CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[Spartan]

Union County will undoubtedly be moochers just like York. There isn't a great way to force them to pay that doesn't negatively impact Meck County residents.

Even though there are quite a few planned changes to Independence that will help traffic flow in the short term, it's still going to be the worst freeway-like facility in the city by far. I think having rail transit will be successful as long as they can guarantee travel times. 

[Deleted.]

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/46045/silver-line-plans-east-charlotte/

Good Agenda showing the different options that have be narrowed down for the Silver Line and how it would be routed into Uptown.

[dcharlotte]

Keep the alignment as far away from the streetcar as possible. Light rail wasn't made to go on surface streets and nobody will ever ride the system if they can get from Matthews to 277 in the same amount of time it takes to crawl from 277 to CTC. 

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, Piedmont767 said:

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/46045/silver-line-plans-east-charlotte/

Good Agenda showing the different options that have be narrowed down for the Silver Line and how it would be routed into Uptown.

I think I spy a UP'er in one of those workshop photos...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

I think I spy a UP'er in one of those workshop photos...

You caught me, I'm clearly the cute blonde in the middle of the picture.

[nonillogical]

7 hours ago, dcharlotte said:

Keep the alignment as far away from the streetcar as possible. Light rail wasn't made to go on surface streets and nobody will ever ride the system if they can get from Matthews to 277 in the same amount of time it takes to crawl from 277 to CTC. 

I was in Denver this past week and checked out their light rail system. While it seems to work better than I expected in travel lanes in and around downtown, it is very slow and didn't seem nearly as packed as our line does at rush hour. Granted it is a much bigger network so the clusters of riders are probably more dispersed than our single line. 

[asthasr]

I just hope, in the far future when this is built, they stay as far from Independence as possible.

[Norm2]

As far as how the light rail would get into Uptown from Independence, I think options 1 or 4 are best.

[15895]

24 minutes ago, asthasr said:

I just hope, in the far future when this is built, they stay as far from Independence as possible.

I would've agreed with you in the past, but I wonder how much the cost savings would be if it ran parallel to Indy? Would it interact less with local streets?

 

I mean, at this point, in skeptical of how much TOD mass transit will create in the middle. I think TOD is going to be in center city and at the end of the lines (if there is a strong anchor like UNCC for the blue line or Matthews for the Silver Line).

 

I prefer the B4 option

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by AirNostrumMAD

[asthasr]

I disagree. I think TOD will happen on the further-flung stations as the system develops and it becomes more practical to live in Charlotte without a car. Worth remembering we've had the Blue Line less than ten years, 2008-2012 was a recession, and development is creeping down South Blvd.

[michaelef]

I was at the meeting tonight and they said that it will NOT run down the middle of independence. That is being reserved for ramped up Bus service. They had some plans with it running parallel to Independence and trying to get a rail trail with it. So they are definitely trying to get some TOD a long independence. 

[southslider]

All of the alternatives seem to share four potential stations along or very close to Independence: 1) Pecan, 2) Coliseum/Ovens, 3) Coliseum Shopping Center, and 4) Idlewild/Conference.  East of Village Lake, there are alternatives to get off Independence, either there or in Matthews.

1) Pecan is already seeing tremendous urban infill. This area will continue to be TOD-like, with or without a station. But with all its historic/new density, and even nightlife, I'm glad all alternatives serve this area.

2) Coliseum/Ovens has joint development potential in the large City-owned parking lots. The former Merchandise Mart site is greatly underutilized. And I can see the balance of smaller parcels towards Monroe Rd also redeveloping. Plus, like Pecan's nightlife, special events here will be great for non-commuter ridership. 

3) Coliseum Shopping Center is tricky to see how it may redevelop without a frontage road and/or station. I only worry the street connection coming relatively soon via approved bonds will set up a more auto-oriented development that's harder to re-orient, when rail comes much later. But with the adoption of an alignment, hopefully, a phasing plan will be devised.

4) The Meridian is already developing along Monroe Rd, adding urban rooftops. Hopefully, the balance of the station area closer to Independence, plus adjoining sites between Monroe and Independence, can all redevelop into more mixed-use projects.  If South Charlotte already travels to Independence to buy luxury cars, it seems in the realm of possibility to support more urban retail and office. But again, hopefully, the area plan vision helps set up that infill in a way that can replace blighted strip centers in the near-future, yet ultimately, have a stronger TOD far-future.

