overall they are all grouped into the Orlando Venues: Amway Center, Camping World Stadium, Tinker Field, Harry P. Leu Gardens and the Mennello Museum of American Art.

https://www.orlando.gov/Our-Government/Departments-Offices/Venues

These are meant to be run in a way that is pretty much neutral with regard to profit/loss.  Amway Center, I recall they said was "in the Black" with the events they hosted, so some of the other ones are likely operating at a loss and offest.  CWS not sure if they generate a profit overall, as the individual venues are not broken out. However, the goal is being more of an overall asset and cultural asset/benefit for the area, not necessarily turning a large profit. Overall, I feel that Orlando benefits from hosting these large events still and should invest in keeping the facility viable to do so. 

[jrs2]

12 hours ago, Uncommon said:

And that's not even factoring having the ability to host a Pro Bowl like we have in the past, and don't quote me on this, but I think the Jags will be playing their games here while they renovate their own stadium.

So should we be pouring money into it to make it competitive? Yes, imo we should because the other options are build a brand new stadium (not gonna happen) or let the stadium fall into despair (horrible use of resources). I'm all for improving the stadium, absolutely. When Orlando stops drawing major events, then we can talk about if it's worth it to invest in the stadium. Until then, it's an asset.

I felt the two big negatives for CWS were UCF leaving in 2007 and Orlando City Soccer building their own stadium a few years after that.  With those losses, they still host those other events still along with rotating events.  But it really needed to be closer to the CBD.  The barrier of OBT is a negative.  Too bad that wasn’t Mills.  Maybe The City can get that stretch of OBT urban renewalized.  OPD was a good first step…nothing since tho.

[codypet]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:35 AM, jrs2 said:

I felt the two big negatives for CWS were UCF leaving in 2007 and Orlando City Soccer building their own stadium a few years after that.  With those losses, they still host those other events still along with rotating events.  But it really needed to be closer to the CBD.  The barrier of OBT is a negative.  Too bad that wasn’t Mills.  Maybe The City can get that stretch of OBT urban renewalized.  OPD was a good first step…nothing since tho.

That's a lot of land to redevelop.   And you have all of Paramore that would need to be revamped too.

[jrs2]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:48 AM, codypet said:

That's a lot of land to redevelop.   And you have all of Paramore that would need to be revamped too.

they gotta get rid of the Health Department.  move it to the other side of OBT somewhere; somewhere past OBT.  Right now, The Walking Dead are outside of the soccer stadium along Central.  A lot of them filter down to Church St.; and a lot are along Terry because of the outreach center.  If people want CV to flourish and for Parramore to improve and to get more capital investment in and around CWS and that corridor, they need to ditch the Health Department and move it west, or, 

I will say that the Central corridor is almost all industrial, which is fine.  Washington, not so much.  Church is mostly industrial.  You can't mix business with slum-related activity...as we all know...

[codypet]

You got the  1 2 punch of not just the Health Dept, but also the Coalition for the Homeless almost even N-S with each other and Exploria.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

You got the  1 2 punch of not just the Health Dept, but also the Coalition for the Homeless almost even N-S with each other and Exploria.

yeah, that stuff's gotta go if they realistically expect to revitalize the neighborhood.  it's like the kennel.  for whomever remembers, the humane society was off of Conroy when it was called something else, before Millennia was developed and Conroy bridge built.  it was on the outskirts of the city limits.  it's still there, but hidden amongst all the other development.  In gainesville, the mental health facility was off 441 at the southern border of the city limits...not in downtown.

[codypet]

14 hours ago, jrs2 said:

yeah, that stuff's gotta go if they realistically expect to revitalize the neighborhood.  it's like the kennel.  for whomever remembers, the humane society was off of Conroy when it was called something else, before Millennia was developed and Conroy bridge built.  it was on the outskirts of the city limits.  it's still there, but hidden amongst all the other development.  In gainesville, the mental health facility was off 441 at the southern border of the city limits...not in downtown.

Speaking of the kennel, Pet Alliance's temporary home is also located Central in the spot we're talking about.

[Uncommon]

NFL  Pro Bowl returning to Orlando in January. This is a major win for the region. I have no idea why they'd wanna come back here but whatever. I wonder if the $800M renovations that are in consideration will be completed by then, if selected.

[aent]

7 hours ago, Uncommon said:

NFL  Pro Bowl returning to Orlando in January. This is a major win for the region. I have no idea why they'd wanna come back here but whatever. I wonder if the $800M renovations that are in consideration will be completed by then, if selected.

I don't think those plans are beyond conceptual design yet, not even construction plans. I can't imagine a way they would complete it by then.

[prahaboheme]

$800 million? 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

$800 million? 

