110 East: 23 story Tower by Stiles/Shorenstein

[Guest]

A fun parallel: when the church next door (Billy Graham’s childhood parish) was built they didn’t have enough money to complete the masonry around the back. The congregation worked together last minute to pool funds to finish the back corner in wood. I find it ironic that a hundred years later this successful developer can’t do what a small congregation of mill workers could. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by MothBeast

[CLT Development]

I'm going to quickly pop in here to burst a few bubbles. 

Let's talk parking decks for a minute. We hate 'em, we all do, developers do too, cuz they are expensive (anywhere from 25K to 75K a space). You know who doesn't hate them? The workers that are primarily driving to these structures because, for the most part, you cannot control where you work in Charlotte, and thus cannot plan your job around having no car. I am thankful to work in a place where I don't need to drive to Steel Creek or Rock Hill anymore. I moved to a transit-connected place because my goal was to do this everyday, it took me two years of effort, and like five years of personal brand building to find a job that allowed me this freedom.

There is no appetite in the NCGA to fund any transit project in Charlotte, there is no realistic chance that a comprehensive transit network will be approved possibly in the lifetimes of some on this board. No potential office tenant is going to say "I'm only going to ONLY commit to candidates that can reasonably take the transit to work." This would create a massive recruiting problem for them. If an office tower didn't have parking, it wouldn't get leased, and since it wouldn't be leased, it wouldn't be financed, and since it wouldn't get financed, it wouldn't get built. This is why marketing materials for Lowes Tower dedicated like 1/2 a page to East West Station but like 3 pages to the parking deck, I-77, I-277 and more.

We hate it, but guys, it's not changing, and unless it's tenant-built and occupied, and that tenant is a Fortune 20 company that can afford it, it's likely not getting buried either. Nobody is going to spend an extra $10,000,000 on a building they don't have a guaranteed tenant for.

So why can Spacecraft do it in South End and Grubb in Seversville? Well that's because you can actually choose where you live, and its much easier to find 350 people that are willing to give up having a car, than it is to force 1500 people to come to an office every day without one. So can we get back to something else, we get it, you hate the deck. The naked corner is horrid for sure, but honestly, theres a fairly large retail space coming to a submarket where things are getting leased VERY quickly. You can't even see the parking deck from the retail space because it cantilevers over. Be excited, and unless you have something constructive to say, stop complaining about this project.  We get it, it offends you. 

This is in no way to anyone in particular but just addressing the overall beotch fest that this board has become. 

XOXO CLT Development

Edited December 15, 2023 by CLT Development

[CTiger]

While that's all fine and good,  it needs to be said that this parking garage is effing ugly and is in one of the most active areas of the city so we all have to look at it for the next hundred years.  You'll notice that nobody is really complaining about the parking garage right across the street at the Greystar development because they did a good job hiding it.   When you look at this building though, you see parking garage first and building second.  The design bothers me more than the parking itself.

The retail can still save this thing.  Remember how much we all griped about the parking garage at Atherton Mill (which is still very ugly) but the retail filled in nicely and now I hardly notice it anymore.

 

[Guest]

I haven’t seen as many complaints about this deck existing in the first place as much as about the design and size of it. I agree beotching does no good but I am wondering what we can do as a community to improve the regulation of parking deck design in these high rises. Solutions not problems.

Edited December 15, 2023 by MothBeast

[15895]

2 hours ago, CLT Development said:

I'm going to quickly pop in here to burst a few bubbles. 

Let's talk parking decks for a minute. We hate 'em, we all do, developers do too, cuz they are expensive (anywhere from 25K to 75K a space). You know who doesn't hate them? The workers that are primarily driving to these structures because, for the most part, you cannot control where you work in Charlotte, and thus cannot plan your job around having no car. I am thankful to work in a place where I don't need to drive to Steel Creek or Rock Hill anymore. I moved to a transit-connected place because my goal was to do this everyday, it took me two years of effort, and like five years of personal brand building to find a job that allowed me this freedom.

There is no appetite in the NCGA to fund any transit project in Charlotte, there is no realistic chance that a comprehensive transit network will be approved possibly in the lifetimes of some on this board. No potential office tenant is going to say "I'm only going to ONLY commit to candidates that can reasonably take the transit to work." This would create a massive recruiting problem for them. If an office tower didn't have parking, it wouldn't get leased, and since it wouldn't be leased, it wouldn't be financed, and since it wouldn't get financed, it wouldn't get built. This is why marketing materials for Lowes Tower dedicated like 1/2 a page to East West Station but like 3 pages to the parking deck, I-77, I-277 and more.

