The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[nashvillain_too]

13 hours ago, bnacincy said:

So what's the plan? Most people can't afford to pay the premium as you put it to live in an older, traditional urban neighborhood, so what do you suggest?

If you are going to be critical of car dependency in this country then put forth substantive, viable alternatives instead of making sweeping generalizations about folks all over the country being desperate for options.

If that is indeed the case, then what are the options?  I made a suggestion-now what do you say?

I'm not a planner, in public policy, nor a politician. But, since you asked...

Transit-oriented development over park and rides. Housing, commercial, and office at transit stops instead of parking works better. 

Upzone the entire city. Allow for commercial and office uses everywhere. Reduce burdensome regulation to make it easier and cost effective to start up small businesses where people live. Overhaul other zoning regulations like setbacks so that developers can maximize the square footage of lots. Remove pointless building regulations that make it hard/impossible to build diverse types of multifamily housing. As it stands, five-over-ones are the only way to make money with multifamily; and those suck. 

Admit that the pikes and other high injury network corridors are just city streets and redesign them as such. Remove vehicle lanes. Reduce remaining lane widths. Add bus and cycle lanes. Widen sidewalks. Raised crosswalks. 

Trying to improve transit without simultaneously overhauling land use is a non-starter as is abundantly clear with the current state of affairs. None of the above is radical or revolutionary. It would just be a return to how Nashville developed before we destroyed it for the benefit of suburban commuters. 

11 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

And lots of kids today who don’t want to drive depend on Uber and Uber Eats for their transportation related wants and needs. So they don’t want the bother of driving, but they still want the benefits of somebody driving.

Is that supposed to be a positive? Again, they're just responding to the way things are. Do you want them not to get to school or not to eat just because it's really difficult or impossible to do those things without somebody driving?

[Nathan_in_DC]

3 hours ago, rolly said:

That sure escalated quickly.

I've mentioned it before, but be careful of overhyping the rapid development of the Chinese rail network. From a recent article in The Atlantic:

Quote

Beijing boasts about its extensive network of high-speed railways, already the world’s largest—but the state-owned company that operates it has racked up more than $800 billion in debt and posts substantial losses. The Cato Institute once described China’s rail-building bonanza as a “high-speed debt trap.”

The Chinese “continue to invest beyond what they can actually absorb,” Alicia Garcia-Herrero, a senior fellow and specialist in Asian economies at the think tank Bruegel, told me. “This is why their model went wrong.”

 

[nashvillain_too]

2 hours ago, nashvillain_too said:

Upzone the entire city. Allow for commercial and office uses everywhere. Reduce burdensome regulation to make it easier and cost effective to start up small businesses where people live. Overhaul other zoning regulations like setbacks so that developers can maximize the square footage of lots. Remove pointless building regulations that make it hard/impossible to build diverse types of multifamily housing. As it stands, five-over-ones are the only way to make money with multifamily; and those suck. 

I forgot to mention that condo or apartment towers are contemporary options for multifamily, but towers and 5-over-1s shouldn't be the only options for multifamily. There need to be more diversity and options for developers and families throughout the city

[AsianintheNations]

On 9/4/2023 at 7:18 AM, markhollin said:

New center lane dividers being set on 31st Ave. North between West End Ave. and Long Blvd.

I just drove by the dividers on 31st Ave for the first time today and was happy to see how many crosswalks are being installed (judging by the cuts in the median). Is there a document showing what the final product is supposed to look like? I think I saw at least 3 potential crosswalks between Long/Burch and West End, where before there were none. The road markings for car lanes were kind of strange though - very jagged in places and people were super confused with the loss of the left-turn lane from 31st onto West End (without any markings on the remaining lanes). Saw a near-accident as a result of this while waiting for the light. I get the purpose of the new median, but not sure why it needs to extend all the way to the intersection.

Edited September 13, 2023 by AsianintheNations

[smeagolsfree]

Now they just have to slow the traffic down from 50 to the actual speed limit.

[Sean blackdog]

Yesterday evening. 

[Mr_Bond]

I really hope they put some wonderful lighting on 11th Ave.  I don't recall seeing that in the renderings.