Edited April 8, 2016 by southslider

[rancenc]

I was curious to know if anyone has insider knowledge about a possible connection of a Concord/Kannapolis Transit route(s) to the new light rail station either at UNCC campus or the JW Clay station.  Attached is the current map of the Concord/Kannapolis transit routes.  As you can see the system ends of Concord Mills Mall, so going an additional 3-4 miles south should not be an issue.

http://www.ckrider.com/MapsSchedules/SystemMap.aspx

[Third Strike]

1 hour ago, rancenc said:

I was curious to know if anyone has insider knowledge about a possible connection of a Concord/Kannapolis Transit route(s) to the new light rail station either at UNCC campus or the JW Clay station.  Attached is the current map of the Concord/Kannapolis transit routes.  As you can see the system ends of Concord Mills Mall, so going an additional 3-4 miles south should not be an issue.

http://www.ckrider.com/MapsSchedules/SystemMap.aspx

Extending the Blue Line out to Concord Mills seems like the next logical choice for our transit system. You might need more population density along this route to justify it, though. The same is true of extending the line to downtown Concord, especially since there's very little located along US 29 between Charlotte and Concord. I think a commuter rail line would best suit these cities, rather than a light rail expansion. Though, once these cities become big enough (Concord will either be the tenth or eleventh city to pass the 100k mark), maybe they could look into funding a streetcar line between downtown Concord and downtown Kannapolis. But I wouldn't expect something like that for at least a couple of decades.  

[southslider]

CK Rider will have opportunity to serve the JW Clay station. UNCC main station is reserved for campus shuttles. CATS may operate an express route between JW Clay and Concord Transit Center and/or Concord Mills.

[Deleted.]

42 minutes ago, Third Strike said:

Extending the Blue Line out to Concord Mills seems like the next logical choice for our transit system. You might need more population density along this route to justify it, though. The same is true of extending the line to downtown Concord, especially since there's very little located along US 29 between Charlotte and Concord. I think a commuter rail line would best suit these cities, rather than a light rail expansion. Though, once these cities become big enough (Concord will either be the tenth or eleventh city to pass the 100k mark), maybe they could look into funding a streetcar line between downtown Concord and downtown Kannapolis. But I wouldn't expect something like that for at least a couple of decades.  

How is extending light rail to a different county more logically than extending it to a major population center and the nations' 7th largest airport inside our own county? 

[Third Strike]

1 hour ago, Piedmont767 said:

How is extending light rail to a different county more logically than extending it to a major population center and the nations' 7th largest airport inside our own county? 

My apologies, I meant in regards to expanding the Blue Line in that direction. The Silver Line is the next most important corridor that should be built, then the airport.

[Spartan]

If Cabarrus County wants to pay for it, then I would be 100% behind that expansion. Even ahead of the Silver Line. It seems unlikely, though, that they would pass a transit tax up there. (I'm making the assumption that the current ban on light rail and new taxes will go away at some point). 

[alb1no panther]

Anyone know if a stop along the Blue Line will be added at Atherton Mill once it's reno is complete?  There is a lot of stuff happening in that area between East/West and New Bern stations.  Would be nice to make it more walkable by adding an extra platform.

[Deleted.]

/\ There's a plan to add a station at Atherton but no timing or funding is known. 

[kermit]

So it sounds like CATS will dangle the possibility of LRT to Matthews to the public in return for more transit tax revenue. Its not a bad plan, but it will require a total change of heart in Raleigh for the plan to work.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article71635297.html

 

[Deleted.]

I don't think Raleigh is going to play ball with Charlotte. Maybe Charlotte can 'team-up' with Chapel Hill to try and lobby Raleigh to change the funding law?

[alb1no panther]

Honestly, I don't know how they aren't just handing money to CATS.  I had business obligations in Union County for 5 straight days and had to commute through that muck every morning at 7 am and every evening around 5:30.  

[Nick2]

According to the article they would have it be stop and go with lights along the monroe rd. pathway? That seems pretty undesirable for speed's sake. It's definitely a good thing they decided against building down the center of independence so that more natural development could grow up along the route. And this will be great since it could be extened out to monroe pretty easily. What are the chances Union county agrees to pay for the silver line or an extension?

Was tunneling under Uptown ever seriously looked at or is it way too expensive to even consider?

[kermit]

12 minutes ago, Nick2 said:

 What are the chances Union county agrees to pay for the silver line or an extension?

Was tunneling under Uptown ever seriously looked at or is it way too expensive to even consider?

RE Union County: No chance they pay a dime. Despite appearances they are the most fiscally challenged county in the state (sprawl mixed with tea party politics can't come close to paying the bills). In addition they lack logical place to terminate the Silver Line.

RE tunneling: Not even close to being on CATS radar due to costs.

Edited April 14, 2016 by kermit