We hate it, but guys, it's not changing, and unless it's tenant-built and occupied, and that tenant is a Fortune 20 company that can afford it, it's likely not getting buried either. Nobody is going to spend an extra $10,000,000 on a building they don't have a guaranteed tenant for.

So why can Spacecraft do it in South End and Grubb in Seversville? Well that's because you can actually choose where you live, and its much easier to find 350 people that are willing to give up having a car, than it is to force 1500 people to come to an office every day without one. So can we get back to something else, we get it, you hate the deck. The naked corner is horrid for sure, but honestly, theres a fairly large retail space coming to a submarket where things are getting leased VERY quickly. You can't even see the parking deck from the retail space because it cantilevers over. Be excited, and unless you have something constructive to say, stop complaining about this project.  We get it, it offends you. 

This is in no way to anyone in particular but just addressing the overall beotch fest that this board has become. 

XOXO CLT Development

I, personally, will post whatever I like until banned. 

I don’t think I’ve complained much about the parking deck (I’ve never seen a rendering look almost exactly like it does in real life). It is what it is & totally expected. I’m not too worried about it given it’s not the trend & most of SouthEnd has had pretty good development so. It’s a missed opportunity but it is what it is. 

But if people complain about it, let them complain. It’s no different than people who are overly rosy about everything. If people wanna posT complaints, cool. If they wanna be rosy, cool. I rather have discussion than people monitoring comments trying to limit discussion.

I will say, however, if the city refused to let them build it without spending the additional $10MM to look better…. It might make more financial sense for them to spend the $10MM. What does a developer do if they don’t develop because they don’t like certain regulations? I’m not the biggest fan of only seeing things from the perspective of a developer and their financials. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[CLT Development]

51 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I, personally, will post whatever I like until banned. 

I don’t think I’ve complained much about the parking deck (I’ve never seen a rendering look almost exactly like it does in real life). It is what it is & totally expected. I’m not too worried about it given it’s not the trend & most of SouthEnd has had pretty good development so. It’s a missed opportunity but it is what it is. 

But if people complain about it, let them complain. It’s no different than people who are overly rosy about everything. If people wanna posT complaints, cool. If they wanna be rosy, cool. I rather have discussion than people monitoring comments trying to limit discussion.

I will say, however, if the city refused to let them build it without spending the additional $10MM to look better…. It might make more financial sense for them to spend the $10MM. What does a developer do if they don’t develop because they don’t like certain regulations? I’m not the biggest fan of only seeing things from the perspective of a developer and their financials. 

Speaking that the developer has spent probably the most money of anyone outside Crescent to screen a parking a deck in Charlotte, and has done a very ambitious metal perforated design that wraps 95% of the deck, I think FORCING them to spend $10M would be a great incentive not to build in the city of Charlotte, which has been a boom town largely because its business friendly atmosphere. 

[15895]

8 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

Speaking that the developer has spent probably the most money of anyone outside Crescent to screen a parking a deck in Charlotte, and has done a very ambitious metal perforated design that wraps 95% of the deck, I think FORCING them to spend $10M would be a great incentive not to build in the city of Charlotte, which has been a boom town largely because its business friendly atmosphere. 

So basically, like Houston. 

Who cares If they don’t build that in Charlotte? Maybe Queens Bridge wouldn’t have shrunk in size without the competition? If less people build, rents go up, then someone else wants to build. 

We’re talking about skyscrapers. The Charlotte economy isn’t built around skyscrapers so it’s not like the economy would go south…

It’s not going to affect the growth of Charlotte one way or another whether Charlotte tries to push development to conform a certain way or not. If this were something like Jacking up cost per passenger at CLT airport to make it look better, American could leave because that fundamentally changes what makes the airport successful (low cost). The Charlotte economy isn’t built around skyscraper construction. It’s not that 

Uptown had the giant legacy Union buildings. They look sad at the ground. New Duke tower? Sad. Development is shifting to SouthEnd. I don’t think it’s a net positive to always focus on a project in a vacuum. Better projects means more people want to build there too… Honeywell, Truist, Lending Tree, etc would’ve came to Charlotte because of the talent, business climate, etc. Extra cost in the building is not going to dissuade the economic activity. 

