Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[Guest]

The wood complaints are valid. That wood that built old-London/Zurich/Philly - that's not the same wood that drives modern projects. There's (a dime a dozen) complaints from all over about the quality these wood structures provide for. Just look at Velocity or Pine St Flats or the new Melrose. All wood structures with paper thin walls and stick frame.

Some are for sure. There are also examples of it being done well and nicely. I think that project across from the bars on Demonbreun is really excellent. I don't hate Velocity at all. Pine Street is kind of disappointing but does have a tall concrete base. Now, Eleven North... Oh dear. Melrose... Oh boy. Yup. Bad.

[MLBrumby]

Just let it go... people have aired their opinions. They won't always like the stuff you like, but you don't need to be so defensive.

[dmillsphoto]

Some are for sure. There are also examples of it being done well and nicely. I think that project across from the bars on Demonbreun is really excellent. I don't hate Velocity at all. Pine Street is kind of disappointing but does have a tall concrete base. Now, Eleven North... Oh dear. Melrose... Oh boy. Yup. Bad.

 

Concrete base is a structural/codes requirement to have retail. 

 

The point is - what's being built, stick frame - is generally cloaked in, well, cheap crap. They're synonymous with each other, which is why that is frequently associated.

[Guest]

Just let it go... people have aired their opinions. They won't always like the stuff you like, but you don't need to be so defensive.

Who's defensive again? I didn't start slinging mud at ongoing projects. I don't like folks hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet and making broad generalizations about the lack of talent of the industry. That is what I found out of line more then an opinion on an ugly building. I agree... The CHS building is disappointing.

I really do want to know what you believe is the Class B building corporate HQ going up in the core?

I'm not picking a fight on this. I really want to hear what you find as a substandard building currently under construction. (Chain hotels excluded.)

[Guest]

Concrete base is a structural/codes requirement to have retail.

The point is - what's being built, stick frame - is generally cloaked in, well, cheap crap. They're synonymous with each other, which is why that is frequently associated.

You can build retail in a wood base. To go six stories it has to be a concrete base or to do type 5 at five stories it has to be concrete. The concrete is not a code requirement except to achieve extra height. For example, the 12 South Flats building where Josephine's is, is all wood with an underground concrete parking deck.

I don't think they are synonymous, just in perception. That is what I was originally reacting to. I think that is unfair. Wood can be an excellent construction material even in its modern lumber yard form. The baseline structural requirements are very stringent now making the actual structure pretty stout.

The exterior materials being used are, for the most part, total crap. They will not age well. That's the real throw away nature of these buildings to me. Renovations do and can happen over time. These can be rehabilitated as well.

[MLBrumby]

Dude!  Do we need to get the mods here?  There's nothing more disappointing for someone than clicking on a new thread and being dumped into the midst of bickering.  Now stop it! 

[dmillsphoto]

I see an attempt at self moderation. Let's let that be the case.

[SoundScan]

Nashville is a conservative market, part of the reason we didn't receive the hard collapse during the housing bubble implosion. That conservatism extends to the companies that exist here (themselves an extension of their employees and leadership) and bears out in what they believe to be financially responsible decisions about corporate real estate investments. It makes sense that Nashville would attract such companies--a relatively low cost of living, no state income taxes, a corporate friendly state- and local government generously handing out TIF and retention packages. With that in mind it I guess it shouldn't really surprise most of us that we end up with rather conservative looking, seemingly designed-by-committee buildings. A conservative company is not going to hire a Calatrava or a Gehry, they're going to hire a local arch firm that typically designs building for, well, other local conservative companies. It's right in their wheelhouse.

 

Taking Nashville to the next level--architecturally speaking--will happen in two ways (IMO): a massive corporate location by a company that likes to make a splash, or a slowly rising tide of competition between companies and developers that are competing for a tightening pool of talent, clients, tenants, etc. (Please excuse the water-related metaphors)

 

As much as it pains me to say it, I'm kind of glad that CHS went the conservative route. Healthcare costs in this country are high enough already, so I can't imagine building a billion-dollar, towering architectural masterpiece downtown would help in that department.

[NashRugger]

And speaking of design, the apartment project taking place of the Gossett Building isn't a unique situation to Nashville. It is happening in nearly every single city right now because it's the trend and until folks demand most aesthetics and unique buildings, this will continue. Dallas, Atlanta, Phoenix, Charlotte, Saint Louis, and the list could go forever it seems. Millennials a want apartments and this are quick concept, execution, and delivery designs because money talks. All these cities, exception probably Saint Louis, for now, also have some high rise projects but they're far less common than these low-rise stick frame structures. The skyline picture of Buckhead, which isn't suburban at all anymore by any means, showcased several different high rise booms. 1980s office, and then the 90s-current high-rise office relocations as well as condo boom.

[Neigeville2]

I would say the shock about the Gosset building is more the site. .I'm amazed someone would buy such a prime location and spend such a sum just to build something so ordinary. I don't expect every project to be special but this just doesn't make sense.

