Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[GregoryMCSE]

I love football and have fondness for this stadium in all of its iterations… but this is a waste of money.  For the amount of games played in it, the stadium is fine as it is.  

Edited November 16, 2023 by GregoryMCSE

[JFW657]

5 hours ago, shardoon said:

No everyone. Someone just referred to it as one of the oldest stadiums without a sports team in the context of why it needs constant maintenance and updating/upgrading.

I think you misunderstood what he said.

Quote

 

^Honest question - when was the last time you were there? Things require maintenance and updating.

To answer your question: Yes.

It is one of the oldest stadiums out there without a sports team that bring in millions a year from other venues.

 

I think they were two separate, independent statements.  

[Uncommon]

6 hours ago, jrs2 said:

he's a popular stance:  they should take that $200M and move the Orange County Clinic out of Parramore Neighborhood and move it to like OBT south of the I-4 interchange, where they already have rent by the week motels.

Then, they can start cleaning up the area between Citrus Bowl and the Soccer Stadium.

District Gastrobar is across the street from CityView.  People go there.  There was a bar across the street from the Soccer Stadium on Church that shut down.  That was a real loss.  Big momentum killer for the area...  I think the lockdowns killed it.

Anyway, just throwing ideas out there that can help revitalize Parramore which in turn makes Citrus Bowl events that much more palatable...

I agree 100% with your idea of moving the clinic and anything homeless related out of downtown entirely. I think that would improve downtown’s outlook dramatically.

[shardoon]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

I think you misunderstood what he said.

I think they were two separate, independent statements.  

Think how much money we have dumped into it. $208 million in 2014 and $60 million 2 years ago. 30% inflation calculated from 2014 and 11.5% inflation from 2021. Total spent in today's dollars is $271 million + 67 million which is a total of $338 million. 

Now the originally wanted $800 million, but were rejected and now Dyer is proposing $400 million. Depending what proposal you look at, it's potential investment of $738 Million or 1.138 Billion. 

All this for the crappy place in a crappy location with no NFL team. 

Lucas Oil stadium cost $720 million in 2008. 2023 money it costs 1.03 Billion.

Adjust a lot of NFL palaces to inflation in today's money and prices are not that far off. 

No point in sinking further money in the place when there is no greater return and they are not at risk of losing anything they currently have.

Not saying you are arguing for it, just using this as an example of how much continued money Citrus sports keeps on asking for and what we could have had if we were not married to that dump for historic reasons. 

 

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

Think how much money we have dumped into it. $208 million in 2014 and $60 million 2 years ago. 30% inflation calculated from 2014 and 11.5% inflation from 2021. Total spent in today's dollars is $271 million + 67 million which is a total of $338 million. 

Now the originally wanted $800 million, but were rejected and now Dyer is proposing $400 million. Depending what proposal you look at, it's potential investment of $738 Million or 1.138 Billion. 

All this for the crappy place in a crappy location with no NFL team. 

Lucas Oil stadium cost $720 million in 2008. 2023 money it costs 1.03 Billion.

Adjust a lot of NFL palaces to inflation in today's money and prices are not that far off. 

No point in sinking further money in the place when there is no greater return and they are not at risk of losing anything they currently have.

Not saying you are arguing for it, just using this as an example of how much continued money Citrus sports keeps on asking for and what we could have had if we were not married to that dump for historic reasons. 

 

That's right, I'm not advocating for spending that much money especially for what seem to be a lot of cosmetic improvements. 

I'm all for replacing the upper deck bench seats with individual fold down seats and possibly some things to make it easier to get around inside.

But that funky junk around the outside doesn't seem to serve much purpose other than to make it look fancy-shmancy and drive the cost up. 

[jrs2]

23 hours ago, Uncommon said:

I agree 100% with your idea of moving the clinic and anything homeless related out of downtown entirely. I think that would improve downtown’s outlook dramatically.

exactly.  this also means the downtown churches have to stop offering soup kitchens in that quadrant and just do it elsewhere (Coptic Orthodox Church & Terry soup kitchen).  Many people don't realize this, but there are organizations that are set up in other parts of the County and in neighboring counties where they offer soup kitchens, mailboxes, bathing, bathroom, etc., facilities as part of their outreach offerings.    I also think Lynx has to start charging for the LYMMO as well.  If investors see this type of commitment, they will start investing more downtown (between the CBD and OBT).  And, they can help Parramore revitalize as a result.  I've know three black individuals through work over the past few years that are scared to death of the Parramore neighborhood- and one of them finally moved out of Orlando while the other two are "stuck" there.  I think District Gastrobar being successful is a great start to build upon.  But the fact that the Church people sold (next to Exploria) is seemingly bad for that neighborhood.

