Carolina Panthers Facilities

[kermit]

FWIW: yesterday’s sale of the Denver Broncos (for $4.65 billion) effectively doubled the value of the Panthers but, despite the sale adding $2+ billion (about 12%) to Tepper's net worth overnight, he was demoted to the second wealthiest NFL owner (after Rob Walton, a WalMart heir). 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/broncos-sale-rob-walton-record-price-11654665206

His $2 billion net worth increase kinda puts any losses incurred in Rock Hill into perspective.

Edited June 8, 2022 by kermit

[rucker]

4 hours ago, kermit said:

FWIW: yesterday’s sale of the Denver Broncos (for $4.65 billion) effectively doubled the value of the Panthers but, despite adding $2+ billion (about 12%) to his net worth overnight demoted Tepper to just the second wealthiest NFL owner (after Walton, a WalMart heir). 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/broncos-sale-rob-walton-record-price-11654665206

His $2 billion windfall kinda puts any losses incurred in Rock Hill into perspective.

also puts into perspective how absurd his past and soon to be future shaking down of local and state municipalites  for all his wants and needs are.

[Reverie39]

11 hours ago, kermit said:

FWIW: yesterday’s sale of the Denver Broncos (for $4.65 billion) effectively doubled the value of the Panthers but, despite the sale adding $2+ billion (about 12%) to Tepper's net worth overnight, he was demoted to the second wealthiest NFL owner (after Rob Walton, a WalMart heir). 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/broncos-sale-rob-walton-record-price-11654665206

His $2 billion net worth increase kinda puts any losses incurred in Rock Hill into perspective.

But he can't really access that $2 billion unless he sells stake in the team right?

[JRCLT]

But he can't really access that $2 billion unless he sells stake in the team right?

Pretty sure a lot of his wealth isn’t liquid (cash) assets. I guess his stocks are semi-liquid (little harder to spend but easily transferable to cash). Not sure what the break down of his wealth is and depending on that is how you can dictate the kind of billionaire that person is. Being a billionaire doesn’t always mean that there billions at your disposal. It’s wealth not just money. So yes he can’t really access stores value in assets unless he literally sells it for cash. Though being a billionaire helps get access to a vast pool of funding through loans primarily from financial bodies. (You have wealth to back it up if you can’t actually pay off the loan).

[Norm2]

14 minutes ago, JeanClt said:

Pretty sure a lot of his wealth isn’t liquid (cash) assets. I guess his stocks are semi-liquid (little harder to spend but easily transferable to cash). Not sure what the break down of his wealth is and depending on that is how you can dictate the kind of billionaire that person is. Being a billionaire doesn’t always mean that there billions at your disposal. It’s wealth not just money. So yes he can’t really access stores value in assets unless he literally sells it for cash. Though being a billionaire helps get access to a vast pool of funding through loans primarily from financial bodies. (You have wealth to back it up if you can’t actually pay off the loan).

Most Billionaire's assets definitely aren't liquid.

[urbanlover568]

Lawsuit's beginning. Hope the taxpayers win against Tepper. 

 

https://www.wcnc.com/article/sports/nfl/panthers/carolina-panthers-rock-hill-york-county-south-carolina-david-tepper-lawsuit-training-facility/275-ddfc7ac6-68e5-4cf2-94d8-2685e2be4967

[J-Rob]

Even if the city and/or county were at fault?

Edited June 10, 2022 by J-Rob

[urbanlover568]

Just now, J-Rob said:

Even if the city and county were at fault?

How exactly were they at fault? Where exactly in the contract were they? 

