Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[LKN704]

28 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

You'd think United would want to connect Charlotte to their network from SFO, especially with a Lufthansa flight. Maybe when Charlotte has more flyers using SFO to connect to Asia via United. 

SFO has its own Lufthansa service. This summer United and Lufthansa will fly SFO-Germany five times daily. 

Asia travel is still severely depressed due to the pandemic. United just pulled a whole bunch of China flying they had scheduled to fly this summer due to poor expected loads. 

9 hours ago, csweet said:

When did Spirit add CLT-DFW?

LH's 346 flies routes with high levels of business traffic, hence the 18-J configuration. The 359 has less premium seating, which explains the up gauge.

The flight starts on 5 May.

I doubt the up-gauge has anything to do with business traffic, again seeing as how most of their Munich-US routes also got an up-gauge. Business travel to/from Europe is traditionally lower in the summer (especially in August) when most Europeans take their annual summer leave. The extra 8 business class seats is marginal. 

The up-gauge also coincides with the flight dropping down from a daily service to a 6x weekly service, so the route will actually less weekly seats on the route overall.

It's likely just a matter of Lufthansa moving resources around as necessary.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

3 hours ago, LKN704 said:

SFO has its own Lufthansa service. This summer United and Lufthansa will fly SFO-Germany five times daily. 

Asia travel is still severely depressed due to the pandemic. United just pulled a whole bunch of China flying they had scheduled to fly this summer due to poor expected loads. 

The flight starts on 5 May.

 

Yeah I know they do, I was just saying that United is really the only other option for a second option from SFO, and having a Star Alliance international flight should help its ability slightly. 

[TCLT]

13 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Yeah I know they do, I was just saying that United is really the only other option for a second option from SFO, and having a Star Alliance international flight should help its ability slightly. 

Not a single person flying Lufthansa to CLT is trying to get to San Francisco (or anywhere on the west coast really). If you're not going to take a nonstop flight, basically every single other United or Lufthansa flight to the US would be a more efficient one stop routing. Their CLT flight is essentially entirely O&D from Europe to the greater Charlotte area (NC and SC). Having that flight makes zero impact to whether United starting SFO-CLT.

4 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

You'd think United would want to connect Charlotte to their network from SFO, especially with a Lufthansa flight. Maybe when Charlotte has more flyers using SFO to connect to Asia via United. 

If United wanted to connect Charlotte passengers to Asia, they'd do it via ORD or EWR. 

AA is able to make CLT-SFO work because they can funnel the entire southeast's/east coast's demand to SFO through the connecting hub here. And SFO is a huge destination; a lot of people want to get there. On the flip side, UA could use their connecting hub at SFO to funnel all of the west coast's demand to Charlotte. The only problem is Charlotte isn't really a destination. Not nearly enough people want to come here so a UA flight wouldn't be serving enough demand to make sense.

[LKN704]

51 minutes ago, TCLT said:

Not a single person flying Lufthansa to CLT is trying to get to San Francisco (or anywhere on the west coast really). If you're not going to take a nonstop flight, basically every single other United or Lufthansa flight to the US would be a more efficient one stop routing. Their CLT flight is essentially entirely O&D from Europe to the greater Charlotte area (NC and SC). Having that flight makes zero impact to whether United starting SFO-CLT.

If United wanted to connect Charlotte passengers to Asia, they'd do it via ORD or EWR. 

AA is able to make CLT-SFO work because they can funnel the entire southeast's/east coast's demand to SFO through the connecting hub here. And SFO is a huge destination; a lot of people want to get there. On the flip side, UA could use their connecting hub at SFO to funnel all of the west coast's demand to Charlotte. The only problem is Charlotte isn't really a destination. Not nearly enough people want to come here so a UA flight wouldn't be serving enough demand to make sense.

Exactly. Not to mention that CLT-SFO O&D levels haven't even recovered to their pre-pandemic high of roughly 400 PDEW. AA's 5x daily A321 flights throw more than enough seats (950 in total) than the CLT-SFO O&D market actually warrants. 

United would be foolish to waste an entire day's worth of flying for a single plane just to try to catch whatever traffic AA doesn't carry on the route...United would be much happier directing that traffic over one of its hubs. 

[Miesian Corners]

Not sure what's going on in the atrium, but all of the ficus trees have been removed and the tree wells are boarded over (not to mention the moving sidewalks are--yet again--out of service (and have been for two weeks now). 

Honestly, I'm beginning to think they should just tear the whole place down and start over. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Miesian Corners

[LKN704]

1 hour ago, Miesian Corners said:

Not sure what's going on in the atrium, but all of the ficus trees have been removed and the tree wells are boarded over (not to mention the moving sidewalks are--yet again--out of service (and have been for two weeks now). 

Honestly, I'm beginning to think they should just tear the whole place down and start over. 

Removing the trees is certainly a head-scratcher for me considering how long they have been there, and how "tree-focused" CLT has been over the years...there are also trees on E and there are supposed to be trees in the renovated landside terminal. 

Maybe they were diseased and are being replaced? It seems like even if they were simply being replaced within a short period, you would have to cover up the tree wells for safety reasons, so someone not paying attention did not just step into a well. 

No excuse for the moving sidewalks, however. 

Isn't the atrium supposed to undergo a refurbishment? I know they had temporary signage up when I was there in late December. I wonder if they are simply about to completely replace the moving sidewalks and had to take the trees out as a result.  