[Archibum]

Should be recording data to see how well this functions as 4 traffic lanes. From those pictures, it looks like that third land isn't as needed as the engineers think it is

[Luvemtall]

Would be interesting study, maybe it would show that they can actually survive without the need for every square inch to be centered on automobiles. Convert the third into real bike lanes, with a protective barrier. 

[PaulChinetti]

Is there a good reason that this intersection isn’t a large roundabout? There is actually tons of space for the roundabout and then space could actually be given back for housing or a park.

Wedgewood, Magnolia, 16th, and 17th. 

[BnaBreaker]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

Is there a good reason that this intersection isn’t a large roundabout? There is actually tons of space for the roundabout and then space could actually be given back for housing or a park.

Wedgewood, Magnolia, 16th, and 17th. 

Good call, that is a perfect location for a roundabout.  Actually the entire street grid is a bit of a cluster there thanks to whoever thought it was a good idea to make Magnolia into a pseudo expressway, and a roundabout would probably help to de-clutter things.  

[CenterHill]

14 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

Is there a good reason that this intersection isn’t a large roundabout? There is actually tons of space for the roundabout and then space could actually be given back for housing or a park.

Wedgewood, Magnolia, 16th, and 17th. 

Totally.   I raised the same question on here a couple years ago.  The double stoplights take a while to get through.  When you’re sitting there waiting and look around it’s just so obviously screaming out for a roundabout.   
 

[Archibum]

After listening to the Freakonomics episode on roundabouts, I've been keeping an eye out for which intersections would be better as a roundabout. There are a lot that would be so more efficient as a roundabout and have the space to do it to boot.

[markhollin]

Another sidewalk/crossing fail that a friend of mine posted on Facebook. It is on Dickerson Pike at Hunters Lane / Nesbitt Ln - right in front of Hunters Lane High School. Because this is also a Federal highway (US 41), AND  State Hwy 31 there is probably a bunch of finger-pointing as to who is actually responsible for things like this.  Ugh. 

[Nathan_in_DC]

3 hours ago, markhollin said:

Another sidewalk/crossing fail that a friend of mine posted on Facebook. I believe it is on Dickerson Pike in the Goodlettsville area.
 

It's the perfect analogy of how Nashville treats pedestrians... "Here, sit in your cage and press this button. Maybe we'll ask the real people in cars to stop for you."

[smeagolsfree]

Wonderful that you have to get into the street to press the button. I wonder what moron thought of that.

[Sean blackdog]

5 hours ago, markhollin said:

Another sidewalk/crossing fail that a friend of mine posted on Facebook. I believe it is on Dickerson Pike in the Goodlettsville area.
 

I know where is,  cross Hunters Lane High School. 

[NissanvilleTitans]

Tdot!!! 

Can all the decision makers in tdot just be fired and replaced with people that at least graduated high school? Can that happen? Please!!!

[nashvylle]

If you are a mass transit enthusiast- buckle up (#dadjoke). Freddie has been keeping no secrets that he will be aggressively pursuing a mass transit system and have a referendum on his first term. 

 

[Bos2Nash]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:29 AM, Archibum said:

After listening to the Freakonomics episode on roundabouts, I've been keeping an eye out for which intersections would be better as a roundabout. There are a lot that would be so more efficient as a roundabout and have the space to do it to boot.

They would also be better for cyclists as well.  The grade at this intersection presents an interesting "challenge" as I cannot say I have seen many roundabouts on a slope. I would presume it is possible, but who knows.

Would love to see some dutch inspired roundabouts built in the next few years.

[Luvemtall]

Just don’t let that person responsible for “stix” have anything to do with any roundabout 

[PaulChinetti]

I hope it’s Stix 2, EVEN MORE STIX! 

[rookzie]

9 hours ago, nashvylle said:

If you are a mass transit enthusiast- buckle up (#dadjoke). Freddie has been keeping no secrets that he will be aggressively pursuing a mass transit system and have a referendum on his first term. 

 

Well, if this is any "harbinger" of what to expect for the next 4-8 year (hopefully no less than half or even a third of my supposedly remaining time before the bell tolls), then I wouldn't hold my breath.   A referendum with a properly structured agenda which also focuses on significantly more than a single issue ─ one best bundled with  similarly weighted concerns ─ perhaps would stand a better chance of being passed, than the one in May 2018, particularly if proponents can build a broader coalition of supporters than in the past.