Speaking of which… SouthEnd getting more action these days… The developments matter. Somebody… would build for a Fortune 500… 

 

[Synopsis101]

8 hours ago, CLT Development said:

 

That corner will be at least partially obscured from most views by the second phase of this project.

That’s what they said about Ascent Uptown lol.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Synopsis101

[CLT Development]

22 hours ago, Synopsis101 said:

That’s what they said about Ascent Uptown lol.

Except Greystar didn't control the backside of Ascent, 110 East's developer does. 

On 12/15/2023 at 6:13 PM, AirNostrumMAD said:

So basically, like Houston. 

Who cares If they don’t build that in Charlotte? Maybe Queens Bridge wouldn’t have shrunk in size without the competition? If less people build, rents go up, then someone else wants to build. 

We’re talking about skyscrapers. The Charlotte economy isn’t built around skyscrapers so it’s not like the economy would go south…

It’s not going to affect the growth of Charlotte one way or another whether Charlotte tries to push development to conform a certain way or not. If this were something like Jacking up cost per passenger at CLT airport to make it look better, American could leave because that fundamentally changes what makes the airport successful (low cost). The Charlotte economy isn’t built around skyscraper construction. It’s not that 

Uptown had the giant legacy Union buildings. They look sad at the ground. New Duke tower? Sad. Development is shifting to SouthEnd. I don’t think it’s a net positive to always focus on a project in a vacuum. Better projects means more people want to build there too… Honeywell, Truist, Lending Tree, etc would’ve came to Charlotte because of the talent, business climate, etc. Extra cost in the building is not going to dissuade the economic activity. 

Speaking of which… SouthEnd getting more action these days… The developments matter. Somebody… would build for a Fortune 500… 

 

A lot of assumptions in this post that just aren't correct. Also, what does Houston, a city an economy 2.5x the size of ours have to do with this?  

[15895]

14 hours ago, CLT Development said:

Except Greystar didn't control the backside of Ascent, 110 East's developer does. 

A lot of assumptions in this post that just aren't correct. Also, what does Houston, a city an economy 2.5x the size of ours have to do with this?  

I didn’t mean the size of Houston, I meant in general low taxes leading to high growth model.

We can leave this alone though. My main point was, let people post about whatever they want. I find cheerleader boosterism to be excessive and sometimes cringe but I go about my day, don’t respond & silence, so. 

At this point, some people want the following rules: Don’t criticize anything too much (as a collective), don’t mention any other city/region (unless it’s a negative about the other place or a list saying Charlotte is high ranking), don’t correct factually wrong things stated that are easily verifiable (light rail ridership, uptown population, etc. like the post below)

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/43281-charlottes-light-rail-lynx-blue-line/page/264/

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[CLT Development]

2 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I didn’t mean the size of Houston, I meant in general low taxes leading to high growth model.

We can leave this alone though. My main point was, let people post about whatever they want. I find cheerleader boosterism to be excessive and sometimes cringe but I go about my day, don’t respond & silence, so. 

At this point, some people want the following rules: Don’t criticize anything too much (as a collective), don’t mention any other city/region (unless it’s a negative about the other place or a list saying Charlotte is high ranking), don’t correct factually wrong things stated that are easily verifiable (light rail ridership, uptown population, etc. like the post below)

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/43281-charlottes-light-rail-lynx-blue-line/page/264/

 

Nobody is being a booster/cheerleader, especially not me who criticizes this city publicly all the time. On the flip side, this board has gotten so impossibly negative all the time that it's tiresome to even share things here. We get it people don't like X project, but do we really have to rehash and beleaguer it every single time a new photo is shared? People spend so much time whining about things that cannot be changed it's crazy.

[SydneyCarton]

I think it looks great.  Also, new buildings in much bigger cities like Dallas, Miami, Houston, Atlanta, and even Chicago have garages like that.

Edited December 17, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[RANYC]

On 12/15/2023 at 3:39 PM, CTiger said:

While that's all fine and good,  it needs to be said that this parking garage is effing ugly and is in one of the most active areas of the city so we all have to look at it for the next hundred years.  You'll notice that nobody is really complaining about the parking garage right across the street at the Greystar development because they did a good job hiding it.   When you look at this building though, you see parking garage first and building second.  The design bothers me more than the parking itself.