[tc01]

Orange County leaders approved spending $400-million in tourism tax funds Tuesday to renovate Camping World Stadium.

https://www.wftv.com/news/video-orange-county-leaders-approve-400-million-camping-world-stadium-renovation/81f3defb-88e8-4008-96b4-d29ce8e05a43/

 

[shardoon]

55 minutes ago, tc01 said:

Orange County leaders approved spending $400-million in tourism tax funds Tuesday to renovate Camping World Stadium.

https://www.wftv.com/news/video-orange-county-leaders-approve-400-million-camping-world-stadium-renovation/81f3defb-88e8-4008-96b4-d29ce8e05a43/

 

Just think.....for the amount of money that we dumped into this craphole stadium, we could have had an NFL ready Dome not far off from Jerry world on I drive competing for CFP playoffs, NCAA final fours, super bowls, and even possibly and a NFL team.

Same could have been said for a domed baseball stadium which would lure the Rays over here because no matter how many BS agreements they have to build a new stadium in tampa/st pete.....it will never get done. 

Edited January 24 by shardoon

[FLClarkKent]

$400 M would also get you well on the way to 7-day per week SunRail service (including holidays), and possibly the start of an East/West route.

[codypet]

1 hour ago, FLClarkKent said:

$400 M would also get you well on the way to 7-day per week SunRail service (including holidays), and possibly the start of an East/West route.

They better start planning to use the TDT for the Sunshine Corridor.  I have a hard time believing they COULD make the argument that a train from the airport to Idrive doesn't serve the tourists

 

[orange87]

[GregoryMCSE]

3 hours ago, orange87 said:

Yuck.  So pointless. Why? Why? Why?

[aent]

So unbelievably stupid. They should not do anything, but if they are, no roof at this price? The fasade is already new. Very bad leadership

[JFW657]

7 hours ago, orange87 said:

 

[sethM]

Everyone who has gone to the Citrus Bowl in the past few years will tell you the biggest issue is the stadium operations. Concessions take forever and run out of food, bathroom lines are a mile long, etc. None of these renovations will solve the core issues. 

This also highlights the absurdity of the TDT fund rules. $400M burning a hole in our pocket and this is all we can think to spend it on? Financial malpractice. 

[orlandocity87]

I realize this wouldn't fly under TDT spending, but the biggest issue I've always had with all of this is the area around the stadium. We'll be nearing a $1B stadium, and I'm expected to park on the grass like I'm going to a county fair? Or take the Lymmo that drops me off half a mile away in an industrial area? Or not feel super safe riding a bike or scooter back into town at night? (Mind you, I've done it and it was fine, but most people won't feel the same.) 

If it were up to me, they'd turn the remains of Tinker Field and the parking lot in Lake Lorna Doone Park into actual parks for pregaming and other festivals. They'd use the ample vacant land to build some UCF-style garages. Ideally they would add some affordable housing (orange) and corner retail (red).

Frankly, applying to things like becoming a host city for the 2026 FIFA World Cup or housing the next Amazon HQ is embarrassing when entire sections of the city look like they do. 

[Ivanhoe]

Embarrassing indeed. During one of the college bowl weekends I witnessed many game day patrons wandering around Parramore pre-game looking rather bewildered and lost. 
After all these years, I would have though that major investment in legitimate improvements to OBT and Church Street at minimum would have occurred to make the area more attractive. 
Like other areas such as downtown it has either stagnated or declined. 
 

[JFW657]

Well, at least the weather didn't suck this year for the... whatever they call that mess that used to be a football game.  

[jrs2]

On 1/31/2024 at 9:40 AM, orlandocity87 said:

I realize this wouldn't fly under TDT spending, but the biggest issue I've always had with all of this is the area around the stadium. We'll be nearing a $1B stadium, and I'm expected to park on the grass like I'm going to a county fair? Or take the Lymmo that drops me off half a mile away in an industrial area? Or not feel super safe riding a bike or scooter back into town at night? (Mind you, I've done it and it was fine, but most people won't feel the same.) 