[J-Rob]

I feel like that has been fairly clearly documented.

https://www.wcnc.com/article/money/panthers-pause-rock-hill-fails-funding-training-facility-bonds-money/275-d46771bf-e6a5-4ff8-a953-f00007f4bb83

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/19/panthers-officially-pull-plug-on-rock-hill-headquarters/

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/03/08/rock-hill-confirms-no-bonds-issued-panthers-hq.html

[urbanlover568]

Just now, J-Rob said:

I feel like that has been fairly clearly documented.

https://www.wcnc.com/article/money/panthers-pause-rock-hill-fails-funding-training-facility-bonds-money/275-d46771bf-e6a5-4ff8-a953-f00007f4bb83

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/19/panthers-officially-pull-plug-on-rock-hill-headquarters/

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/03/08/rock-hill-confirms-no-bonds-issued-panthers-hq.html

That's not explicitly answering my question. Posting links isn't answering a question. 

[kermit]

52 minutes ago, urbanlover568 said:

That's not explicitly answering my question. Posting links isn't answering a question. 

Contributors here are not your research assistant (nor do we exist to spoon feed you WCNC stories.) You asked a question and J-Rob provided the answer. Its on you if you are too lazy to click the link (or scroll back in the thread).

Edited June 10, 2022 by kermit

[urbanlover568]

16 minutes ago, kermit said:

Contributors here are not your research assistant (or reader). You asked a question and J-Rob provided the answer. Its on you if you are too lazy to click the link (or scroll back in the thread).

So people can say "Even if the city and/or county were at fault?" without giving a explanation of citation? What a joke. 

[kermit]

9 minutes ago, urbanlover568 said:

So people can say "Even if the city and/or county were at fault?" without giving a explanation of citation? What a joke. 

Feel free to share your disagreement with the statement. (Was Rock Hill not at fault?)

Edited June 10, 2022 by kermit

[urbanlover568]

1 hour ago, urbanlover568 said:

Lawsuit's beginning. Hope the taxpayers win against Tepper. 

 

https://www.wcnc.com/article/sports/nfl/panthers/carolina-panthers-rock-hill-york-county-south-carolina-david-tepper-lawsuit-training-facility/275-ddfc7ac6-68e5-4cf2-94d8-2685e2be4967

Quote

"The Tepper defendants spent the Penny Tax Funds for purposes other than the completion of the Mt. Gallant Project," the lawsuit reads. "Upon information and belief, none of the Penny Tax Funds went to its intended purpose. To date, no progress has been made toward the completion of the Mt. Gallant expanded scope."

The lawsuit seeks the full $21 million from Tepper's companies, plus any increased construction costs related to the Mt. Gallant expansion. The suit also seeks lost tax revenue that would've been generated by the training facility. 

 

[J-Rob]

Whether or not  the road improvements were made is likely a matter of timing.  The improvements would have been made had the project been completed, and since they are seeking lost tax revenue or other damages, it seems to me the suit isn't just about the road. 

Should Tepper pay lost tax revenue to York County because Rock Hill didn't uphold their obligations? Going back to my original question that upset you, it was a fair question.

Should Tepper have separated the money for the road? I have no idea if there was legal responsibility to do that, but for what it is worth, even York County blames Rock Hill, and Rock Hill is also a defendant in the case.  I included journalistic links earlier because that is more authoritative than my opinion, but I will highlight this statement for you this time since the links offended some people.

"It has accused the city of Rock Hill of breach of contract, claiming the city's failure to issue infrastructure bonds for the Panthers project led to its demise."

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/06/10/york-county-lawsuit-david-tepper-rock-hill-hq.html

I don't feel bad for Tepper.  He has plenty of money. At the same time, if he agreed to complete the project under the condition that hundreds of millions of dollars be offset, then he should have received that money. The people I feel worst for in this whole situation are the contractors and construction workers. I hope they are somehow paid in full.

There seems to be some unnecessary anger this afternoon, so hopefully everyone has a relaxing weekend.

[49er]

One day we'll known Tepper's ulterior motives here. Whether it's the beginning of a way to leverage a new stadium and threaten a move or some other issue we aren't even aware of. He and the city/county/state had every incentive to make this thing work. Hell, maybe it's some big tax write off scheme.  