Yup. Cool Billion 

[jrs2]

On 7/25/2023 at 2:34 PM, Uncommon said:

NFL  Pro Bowl returning to Orlando in January. This is a major win for the region. I have no idea why they'd wanna come back here but whatever. I wonder if the $800M renovations that are in consideration will be completed by then, if selected.

UF has a proposal to improve Ben Hill Griffin Stadium for like $400M.  Some of that is structural maintenance work... Did they say what exactly they'll do at Citrus Bowl for that $800M?

[aent]

58 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

UF has a proposal to improve Ben Hill Griffin Stadium for like $400M.  Some of that is structural maintenance work... Did they say what exactly they'll do at Citrus Bowl for that $800M?

 

My understanding is add roof, rebuild upper decks, add meeting space, improve amenities

[AndyPok1]

Honestly rebuilding the upper decks is probably needed to keep the events we have for more than the next 5 years or so.  We cheaped out last time, and it's catching up.

There's also talk of WWE bringing Royal Rumble in January (the 2nd or 3rd biggest show behind WrestleMania) to either Orlando or Tampa.  Past few years its been a stadium show, so assuming it would be at Camping World if it happens.  (Coincidentally enough, the last two years have been San Antonio and St Louis.  Which are probably the 2 most directly comparable facilities to CWS in regards to football stadium without a tenant but still keeps operating.)

[JFW657]

So exactly what would rebuilding the upper decks entail and why do they need it?

Aren't they made of concrete and as such, sturdy enough?

Unlike UCF's cheesy erector set Bounce House? 

I can see the need/desire to replace those steel beam side boxes which I never liked, but I'm confused about the upper decks. 

Love the roof idea though. 

[dcluley98]

The upper decks are the old-school bench style bleachers, not seats.  Often NFL and college standiums have gotten red of the bench seats and replaced them with chair-backs/fold down while upgrading, along with slightly reducing capacity but giving a better fan experience. They kept the upper decks back when they rebuilt the stadium in 2014. 

[JFW657]

So then, they aren't talking about rebuilding the upper decks, just replacing and upgrading the seating.

Got it. 

[aent]

6 hours ago, JFW657 said:

So then, they aren't talking about rebuilding the upper decks, just replacing and upgrading the seating.

Got it. 

lol, they are planning to rebuild the upper deck. Why, I don't know. Maybe they consider it necessary or with the roof addition and chairback seats, it doesn't add THAT much to the cost to replace everything there?

Edited July 31, 2023 by aent

[JFW657]

48 minutes ago, aent said:

lol, they are planning to rebuild the upper deck. Why, I don't know. Maybe they consider it necessary or with the roof addition and chairback seats, it doesn't add THAT much to the cost to replace everything there?

I dunno. 

Seems like demo'ing all that concrete then replacing it would be hugely expensive, not to mention wasteful of all the money that was spent on it less than 10 years ago.

Based on the rendering, the roof looks like a vinyl fabric type material supported by masts and cables around the perimeter of the structure.  

Guess we'll see, providing it ever happens. 

[Gtothree2748]

10 hours ago, aent said:

lol, they are planning to rebuild the upper deck. Why, I don't know. Maybe they consider it necessary or with the roof addition and chairback seats, it doesn't add THAT much to the cost to replace everything there?

To my understanding they would expand the upper decks by adding another section to the north end of the stadium along with other amenities in the corners of the upper deck level. Meanwhile refurbish the current upper deck concrete structures and add a flimsy canopy. 

I have to say, I can’t justify $800 million of our tourist tax funds being spent on this project at this current moment in time. Any major overhaul of this stadium can wait at least another decade or so, perhaps when the lower bowl would be due for legitimate upgrades. The stadium was gutted entirely from below the upper deck and re built to modern standards in 2015.

It would make more sense to revisit this idea in the future with a larger budget and innovative designs, similar to what Jacksonville is doing. Maybe even a new stadium altogether in a different location and redevelop that plot of land. Either way we need something unique and distinguished that could actually make us competitive with other venues worldwide. Otherwise, minor updates and upgrades overtime will suffice. 

I’m no expert but I would assume the price of replacing those aluminum benches with comfortable seats and minor aesthetic upgrades would cost no more than a few million dollars. 

This project’s current renderings are a joke. $800 million (which will probably end up costing close to a billion upon completion) to look boxy and lacking compared to most major stadiums in the US.

Like others have stated, we don’t even have an NFL team in Orlando and we need to stop pretending like we will ever get one. That won’t happen on Tampas watch. Let’s focus on where we do have potential.  This round of tourist funds can be used more strategically somewhere else. 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Gtothree2748

[jrs2]

5 hours ago, Gtothree2748 said:

To my understanding they would expand the upper decks by adding another section to the north end of the stadium along with other amenities in the corners of the upper deck level. Meanwhile refurbish the current upper deck concrete structures and add a flimsy canopy. 