If it were up to me, they'd turn the remains of Tinker Field and the parking lot in Lake Lorna Doone Park into actual parks for pregaming and other festivals. They'd use the ample vacant land to build some UCF-style garages. Ideally they would add some affordable housing (orange) and corner retail (red).

Frankly, applying to things like becoming a host city for the 2026 FIFA World Cup or housing the next Amazon HQ is embarrassing when entire sections of the city look like they do. 

sometimes I wonder if the stigma of Disney/tourist town has hit City Hall's ego to the extent that their mayoral office will gladly take slums as a badge of honor as something that big cities typically have just to show outsiders that there's more to Orlando than just Disney; that it behaves like a big city and the proof is "look at our slums!" so that people will see that and be like..."wow...I get to walk thru slums to get to the football stadium...this truly is a typical big city. and this is a big city stadium." 

The only problem with that is that you need to already be a big city and have the big city development and discipline to justify having those slums as a byproduct of its growth evolution, so that those you are trying to impress give you a pass- Except here, in Orlando.  It's like the mayor of Tombstone who's comment about Tombstone ("yes sir" ... "not so toney"...) which draws the ire of Doc Holiday when he sarcastically retorts "yes indeed...very cosmopolitan..." after Texas Jack and Creek Johnson just got done red-necking in a shootout in front of everyone.

I told people here on UP they need to ditch the Health Department and get rid of it.  Your comment deals mainly with Citrus Bowl.  But, go to the Soccer Stadium which is a block from the Health Department and observe Orlando's big city clout as dozens upon dozens of The Walking Dead loiter around the Health Department and neighboring bus stop- and in front of the Soccer Stadium along Central.   I guess it does wonders for Orlando's SGA Score, so someone somewhere is happy about that, while Citrus Sports tries to ignore this and snag that good $$$ from the TDT while City Hall allows this zone to fester (fester means "to rot").

 

[Uncommon]

57 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

sometimes I wonder if the stigma of Disney/tourist town has hit City Hall's ego to the extent that their mayoral office will gladly take slums as a badge of honor as something that big cities typically have just to show outsiders that there's more to Orlando than just Disney; that it behaves like a big city and the proof is "look at our slums!" so that people will see that and be like..."wow...I get to walk thru slums to get to the football stadium...this truly is a typical big city. and this is a big city stadium." 

The only problem with that is that you need to already be a big city and have the big city development and discipline to justify having those slums as a byproduct of its growth evolution, so that those you are trying to impress give you a pass- Except here, in Orlando.  It's like the mayor of Tombstone who's comment about Tombstone ("yes sir" ... "not so toney"...) which draws the ire of Doc Holiday when he sarcastically retorts "yes indeed...very cosmopolitan..." after Texas Jack and Creek Johnson just got done red-necking in a shootout in front of everyone.

I told people here on UP they need to ditch the Health Department and get rid of it.  Your comment deals mainly with Citrus Bowl.  But, go to the Soccer Stadium which is a block from the Health Department and observe Orlando's big city clout as dozens upon dozens of The Walking Dead loiter around the Health Department and neighboring bus stop- and in front of the Soccer Stadium along Central.   I guess it does wonders for Orlando's SGA Score, so someone somewhere is happy about that, while Citrus Sports tries to ignore this and snag that good $$$ from the TDT while City Hall allows this zone to fester (fester means "to rot").

 

You think city leaders are keeping the area around the historically poverty stricken part of Orlando intentionally crappy to receive notoriety as a large city independent of Disney? 
 

I’ve heard some wild things on UP but this is exceptional.

[orlandocity87]

16 hours ago, jrs2 said:

sometimes I wonder if the stigma of Disney/tourist town has hit City Hall's ego to the extent that their mayoral office will gladly take slums as a badge of honor as something that big cities typically have just to show outsiders that there's more to Orlando than just Disney; that it behaves like a big city and the proof is "look at our slums!" so that people will see that and be like..."wow...I get to walk thru slums to get to the football stadium...this truly is a typical big city. and this is a big city stadium." 

...