The retail can still save this thing.  Remember how much we all griped about the parking garage at Atherton Mill (which is still very ugly) but the retail filled in nicely and now I hardly notice it anymore.

 

It could be better and I suspect there are ways this garage could have been hidden by the developer that were not exploited.  

I don’t want to downplay that one of the reasons there were no design challenges to this garage is that so many of the high-rise/high-tenant/high-parking demand things built in south end are built by right given the mass rezoning in like 2018/2019.  Also, even if council had provisioned for public input into design, the neighborhood appears to lack a constituency to argue for better anyway.

I sense there are competing definitions of urban progress on this board.  Some want muscular, big city high-rises even when such high-rises potentially drop hundreds of parked vehicles right next to a transit station.  

Others would rather have had South End densify and become more walkable with low-rises and mid-rises, not unlike a downtown Asheville vibe, or hell, even Main Street kannapolis feel.  The idea there being that low-rise densification may not have needed the same scale of podiums to service surges in parking demand in relatively confined spaces.

I once read that one phenomenon that killed the historical building stock in American downtowns that we love to marvel at in black and white photos was actually the high-rise.  These high-rises intensified parking demand in relatively small areas in downtown and as a result, old walkable buildings were demolished and gave way to surface lots to accommodate suburbanites driving in who didn’t have spaces in any embedded garages within the high-rise.  Had the high-rises not come, much of the historical building stock may have survived and would have been primed for large-scale revitalization once America refocused on its cities.  

We’ll see what South End becomes, whether it can possess and protect a charm and character that outlast its time as a real estate darling.

Edited December 17, 2023 by RANYC

[RANYC]

25 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Podium or not, I do love our trees, especially that side of South where they’ve not been butchered for power lines.

2 hours ago, CLT Development said:

Nobody is being a booster/cheerleader, especially not me who criticizes this city publicly all the time. On the flip side, this board has gotten so impossibly negative all the time that it's tiresome to even share things here. We get it people don't like X project, but do we really have to rehash and beleaguer it every single time a new photo is shared? People spend so much time whining about things that cannot be changed it's crazy.

Well what is urbanplanet’s purpose actually?  Was it meant to be a preview of what’s coming, sort of a showcasing, or was it meant to be a kind of ideas forum to inform / reconcile people’s relationships with the urban changes happening around them.  I genuinely don’t know.  I see value in both purposes. 

[RANYC]

46 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I think it looks great.  Also, new buildings in much bigger cities like Dallas, Miami, Houston, Atlanta, and even Chicago have garages like that.

As south end sees more vertical buildings, this will just sort of fade.  Right now, its scrutiny is a result of the monument effect.  That goes away as the building sees lots more “company.”

[15895]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

I think it looks great.  Also, new buildings in much bigger cities like Dallas, Miami, Houston, Atlanta, and even Chicago have garages like that.

Lmao. Which herein lies the problem. You mentioned Chicago - a city that triggers people. That is one of the cities we aren’t supposed to mention. Do we really want to talk about Chicago development? No. 

Just because multiple people share an opinion that happens to be similar doesn’t mean any one person is over sharing… 

I have opinions about the Duke Energy tower. Every single time I see pictures, it looks soul crushing at the base. But it’s overall nice looking. It’s not offensive. It’s not terrible and it’s probably more so the location than the actual development itself. So it’s hard for me to criticize it too much because I’m not even sure how many changes could be made to make it less sterile. It’s moreso a symptom of the location. This project, it’s self-inflicted. And from what CLTDev said, it was purely about the bottom line and delivering for investors (none of which are North/South Carolina based). If Legacy Union was developed differently at the base, I imagine things on South Tryon would look very different and surrounding developments would have stronger leasing opportunities for retail & restaurants.

I dunno the exact org structure of the property, but one of the entities for example… 

 

The financials become different if the regulations require certain things. Literally, the people working on it are probably suburbanites somewhere in a different region working on 10 properties on one specific piece of it and just want to close as fast as possible. Why add extra complexity? None of them are incentivized for a random project on paper in a random area. If there was a requirement, legal counsel would say “oh, local laws require xyz” and they’d adjust their numbers accordingly… Will it always pencil out? No. And that’s not a bad thing. Bad projects have ripple effects. Not saying this is bad, but it’s not really positive. It also makes the appraisals harder to justify certain cost in the future when the competitors took shortcuts and Lenders typically rely heavily on market comps from existing competitors. 
 