[smeagolsfree]

I realize emotions can get away with every person here. It has happened to the best of us. If you really want to argue your point, please do it via PM’s or email.Everyone here has a lot to bring to the table.

Remember we can agree to disagree about some points, but please, the written word can be very harsh at times and taken the wrong way.

Let cool heads prevail here. I value everyone’s opinion and each of you has a wealth of knowledge.
I do not want anyone to get mad, upset, suicidal, and homicidal over the issues we discuss here. ( at least the first two, not the last two)JK. We can all act like adults.

 

The last thing I want to see is someone leave over a small disagreement that escalates into an all out war of words.

Thanks

[rookzie]

I realize emotions can get away with every person here. It has happened to the best of us. If you really want to argue your point, please do it via PM’s or email.Everyone here has a lot to bring to the table.

Remember we can agree to disagree about some points, but please, the written word can be very harsh at times and taken the wrong way.

Let cool heads prevail here. I value everyone’s opinion and each of you has a wealth of knowledge.

I do not want anyone to get mad, upset, suicidal, and homicidal over the issues we discuss here. ( at least the first two, not the last two)JK. We can all act like adults.

 

The last thing I want to see is someone leave over a small disagreement that escalates into an all out war of words.

Thanks

 

We can take it to Maury or to Jerry.  At least then we can get paid for it there.

-==-

[samsonh]

Nashville is a conservative market, part of the reason we didn't receive the hard collapse during the housing bubble implosion. That conservatism extends to the companies that exist here (themselves an extension of their employees and leadership) and bears out in what they believe to be financially responsible decisions about corporate real estate investments. It makes sense that Nashville would attract such companies--a relatively low cost of living, no state income taxes, a corporate friendly state- and local government generously handing out TIF and retention packages. With that in mind it I guess it shouldn't really surprise most of us that we end up with rather conservative looking, seemingly designed-by-committee buildings. A conservative company is not going to hire a Calatrava or a Gehry, they're going to hire a local arch firm that typically designs building for, well, other local conservative companies. It's right in their wheelhouse.

 

Taking Nashville to the next level--architecturally speaking--will happen in two ways (IMO): a massive corporate location by a company that likes to make a splash, or a slowly rising tide of competition between companies and developers that are competing for a tightening pool of talent, clients, tenants, etc. (Please excuse the water-related metaphors)

 

As much as it pains me to say it, I'm kind of glad that CHS went the conservative route. Healthcare costs in this country are high enough already, so I can't imagine building a billion-dollar, towering architectural masterpiece downtown would help in that department.

 

Agreed about Nashville having more conservative companies. We do not have huge financial headquarters or large oil companies. We have healthcare! Which in many ways is better for the overall Nashville economy, but not so great or building trophy towers.

[Paramount747]

I have argued for a long time, and many here called me negative, that Nashville will never be a skyscraper city. We do not have the population base, and we do not have the amount of national or international corporate headquarters here.

 

Nashville is an entertainment city, and most companies in that industry are based in LA, NYC, London, Atlanta, Chicago and other large cities. Nashville will get their regional offices, but not their corporate headquarters and 50 story buildings. NYC is still the financial capital of the world, so we will not get those corporate centers either.

 

The future of Nashville high rises are condos, apartments, and hotels. They will all be in the 200-400 foot range unless Tony does  505. When the cycle shifts again back to the suburbs, all of this development will stop.

 

The Bridgestone is an indication that 30 stories and 460 feet is what a large firm will build. (The highest occupied floor of that building will be around 370-380 feet. There is a lot of "spire" for lack of a better term on the roof.) If Bridgestone, the largest tire company in the world, will only build 460 feet in Nashville, who is going to build taller? Banks? Oil? I don't know. Please tell me.

 

Just because Austin has a 683 foot condo tower, it does not mean they are going to build more, but they have 60,000 UT students. We barely have 60,000 college students in all of Middle Tennessee! Texas has 30+ million people, we have 6.5. We are not Austin or Charlotte and probably won't be, but they sure want to be us. We have a brand name, and they do not.

 

That is basically it. We have numerous buildings being built in the 200-460 foot range, and I think that will be it. I really do not see us getting anything taler than the ATT Tower. That is our signature tower, and for a midsize city that is pretty nice. 505 will only be 55 feet taller than the 5/3 bank tower. That should tell you something. Tony cannot pull off any higher. The money and the people just are not there.

 

Unless Nashville all of a sudden has 4 million people, the skyscrapers are not going to happen. Why Columbus, Tulsa, Ok. City, Mobile have taller buildings is beyond me. Mobile has a population of 198,000 and they have a 750 foot tower. Who figured that would ever happen?  And nothing has been built since. The Towers in Tulsa were built decades ago due to oil money, and if it was not for Devon Energy, OK. City would just have a small cluster of 350-400 foot towers.

