Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[smeagolsfree]

I just realized that with the crane at Neuhoff, Modera Germantown, and the water treatment facility, we have a first! This is the first time we have had 3 tower cranes up in Germantown at the same time and I think we may be getting 1 or 2 more at Neuhoff looking at the ground work being done there.

[MLBrumby]

I have a (recurring) question for Sir Smeagolsopolous! OK.. sorry for that, but it's a weird afternoon.  Anyway, to the question... do you think developers in Nashville initiailly "overask" with their proposals with every intention of scaling down after the expected resistance? In effect, are they testing what they might get away with, or do they actually wish to build the bigger (usually) projects they first propose?  I get your point that the DT codes will be (should be) changed in response to what's been happening in that area, and it seems this is just an ongoing game between developers and Metro. 

Several posters here actually talk with developers regularly and I wonder what the thinking is. I go back to what I've said a number of times in situations like this: If developers showed those in opposition to their grand plans what they would be able to build without any zoning changes (say, an enormous big chunk of a building of 200' that would block views from all around it) would that persuade many in opposition to take the better bargain. I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that the initial plans with the three towers and the open space between them would have given the people in City Lights a better range of views and more sunset light than what could be built there already by rights.  If I had a view unit in CL facing west, I'd much prefer to have the views of several different buidings with some sunlight between them than a huge wall of windows directly across the street. No?  What am I not getting in this game? 

Edited October 10, 2021 by MLBrumby

[smeagolsfree]

I wish I Could honestly answer that question but I can’t. I think all we can do is speculate and offer our own bit of conjecture.

Many of these projects are presented to planning months ahead of time as well as to the council person in that district. There are also community meetings held sometimes before these projects are ever brought  to the publics attention, but a lot of we get wind of them beforehand.

I also think that some developers keep the cards close to the vest knowing what they can do by rights and then show the plans to the planning dept. and say here ya go. This is what I am going to do, here’s the paper work, lets get it done. 

[Dreid1]

On 10/9/2021 at 10:37 AM, Brit_in_Gtown said:

I own a couple of those types of drills. The drilling on site right now is almost certainly for blasting. The pattern spacing I saw looks to be for mass excavation, maybe for below grade parking or stormwater retention. 

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the insight! I can certainly feel the Neuhoff blasting shake my complex intermittently. I guess I’ll have this one to look forward to next…

[Brit_in_Gtown]

21 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

I have a (recurring) question for Sir Smeagolsopolous! OK.. sorry for that, but it's a weird afternoon.  Anyway, to the question... do you think developers in Nashville initiailly "overask" with their proposals with every intention of scaling down after the expected resistance? In effect, are they testing what they might get away with, or do they actually wish to build the bigger (usually) projects they first propose?  I get your point that the DT codes will be (should be) changed in response to what's been happening in that area, and it seems this is just an ongoing game between developers and Metro. 

Several posters here actually talk with developers regularly and I wonder what the thinking is. I go back to what I've said a number of times in situations like this: If developers showed those in opposition to their grand plans what they would be able to build without any zoning changes (say, an enormous big chunk of a building of 200' that would block views from all around it) would that persuade many in opposition to take the better bargain. I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that the initial plans with the three towers and the open space between them would have given the people in City Lights a better range of views and more sunset light than what could be built there already by rights.  If I had a view unit in CL facing west, I'd much prefer to have the views of several different buidings with some sunlight between them than a huge wall of windows directly across the street. No?  What am I not getting in this game? 

I've been in this exact same scenario. I wanted to do an SP for a more attractive concept and wanted 3 more units to offset the cost of alley loaded garages. The community shot it down because they thought they were stopping development despite me making it clear that I would just go with regular zoning and an inferior concept. So we went with a boring cul de sac with a bulb at the end. Dumb. Nothing I'm going to be proud of creating. 

[smeagolsfree]

The  thing is you have to trick the neighbors into liking what you have to offer and educating them. It starts with the Council person. The thing they hate most are the STR’s. If they think that STR’s are involved number one you have lost, but one of the big issue you are facing when you have alleys is front loading garages. You are probably not going to get the waiver. I am not sure where you were trying to get he waiver but I would bet somewhere in E Nashville where front loaders are nasty words depending on the district. 

 

[markhollin]

The Nell (5 thru 8 stories, 78 condos, internal garage at 629 7th Ave. South) has landed a $33 million construction loan from Knighthead Funding LLC.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2021/10/12/deal-dash-highwoods-closes-pizzuti-vp.html

[Brit_in_Gtown]

On 10/11/2021 at 2:31 PM, smeagolsfree said:

The  thing is you have to trick the neighbors into liking what you have to offer and educating them. It starts with the Council person. The thing they hate most are the STR’s. If they think that STR’s are involved number one you have lost, but one of the big issue you are facing when you have alleys is front loading garages. You are probably not going to get the waiver. I am not sure where you were trying to get he waiver but I would bet somewhere in E Nashville where front loaders are nasty words depending on the district. 