I have to say, I can’t justify $800 million of our tourist tax funds being spent on this project at this current moment in time. Any major overhaul of this stadium can wait at least another decade or so, perhaps when the lower bowl would be due for legitimate upgrades. The stadium was gutted entirely from below the upper deck and re built to modern standards in 2015.

It would make more sense to revisit this idea in the future with a larger budget and innovative designs, similar to what Jacksonville is doing. Maybe even a new stadium altogether in a different location and redevelop that plot of land. Either way we need something unique and distinguished that could actually make us competitive with other venues worldwide. Otherwise, minor updates and upgrades overtime will suffice. 

I’m no expert but I would assume the price of replacing those aluminum benches with comfortable seats and minor aesthetic upgrades would cost no more than a few million dollars. 

This project’s current renderings are a joke. $800 million (which will probably end up costing close to a billion upon completion) to look boxy and lacking compared to most major stadiums in the US.

Like others have stated, we don’t even have an NFL team in Orlando and we need to stop pretending like we will ever get one. That won’t happen on Tampas watch. Let’s focus on where we do have potential.  This round of tourist funds can be used more strategically somewhere else. 

 

to be more competitive would probably mean they need to move the stadium to the tourist district.  Access would suck, but, it's just like with the OCCC in how they market to potential vendors...it has to do with entertainment options nearby (and rooms within walking distance)- hence the proposal for the MLB stadium being in that corridor.

It is tough to market to land a game or event when the game or event is in the 'hood.  

Now, they can change that.  How?  First, Lot 3, which is next to Ferguson Plumbing on Church St, they need to gate that entire property down to South Street.  Why isn't there a fence around that already?  Ferguson is fenced off.  They should fence off Lots 4 & 5 as well.  You fence off the property where you don't want loiterers to be camped out at (get it? camped out at Camping World...?  anyway...).

Just about everything else that is even remotely close to being a lot where people can loiter is fenced off all the way past Westmoreland and right up to the Soccer Stadium.  So, there's either a commercial/ industrial building along Church St. or there is a fenced in piece of property.  The only place you see loiterers is off of Central because of the Health Department...they are there and along Central up to and including outside of the Soccer Stadium.

If they tie up these "loose ends" they can "improve" that area so that it's stadium crowd-worthy.  I would also fence off Lots A, B, and C, off of Tampa Ave.  Man, what is it with these people?  They are really playing games with this stuff.  They need to eliminate all loiterer-prone areas so that the perception is that the area has been "cleaned up" even if it hasn't.  Most all of the private businesses have fenced in their properties yet The City doesn't fence in it's property.  Go figure.

Even the County Health Department is fenced in along Church St.  What gives?

[angela1117]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

 

Even the County Health Department is fenced in along Church St.  What gives?

It's my understanding that the Central building is still being repaired from Hurricane Ian. 

[angela1117]

 

From the Orlando Sentinel. Looks like the project is taking longer than expected.

PUBLISHED: December 16, 2022 at 9:55 a.m. | UPDATED: December 16, 2022 at 2:55 p.m.

The Florida Department of Health in Orange County’s main office is about to reach month three of closure, with at least another month to go as repairs continue.

The four-story Central Health Center building in downtown Orlando sustained nearly $2 million in damage during Hurricane Ian in late September, after heavy rain wrecked the roof and flooded the building’s interior, said Reed Knowlton, financial advisor to Orange County.

Director and health officer of DOH-Orange Dr. Robert Karch said about 60% of the building at 832 W. Central Blvd. was impacted.

Services have been relocated in accordance with the agency’s disaster plan, and the new locations can accommodate all the patients who were previously visiting this central location, Karch added.

 

 

 

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, angela1117 said:

 

From the Orlando Sentinel. Looks like the project is taking longer than expected.

PUBLISHED: December 16, 2022 at 9:55 a.m. | UPDATED: December 16, 2022 at 2:55 p.m.

The Florida Department of Health in Orange County’s main office is about to reach month three of closure, with at least another month to go as repairs continue.

The four-story Central Health Center building in downtown Orlando sustained nearly $2 million in damage during Hurricane Ian in late September, after heavy rain wrecked the roof and flooded the building’s interior, said Reed Knowlton, financial advisor to Orange County.

Director and health officer of DOH-Orange Dr. Robert Karch said about 60% of the building at 832 W. Central Blvd. was impacted.

Services have been relocated in accordance with the agency’s disaster plan, and the new locations can accommodate all the patients who were previously visiting this central location, Karch added.

Wow.  I had no idea this happened.  So this has been going on since last Fall...