 

I guess the point being is I am over it. All of it. I am more excited about the Ballpark, The Amphitheater, and grand civic projects that people ACTUALLY notice.  In my countless hours of walking downtown I have never heard a tourist mention an office or condo tower as something about Nashville they choose to remember. They are more concerned about what Country star they happened to meet.

 

I met one guy who looked up at the Sobro crane because he poured concrete in New Jersey for some towers going up in Jersey City. I saw one woman take a snapshot of the ATT Tower. That's it.

 

We are the only nerds who actually follow the built environment, and Nashville is only doing what many midsize cities are doing now. The reason we are growing is the simple fact coming out of the 2008 recession, people fled the large cities for something a bit less expensive, so they located here…until we get too expensive, and then they move to Chattanooga.

 

Yes, I have been hard on the architects for designing less than meaningful projects which that seem to indicate a lack of imagination, and then again they surprise me with the Sounds Ball Park, The Amphitheater, The MCC, Music City Central, and other civic projects that are wonderful. I am also looking forward to the Pedestrian Bridge.

 

So in regards to office towers, condo buildings, hotels, apartment towers, 3-7 story apartment buildings, and the like, I am done. They are utilitarian in purpose. Don't expect the Shard in London to happen here. The grand civic projects are what really bring people together, and that is most important.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Paramount747

[NashRugger]

We've done had the Mobile and their RSA Tower debate before.

[Bezoar]

Plans for Elliot School / parking lot. 

 

The plans call for two separate 3-story buildings totaling 75 residential units. The historic Elliot school building that fronts Jefferson will remain and likely be converted to residential as well. Street-level retail/commercial space and underground parking. 

 

Manuel Zeitlin are the architects.  

Edited May 15, 2015 by Bezoar

[chris holman]

Gulch crossing building looks good at night for a building that size, their is a light that traces Around the entire building,

I wish and hope all the new buildings have a light element to enhance the skyline at night

[titanhog]

I'm actually excited about the old CC development.   To me, it's the one thing DT is really missing.

[rookzie]

I guess the point being is I am over it. All of it. I am more excited about the Ballpark, The Amphitheater, and grand civic projects that people ACTUALLY notice.  In my countless hours of walking downtown I have never heard a tourist mention an office or condo tower as something about Nashville they choose to remember. They are more concerned about what Country star they happened to meet.

 

I met one guy who looked up at the Sobro crane because he poured concrete in New Jersey for some towers going up in Jersey City. I saw one woman take a snapshot of the ATT Tower. That's it.

 

Seems that the AT&T tower is getting shorter and shorter in focal noticeability, "don't it? "  Pretty soon all we'll be able to see from afar will be the Bat-ears. (oops... I might've pushed a button [or 2])

-==-

Edited May 15, 2015 by rookzie

[markhollin]

Plans for Elliot School / parking lot. 

 

The plans call for two separate 3-story buildings totaling 75 residential units. The historic Elliot school building that fronts Jefferson will remain and likely be converted to residential as well. Street-level retail/commercial space and underground parking. 

 

Manuel Zeitlin are the architects.  

Link doesn't work.  Could you re-post?  Thanks.  : )

[Bezoar]

Link doesn't work.  Could you re-post?  Thanks.  : )

Sorry, here we go:  https://d3ghdtgvse7ejc.cloudfront.net/21/47/3e/21473ededaa72f5f7989aaf039c81d92/elliotschool_plans.pdf?Expires=1431718429&Signature=Ti7QRsaHwHGLKuXRCe~ZRFmwhBjOnTFBdJ2Xcxi7ohE24KLCkVEEkUC5t5fp-mOwBcy2cSL1NrXBLR9xXY6AewqZXOuwe1yi20aODGdDnsFXa4L7I2daifPoJXvVPkRfOrbEVst4nHHcf4t0aM3FbEZBI-yU2GgfBDiOAoX8eKE_&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIXBZNN3ZZBIBSIDQ

[smeagolsfree]

We can take it to Maury or to Jerry.  At least then we can get paid for it there.

-==-

OMG, for a minute, I just saw Maury as in County. I don't think any of us want to take anything there. JK guys.

[Paramount747]

I miss the Aragon lit on top of the Regions Bank Tower.

[MetropolitanNashville]

I miss the Aragon lit on top of the Regions Bank Tower.

I'm intrigued. Tell me more.

[markhollin]

Sorry, here we go:  https://d3ghdtgvse7ejc.cloudfront.net/21/47/3e/21473ededaa72f5f7989aaf039c81d92/elliotschool_plans.pdf?Expires=1431718429&Signature=Ti7QRsaHwHGLKuXRCe~ZRFmwhBjOnTFBdJ2Xcxi7ohE24KLCkVEEkUC5t5fp-mOwBcy2cSL1NrXBLR9xXY6AewqZXOuwe1yi20aODGdDnsFXa4L7I2daifPoJXvVPkRfOrbEVst4nHHcf4t0aM3FbEZBI-yU2GgfBDiOAoX8eKE_&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIXBZNN3ZZBIBSIDQ

Hmmmmm…that doesn't seem to work either.  : (