Which again. There’s the lense through the developers eyes and goals & then there’s the civic side whose goal is to make our neighborhoods stronger & better. 
 

It seems trivial but look at epicenter. It’s a beacon of failure associated with a hands-off, low regulation government. And its policies based on developers that killed Epicenter. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[Nathan2]

On 12/15/2023 at 3:14 PM, CLT Development said:

I'm going to quickly pop in here to burst a few bubbles. 

Let's talk parking decks for a minute. We hate 'em, we all do, developers do too, cuz they are expensive (anywhere from 25K to 75K a space). You know who doesn't hate them? The workers that are primarily driving to these structures because, for the most part, you cannot control where you work in Charlotte, and thus cannot plan your job around having no car. I am thankful to work in a place where I don't need to drive to Steel Creek or Rock Hill anymore. I moved to a transit-connected place because my goal was to do this everyday, it took me two years of effort, and like five years of personal brand building to find a job that allowed me this freedom.

There is no appetite in the NCGA to fund any transit project in Charlotte, there is no realistic chance that a comprehensive transit network will be approved possibly in the lifetimes of some on this board. No potential office tenant is going to say "I'm only going to ONLY commit to candidates that can reasonably take the transit to work." This would create a massive recruiting problem for them. If an office tower didn't have parking, it wouldn't get leased, and since it wouldn't be leased, it wouldn't be financed, and since it wouldn't get financed, it wouldn't get built. This is why marketing materials for Lowes Tower dedicated like 1/2 a page to East West Station but like 3 pages to the parking deck, I-77, I-277 and more.

We hate it, but guys, it's not changing, and unless it's tenant-built and occupied, and that tenant is a Fortune 20 company that can afford it, it's likely not getting buried either. Nobody is going to spend an extra $10,000,000 on a building they don't have a guaranteed tenant for.

So why can Spacecraft do it in South End and Grubb in Seversville? Well that's because you can actually choose where you live, and its much easier to find 350 people that are willing to give up having a car, than it is to force 1500 people to come to an office every day without one. So can we get back to something else, we get it, you hate the deck. The naked corner is horrid for sure, but honestly, theres a fairly large retail space coming to a submarket where things are getting leased VERY quickly. You can't even see the parking deck from the retail space because it cantilevers over. Be excited, and unless you have something constructive to say, stop complaining about this project.  We get it, it offends you. 

This is in no way to anyone in particular but just addressing the overall beotch fest that this board has become. 

XOXO CLT Development

This is such a crap take. God forbid a developer puts a sliver of effort into their buildings which become the fabric of our city and determine how people interact with it. You of all people should understand that. We all here understand that a parking deck is necessary, what is not necessary is doing absolutely nothing to blend the garage into the overall design of the building. The level of awful design that is affecting the pedestrian street level interaction and feel of our neighborhoods is going to have a lasting negative effect that pushed people off of sidewalks and into their cars. A skyline full of skyscrapers looks great but has no bearing on the greatness of a city. 

[Nathan2]

22 hours ago, CLT Development said:

Nobody is being a booster/cheerleader, especially not me who criticizes this city publicly all the time. On the flip side, this board has gotten so impossibly negative all the time that it's tiresome to even share things here. We get it people don't like X project, but do we really have to rehash and beleaguer it every single time a new photo is shared? People spend so much time whining about things that cannot be changed it's crazy.

I think the problem is people like you who act like you can determine what is and isn't criticism just because you have your "ins" with developers.  Everyone can have an opinion whether it's negative or positive, that is the point of a site like urbanplanet. Some of us don't like to rollover to every proposed development in the city and know that Charlotte deserves better. Maybe the constant negativity from people on new projects is a sign that Charlotte isn't getting great development. Growth for the sake of growth isn't always a positive. 

[CLT Development]

48 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

This is such a crap take. God forbid a developer puts a sliver of effort into their buildings which become the fabric of our city and determine how people interact with it. You of all people should understand that. We all here understand that a parking deck is necessary, what is not necessary is doing absolutely nothing to blend the garage into the overall design of the building. The level of awful design that is affecting the pedestrian street level interaction and feel of our neighborhoods is going to have a lasting negative effect that pushed people off of sidewalks and into their cars. A skyline full of skyscrapers looks great but has no bearing on the greatness of a city. 