 

Glencliff area. I wanted rear load in the SP. Specifically no STRP. It got to a point where the community including people who literally lived 12 miles away were getting involved, So I said F it. After I decided that, they were like, oh can you do your original concept plan. I said. Nope. That ship has sailed. 

[smeagolsfree]

10 hours ago, Brit_in_Gtown said:

Glencliff area. I wanted rear load in the SP. Specifically no STRP. It got to a point where the community including people who literally lived 12 miles away were getting involved, So I said F it. After I decided that, they were like, oh can you do your original concept plan. I said. Nope. That ship has sailed. 

You have to do the neighborhood meetings and keep the folks that are not in that hood out. It’s Got to be a close working relationship with the council person to get it done. Sorry you had the problem. Better luck on future projects!

[Brit_in_Gtown]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

You have to do the neighborhood meetings and keep the folks that are not in that hood out. It’s Got to be a close working relationship with the council person to get it done. Sorry you had the problem. Better luck on future projects!

You hit the nail on the head - the council person went AWOL. 

[smeagolsfree]

That sucks!

[Urbanman]

With all the towers currently under construction and proposed. Which street do you guys think will be the most impressive in the next 5 years between KVB, Demonbreun, Broadway and Church?

[MLBrumby]

Church Street because so much is going there and it's much narrower than Broad and KVB. 

12 minutes ago, Urbanman said:

With all the towers currently under construction and proposed. Which street do you guys think will be the most impressive in the next 5 years between KVB, Demonbreun, Broadway and Church?

 

[downtownresident]

20 minutes ago, Urbanman said:

With all the towers currently under construction and proposed. Which street do you guys think will be the most impressive in the next 5 years between KVB, Demonbreun, Broadway and Church?

Church Street. Once KVB fills in completely that would be my answer. 

[smeagolsfree]

35 minutes ago, Urbanman said:

With all the towers currently under construction and proposed. Which street do you guys think will be the most impressive in the next 5 years between KVB, Demonbreun, Broadway and Church?

Height & density wise, Church, but When It’s all said and done the Broadway/West End corridor I think will be the most impressive as far as the overall length.

[downtownresident]

2 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Height & density wise, Church, but When It’s all said and done the Broadway/West End corridor I think will be the most impressive as far as the overall length.

It’s too bad Church Street west of the interstate is such a mess. The Elliston Place -> Church Street corridor from West End to the river could really be something special. 

[Urbanman]

41 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Height & density wise, Church, but When It’s all said and done the Broadway/West End corridor I think will be the most impressive as far as the overall length.

I agree

38 minutes ago, downtownresident said:

It’s too bad Church Street west of the interstate is such a mess. The Elliston Place -> Church Street corridor from West End to the river could really be something special. 

Maybe once from the river to I-40 is built out, more highrise development will take off from the interstate to West End. I agree it could be special!

[Urbanman]

At the rate Nashville is going, I think it’s quite possible, in the next 10-15 years, that it will have the best urban core in the south. Maybe not the tallest but the most expansive. I’m I too far fetched in this thinking? Thoughts?

[UrbanWes03]

I agree with everyone. Church is about to be it's on city within the city though with Nashville Yards, the Tony towers, and what is already there with 505 etc. 

1 hour ago, Urbanman said:

At the rate Nashville is going, I think it’s quite possible, in the next 10-15 years, that it will have the best urban core in the south. Maybe not the tallest but the most expansive. I’m I too far fetched in this thinking? Thoughts?

I definitely think in terms of the liveliness, engagement, and shear amount of things to do all around the core, it will be the best.

Atlanta, IMO, will stay the most expansive considering it is continuing to grow as well, and areas like West Midtown, Old Fourth Ward, and the other major urban pockets will eventually all bleed together with Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead once things are built out more, especially around the beltline.

[East Side Urbanite]

2 hours ago, Urbanman said:

At the rate Nashville is going, I think it’s quite possible, in the next 10-15 years, that it will have the best urban core in the south. Maybe not the tallest but the most expansive. I’m I too far fetched in this thinking? Thoughts?

"Best urban core" is highly subjective and, as such, there is not "right or wrong."

Many folks would argue Nashville will never have an urban core that is as "quirky, building dense, distinctive and pedestrian vibrant" as that of New Orleans. Charlotte will, almost assuredly, continue to be "better" than Nashville in terms of very tall (300 feet or taller) contemporary towers with eye-catching caps and night lighting. Richmond's urban core is "better" if you like historic architecture. Miami is on an ocean and offers breathtaking visual with the water and soaring towers.

Now, IF you are using numbers (for example, the number of buildings 100 feet tall or taller), that's a way to "measure."