It very well could be another "from-the-frying-pan-into-the-fire" scenario, based on what WSMV reported:

"O'Connell said his plan will cost a fraction of the one that failed in 2018 and one major difference is they will focus on buses, not lightrail."
()

I'm not trying to be conclusive, though ─ just watching how the canary flies.

[MorganRehnberg]

1 hour ago, rookzie said:

Well, if this is any "harbinger" of what to expect for the next 4-8 year (hopefully no less than half or even a third of my supposedly remaining time before the bell tolls), then I wouldn't hold my breath.   A referendum with a properly structured agenda which also focuses on significantly more than a single issue ─ one best bundled with  similarly weighted concerns ─ perhaps would stand a better chance of being passed, than the one in May 2018, particularly if proponents can build a broader coalition of supporters than in the past.

It very well could be another "from-the-frying-pan-into-the-fire" scenario, based on what WSMV reported:

"O'Connell said his plan will cost a fraction of the one that failed in 2018 and one major difference is they will focus on buses, not lightrail."
()

I'm not trying to be conclusive, though ─ just watching how the canary flies.

It’s an approach that worked pretty well for Seattle… flood the city with busses to build ridership and then convert the peak routes to rail. 

[rookzie]

5 hours ago, MorganRehnberg said:

It’s an approach that worked pretty well for Seattle… flood the city with busses to build ridership and then convert the peak routes to rail. 

It worked as well in Twin Cities MN, but both King Cnty and Twin Cities also had a huge head start in proactive staging for light-rail.  Then too, both are of population centers ranking 15 and 16 of the largest MSAs (as of 2021).  Metro Nashville with M'boro, Franklin ranked only 35.

Yet Metro Nashville (MSA) ranked slightly with or above those of Santa Clara Cnty (San Jose, Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, Palo Alto) and Norfolk-Va. Beach-Chesapeake-Portsmouth ─ the latter two MSA's of which have built start-up systems (as opposed to legacy or existing systems) of one or more forms of fixed-guideway transit with at least some dedicated RoW segments.  In all fairness, Va. Beach has been a strong hold-out against participation, and the flood of buses in that water-locked region has long been saturated. 

The point is, those other regions undertook progressions of preparation long before start-ups of scalable advance-capacity transit (non-bus) might have became prohibitive costly and unforeseeably untenable.   Both Seattle and Twin Cities regions received significant funding support from their respective state legislatures during inception of the advance stages of development of light rail.  Despite Nashville MSA region in 2020 having reached a level of only about 2/3 of those for the Seattle and Twin Cities MSAs of census year 2000 ─ when both these latter regions had begun physical construction of their start-ups ─ vehicular traffic patterns have tended to have a magnifier-index effect in congestion-level density and duration over a span of 20+ years.  That effect tends to be higher for medium-large regions which have limited mobility/accessibility options to roadway vehicular travel.

It's unquestionable that the region is rife with its share of "transit deserts" ─ some major and numerous ones, which exist in all American cities.  Nashville's growth evolved more as "outward" than "upward" (vertical), so it's no wonder its has had major bottlenecks, given that it has sizable surrounding suburbs and exurbs.  And just as with any other medium-sized and large American city, the cost of urban living typically has resulting in more disparity between the haves and the have-nots, as far as affordable urban living is concerned. Since employment centers have tended to shift away from the innermost urban core, and since those who must access those employment centers in order to sustain their employment have tended to relocate away from the core, commuting patterns began to change long before the pandemic of 2020 modified the workplace and workforce paradigm for those jobs amenable to such change.

Seattle and Twin Cities didn't just flood their respective regions with buses.  They also formed consortial entities for oversight and governance of transit initiatives, a concept that current leaders seem to concur with.  They didn't just infuse buses to increase frequency and to shorten headways.  Rather, they were concurrently busy planning and gearing up in the background for advanced-capacity transit options on these already established peak routes with the buses as stop-gap.

Edited September 16, 2023 by rookzie