“A sliver of effort” Jesus Christ they designed and encased almost an entire 10 floor structure with metal panels and the geometry of those panels feed directly into the metal fins on the glass curtain walls. They literally put in a crap ton of effort, you just don’t like the execution which is literally not yet done, and it’s quite frankly one of the best attempts at masking a parking deck on a contemporary designed buildings I’ve seen. Rolling over, you gotta be crapting me, I’ve been the biggest voice in this city for pushing for better design and specifically for deck screening, which we got a crap ton of here. I’m not trying to say “don’t share grievances,” I’m trying to say maybe be constructive and not completely hyperbolic, which “sliver of effort,” is the epitome of hyperbolic. Also "we all understand that a parking deck is necessary" no, half the takes have been "we don't need a parking deck because there's a train."

40 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

I think the problem is people like you who act like you can determine what is and isn't criticism just because you have your "ins" with developers.  Everyone can have an opinion whether it's negative or positive, that is the point of a site like urbanplanet. Some of us don't like to rollover to every proposed development in the city and know that Charlotte deserves better. Maybe the constant negativity from people on new projects is a sign that Charlotte isn't getting great development. Growth for the sake of growth isn't always a positive. 

I could give a flying fudge what you think about my “ins” with developers. crap, I don’t really care about what developers have to say. People come to me for my take and my perspective, they don’t come to me because I’ll echo their talking points, it’s quite the opposite. When DFA building was first announced Jason and I created such a stir on the street design that they went back to the drawing board. I have pushed so many developers to think about how they approach the public realm and advocate heavily in my various roles in local government and neighborhood-level governance that transit, pedestrian infrastructure, and pedestrian focus are held in the utmost regard.

The constant negatively is because social media has broken everyone’s brains to think that’s how you make a difference. It’s not. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by CLT Development

[Nathan2]

1 minute ago, CLT Development said:

“A sliver of effort” Jesus Christ they designed and encased almost an entire 10-floor structure with metal panels and the geometry of those panels feed directly into the metal fins on the glass curtain walls. They literally put in a crap ton of effort, you just don’t like the execution which is literally not yet done, and it’s quite frankly one of the best attempts at masking a parking deck on a contemporary designed buildings I’ve seen. Rolling over, you gotta be crapting me, I’ve been the biggest voice in this city for pushing for better design and specifically for deck screening, which we got a crap ton of here. I’m not trying to say “don’t share grievances,” I’m trying to say maybe be constructive and not completely hyperbolic, which “sliver of effort,” is the epitome of hyperbolic. 

That's absolutely your opinion and I respect that. But that is not the opinion of most of the people in the group and the people I know when showing them Charlotte. If that is a crap ton of effort, then I am scared of the future of architecture and design. Screening does not automatically equal good. 

I do appreciate all you have done for sharing development news and being part of the Planning Committee but your opinions don't always represent everyone.  Having the "biggest" voice does not invalidate everyone else's opinions and concerns or make you the voice of reason. The point of being on a committee is to hear out everyone and consider those concerns when making recommendations. 

[videtur quam contuor]

This structure looks more like the rendering from X years ago than maybe any other project in recent time. I mentioned this very issue not long ago. The appearance of the parking portion can be separated from the amount of parking in the structure.

I have no agency in this pyramid of concern.

[CLT Development]

5 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

Having the "biggest" voice does not invalidate everyone else's opinions and concerns or make you the voice of reason. The point of being on a committee is to hear out everyone and consider those concerns when making recommendations. 

When did I say that it invalidated anything? I have heard everyone's opinion and I understand that many don't like it. I'm not trying to tell anyone to think any differently. I'm just asking that people stop voicing it every single time a picture goes up. We get it, can we let the damn building be finished and the retail filled to give an opinion? Then, by all means, pile on, I just think it's rather reductive. 

[AltNative]

51 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

When DFA building was first announced Jason and I created such a stir on the street design that they went back to the drawing board.

Would you mind elaborating on this? I'm not familiar with the story but it sounds interesting and I love that building

[Rufus]

Deleted

Edited December 18, 2023 by Rufus
Deletion

[Reverie39]

People have a right to complain about things, but by extension people also have a right to complain about people complaining about things. Lol. 

What isn't great is when complaints turn into attacks. I am surprised by how frequently threads on this site become arguments, considering generally most posters want the same things for their city.