 

 

[Baronakim]

Are we running out of prime sites in the core?  Absolutely not!  This past six months or so, folks on the forum have been gushing about "clusters".... and it is true; there have been many great surprises all close together recently.  Y'all know what they are; I don't have to list them.  However we have really not take a recent inventory of vacant sites ripe for the pickin' of new towers without the frumps at City Lights throwing in their 3 cents.  These sites have been vey quiet and I would like some possibilities to be examined for consideration.  Pretty much we have seen next to nothing proposed on any of them.     The closest we have seen of  "historic" concerns  is over on Rutledge Hill and the rebuild of Second Avenue, because we still have a plethora of vacant lots and junk buildings waiting for new buildings of the scale that has left us all salivating.   Let's look at them in light of all of which we have seen lately near them.  First , there are TWO vacant BLOCKs of surface parking on Second Avenue that have been there for decades.  First, the one at Church and Second is an obvious site with the excellent proposed rebuild of the demolished buildings destroyed by the bombing and the proposals over on 3rd Avenue like Bankers Alley and the additions to the historic buildings up on 3rd near the Square.  The block could benefit from a 5 story faux Victorian rebuild like that proposed for the bombed out shells.   The site could match  the old Victorians with street activations on three streets and have a very large underground parking much needed  on both 1st and 2nd.  The upper floor could certainly house a Boutique Hotel.   The other vacant block has had little to no news as we have all been bedazzled by Asurion's new building over in the Gulch.  Once that opens, the vacant block AND the present four story office become a premier prime site for 40 story+ construction without the hoopla of the Rutledge 4  having any say whatsoever.  Across Korean war BLVD, we have two sites of which there are proposals which come and go like the Fairmont proposal and the tiny triangle at 1st.  I really don't see why that tiny bit of 1st Avenue S. really needs to remain in existence any longer as both sites could benefit from a green park space between them. It doesn't align with anything after all.  IMO it would be a wide alley for all practical purposes.  Both sites would benefit from internal site parkland like proposed at the Cumulus site.  Now looking further down KW BLVD, there is the huge 3/4 of a block by the Margaritaville Hotel.  I am quite surprised that I heard nothing happening there, especially with the massive happenings at the roundabout.  As to the Roundabout, there are SEVERAL prime sites nearby, though not fully vacant.  The Rescue mission seems to be the most tantalizing.  Huge and completely underutilized, a sellout here could be potentially as developable as the Reed or Beaman sites.   Likewise the Sherman Williams properties on 6th and Drexel cry out for development as they would rub shoulder with the high cotton projects at the Styx Roundabout.  Likewise the whole triangular block defined by 6th, Peabody and Lafayette.  Too much of our attention has been focused on the Division corridor.  Smaller, but still prime lots to consider with the Cannery  area looking to be an active area again is the parking lot in front of Cummins Station  and the second half of the JW Marriot lot.  A second tower matching the first would be sweet.    Then there is the big surface parking lot on the corner of 8th and Demonbreun ... PRIME+ land!   Finally, I point out the large parking lot at Polk and Church which has been vacant for DECADEs since the demolition of the Tulane Hotel back more than 5 decades ago.   If these parcels were developed with appropriate height proposals, the core would no longer have "clusters" but this would unify the existing  city core.  Of course I ignore the massive state parking lots over below Capitol Hill ... they will NEVER be developed by our backwards state government. until the cows come home IMO.  I exclude the parking lot block behind First Baptist as it will certainly be for the expansion of the Convention Center.  There are more smaller surface lots surely, but it is time IMO to fill in the blanks and rid the core of the surface parking  and the underutilized sites right by all the elegant new construction happenings.  What do y'all think?

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Baronakim
spelling/ capitalization corrections

[nashwatcher]

With all of the out of town developers with deep pockets wanting to invest in this up and coming city, all of those lots will easily be gobbled up in the coming decade. The "clusters" that we're seeing with unite together and we'll have a vibrant, dense downtown...what we don't want is to get a bunch of 5 story stick frame  apartment buildings instead of the architecturally beautiful buildings we're currently starting to see become the new norm...I have great hope in 10 years we'll have an incredibly alive, urban downtown that will be the envy of many other cities...

Luckily we're one of the "IT" cities in the country right now and we're blessed to have investors willing to come to us with big, transformative proposals

[markhollin]

Capitol Hotel expansion (5 stories, 29 rooms) update: up to 4th floor.

Looking NE from Polk Ave., 1/4 block south of Union St:

[markhollin]

The Nell (5 thru 8 stories, 78 condos, internal garage) update: up to 2nd floor across most of the site now.

Looking SW from 7th Ave. South just north of Middleton St:

[markhollin]

The 5.93 acres at 900-1000 2nd Ave. North has been purchased from the state by Proffitt Dixon Partners for $32.93 million. They will most likely build a two phase, three structure mixed-use project.  No word yet on how many floors, square footage, etc.  The state had bought the land in 1994 for $5 million. The government structures that were built there were heavily damaged by the March 2020 tornado. 

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/n-c-development-company-pays-32-52m-for-ballpark-area-site/article_65a4bbc8-2dbf-11ec-8a5f-1bc9b8c1ef7e.html

And at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2021/10/15/state-of-tennessee-land-sold-32m.html