[urbanlover568]

Just now, J-Rob said:

Whether or not  the road improvements were made is likely a matter of timing.  The improvements would have been made had the project been completed, and since they are seeking lost tax revenue or other damages, it seems to me the suit isn't just about the road. 

Should Tepper pay lost tax revenue to York County because Rock Hill didn't uphold their obligations? Going back to my original question that upset you, it was a fair question.

Should Tepper have separated the money for the road? I have no idea if there was legal responsibility to do that, but for what it is worth, even York County blames Rock Hill, and Rock Hill is also a defendant in the case.  I included journalistic links earlier because that is more authoritative than my opinion, but I will highlight this statement for you this time since the links offended some people.

"It has accused the city of Rock Hill of breach of contract, claiming the city's failure to issue infrastructure bonds for the Panthers project led to its demise."

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/06/10/york-county-lawsuit-david-tepper-rock-hill-hq.html

I don't feel bad for Tepper.  He has plenty of money. At the same time, if he agreed to complete the project under the condition that hundreds of millions of dollars be offset, then he should have received that money. The people I feel worst for in this whole situation are the contractors and construction workers. I hope they are somehow paid in full.

There seems to be some unnecessary anger this afternoon, so hopefully everyone has a relaxing weekend.

No anger here,  just disappointed for the SC taxpayers that the funds were possibly not used for their intended purpose which is fraud. A judge will have the determine if that's true or not. That money could have gone to the homeless and veterans or other infrastructure improvements. 

[DMann]

"I don't feel bad for Tepper.  He has plenty of money. At the same time, if he agreed to complete the project under the condition that hundreds of millions of dollars be offset, then he should have received that money. The people I feel worst for in this whole situation are the contractors and construction workers. I hope they are somehow paid in full."

1. I believe they were paid for their time.

2. if anyone is in construction today and is not employed they probably shouldn't be. 

[JRCLT]

Key thing here is York County is also suing the city of Rock Hill lol. York County wants it’s money back.

[slipperypete]

37 minutes ago, 49er said:

He and the city/county/state had every incentive to make this thing work.

Evidently this was true for Tepper, the county and the state, but not for the city. Rock Hill couldn't or wouldn't issue the bonds they promised. Based on the public information I've seen so far that is the fault of Rock Hill. It will be interesting to see what other disclosures are made as this drama continues to unfold, but it's telling that Rock Hill is a defendant in this York Co suit.  

[JHart]

1 hour ago, DMann said:

"I don't feel bad for Tepper.  He has plenty of money. At the same time, if he agreed to complete the project under the condition that hundreds of millions of dollars be offset, then he should have received that money. The people I feel worst for in this whole situation are the contractors and construction workers. I hope they are somehow paid in full."

1. I believe they were paid for their time.

2. if anyone is in construction today and is not employed they probably shouldn't be. 

Paid for their time worked doesn't mean they aren't getting screwed. Contractors turn down plenty of other work when they take jobs this size and many probably hired additional people. 

[Desert Power]

5 hours ago, JeanClt said:

Key thing here is York County is also suing the city of Rock Hill lol. York County wants it’s money back.

So either way the taxpayers of Rock Hill are going to lose this one?

[JRCLT]

So either way the taxpayers of Rock Hill are going to lose this one?

Lose what?

[Desert Power]

8 hours ago, JeanClt said:

Lose what?

Lawyer fees at least

[videtur quam contuor]

The benefit claimed for professional sports facilities is illusory. If one researches "professional sports facilities pay for themselves" or reads one of many posts there from objective authors it may be that Rock Hill realized that the benefit to their taxpayers, not to mention their citizens, from this project within the now rising bond interest environment demonstrated to them what their haste obscured in the original rush to an agreement. I applaud their clarity of thinking. 

Edit: I may be giving them credit unduly, though the result is the same. Perhaps they are frightened rather than rational. 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by tarhoosier