I told people here on UP they need to ditch the Health Department and get rid of it.  Your comment deals mainly with Citrus Bowl.  But, go to the Soccer Stadium which is a block from the Health Department and observe Orlando's big city clout as dozens upon dozens of The Walking Dead loiter around the Health Department and neighboring bus stop- and in front of the Soccer Stadium along Central.   I guess it does wonders for Orlando's SGA Score, so someone somewhere is happy about that, while Citrus Sports tries to ignore this and snag that good $$$ from the TDT while City Hall allows this zone to fester (fester means "to rot").

I wouldn't go as far as saying anyone is promoting slums as a badge of honor. But, I've definitely had the feeling that sometimes we keep things looking rough in Orlando for the sake of looking urban or edgy or real. Or at least local leaders and business owners don't prioritize certain neighborhoods the way they should. (For example, I've griped enough about the state of Corrine and Mills while entire new street systems are being built in Medical City, Creative Village, and Packing District.) Unfortunately, Orlando lacks any substantial stock of multi-story, pre-war warehouses or apartment buildings. That's where other cities have had some of the best revitalization stories, while still looking authentic and "real." 

In terms of the Florida Department of Health—loitering aside—it's some of the worst urbanism you could build: a property spanning an entire city block with parking lots on both ends. What an opportunity to build affordable housing or assisted living there, with the health offices integrated or moved elsewhere. 

[jrs2]

18 hours ago, Uncommon said:

You think city leaders are keeping the area around the historically poverty stricken part of Orlando intentionally crappy to receive notoriety as a large city independent of Disney? 
 

I’ve heard some wild things on UP but this is exceptional.

no, I agree, it's a pretty crazy comment.

I think the reality is apathy and indifference.  they think Citrus Sports will still keep landing events (because they always do) so there's no reason to clean the area up.  I'm surprised the soccer people haven't complained about stuff yet (as far as anyone knows at least).

there is one bar on Church that I've been to that is a cool place- a block west of Amway (KIA).  But there used to be a club along Church at the corner with the Soccer stadium that shut down during covid.  it never reopened.  that bar was a key venue b/c of it's more central location between Citrus Bowl and Amway.  those are the types of venues where The City needs to bend over backwards to make sure they stay open, because they are catalyst venues.  once those shutter, you're otherwise done.

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, orlandocity87 said:

I wouldn't go as far as saying anyone is promoting slums as a badge of honor. But, I've definitely had the feeling that sometimes we keep things looking rough in Orlando for the sake of looking urban or edgy or real. Or at least local leaders and business owners don't prioritize certain neighborhoods the way they should. (For example, I've griped enough about the state of Corrine and Mills while entire new street systems are being built in Medical City, Creative Village, and Packing District.) Unfortunately, Orlando lacks any substantial stock of multi-story, pre-war warehouses or apartment buildings. That's where other cities have had some of the best revitalization stories, while still looking authentic and "real." 

In terms of the Florida Department of Health—loitering aside—it's some of the worst urbanism you could build: a property spanning an entire city block with parking lots on both ends. What an opportunity to build affordable housing or assisted living there, with the health offices integrated or moved elsewhere. 

they should probably move it near Lakeside Behavioral/ Aspire- way out there.  But it's location now is taking Parramore further down into The Pit.  I go to Popeyes every couple of weeks down Central...nothing has changed.

A lot of the businesses are fenced up and gated along Church and Central, which is good for the patrons walking from Citrus Bowl.  But its better to have a thing that creates a positive in a neighborhood than a thing that creates a negative.  If OPD can spend money on a new advanced HQ, can't The County spend some money on a new Health Department in a different location?  Maybe take over an old plaza like OCSO did...

[dcluley98]

Orlando City has spoken to the city about improving the area immediately around the stadium and protecting the "game day" experience. Jared Dillon is the main guy as President of Business Operations. He worked with the city to purchase the land directly to the east of the stadium and the church property that they demo'd. Orlando City now has an agreement to block off the streets and that whole block to have a "Game Day Experience" area and tailgating.  Both Church and Central are fenced off/closed to traffic on game days.  The team also has mentioned perhaps developing part of those lots as mixed-use in the future, but have never set forth any formal plans (other than just purchasing and clearing the lots). 

[orlandocity87]

That's good to hear. Although it's a shame they put a dedicated Lymmo route to the stadiums that 1) gets rerouted for every OCSC event and 2) doesn't reach the football stadium. 

Additionally, I hate that the the Magic put their training center's parking lot on the corner of what should be a great tailgating/city park surrounded by mixed-use buildings.