Edited February 21, 2023 by LKN704

[CLT2014]

Maybe the ficus tree roots have gotten through their containers and are damaging the mechanicals for the moving walkway that are so close? Ficus trees have incredibly invasive and strong roots. As the trees mature, they easily break through infrastructure like a champ. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by CLT2014

[Miesian Corners]

4 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Maybe the ficus tree roots have gotten through their containers and are damaging the mechanicals for the moving walkway that are so close? Ficus trees have incredibly invasive and strong roots. As the trees mature, they easily break through infrastructure like a champ. 

 

The trees are in containers which are in wells. 

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

22 hours ago, TCLT said:

AA is able to make CLT-SFO work because they can funnel the entire southeast's/east coast's demand to SFO through the connecting hub here. And SFO is a huge destination; a lot of people want to get there. On the flip side, UA could use their connecting hub at SFO to funnel all of the west coast's demand to Charlotte. The only problem is Charlotte isn't really a destination. Not nearly enough people want to come here so a UA flight wouldn't be serving enough demand to make sense.

They fly a single daily flight to Nashville, RDU and PIT.  While I understand they have to contend with AA, they fly twice daily to TPA, despite Alaska also flying there. United can maintain a 738 to Denver, while competing with 5 AA and a Frontier flight, I don't think a single flight to CLT is completely out of the question. I was merely offering that its the only option for a second airline to SFO. CLT to Hawaii via SFO on United would seem like a reasonable connection.

[TCLT]

They fly a single daily flight to Nashville, RDU and PIT.  While I understand they have to contend with AA, they fly twice daily to TPA, despite Alaska also flying there. United can maintain a 738 to Denver, while competing with 5 AA and a Frontier flight, I don't think a single flight to CLT is completely out of the question. I was merely offering that its the only option for a second airline to SFO. CLT to Hawaii via SFO on United would seem like a reasonable connection.

Yes, you’re right that UA is the only non-AA option for a nonstop flight to SFO. But you’re comparing apples and oranges to try to gauge its likelihood. Nashville and Tampa are tourist destinations with widespread appeal. Raleigh has more west coast tech company presence. None of them have enormous competitor hubs. DEN is a United hub where they can provide unique connections. And most importantly it’s significantly closer to CLT so it can be served by a regional jet with a lot fewer seats and lower costs. The limited amount of demand from Charlotte to Hawaii can be well served by closer hubs. SFO would not offer anything new or advantageous in that regard. There just isn’t enough demand between CLT and SFO, especially with the post pandemic state of business travel, to justify a flight that will use up so much aircraft time to a competitor hub where the competitor has pricing power and you serve no unique demand. It’s not out of the question but in a world where United is focusing on growing its mid-continent hubs SFO-CLT IS not going to be a priority for them.

[Miesian Corners]

First section of ticketing is nearing completion. 

[KJHburg]

Capacity reduction at AA hubs including Charlotte which seems to have the smallest reduction.  

""CLT among airports where the cuts will hit
With the latest cuts, American's capacity between May and September will be up 6% year over year, but down about 4% from 2019.

Several of American's biggest hubs will see the largest cuts:

Chicago O'Hare International Airport - Reduction of 5,910 flights, or 11.3%
Dallas Fort Worth International Airport - Reduction of 5,054 flight, or 5.3%
Charlotte Douglas International Airport - Reduction of 3,991 flights, or 4.5%
Philadelphia International Airport - Reduction of 3,706 flights, or 10.3%
Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport - Reduction of 2,822 flights, or 11.1%

Koos noted that American — which controls 90% of total flights at Charlotte Douglas — will operate nearly 600 daily departures in June and July from CLT.

Despite the constraints on capacity, Isom said demand for flying remains strong. He told analysts last month that post-holiday bookings are off to a "strong" start.""

from Biz Journal  https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2023/02/22/american-airlines-summer-schedule-flight-cuts-clt.html

Edited February 23, 2023 by KJHburg

[gman430]

That’s a big punch to the face especially for Chicago. Ouch. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by gman430

[csweet]

12 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Capacity reduction at AA hubs including Charlotte which seems to have the smallest reduction.  

""CLT among airports where the cuts will hit
With the latest cuts, American's capacity between May and September will be up 6% year over year, but down about 4% from 2019.

Several of American's biggest hubs will see the largest cuts:

Chicago O'Hare International Airport - Reduction of 5,910 flights, or 11.3%
Dallas Fort Worth International Airport - Reduction of 5,054 flight, or 5.3%
Charlotte Douglas International Airport - Reduction of 3,991 flights, or 4.5%
Philadelphia International Airport - Reduction of 3,706 flights, or 10.3%
Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport - Reduction of 2,822 flights, or 11.1%

Koos noted that American — which controls 90% of total flights at Charlotte Douglas — will operate nearly 600 daily departures in June and July from CLT.

Despite the constraints on capacity, Isom said demand for flying remains strong. He told analysts last month that post-holiday bookings are off to a "strong" start.""

from Biz Journal  https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2023/02/22/american-airlines-summer-schedule-flight-cuts-clt.html

Wondering how many of DFW and CLT cuts are regional. PHL has been taking blows left and right recently - they can barely support trans con service.  

Will this be CLT's strongest INT'l summer yet?  

 

 

A

 

[BarrenLucidity]

These weren't flights they were actually going to fly. They were filed and in the most likely scenario would have been cancelled 

[CLT704]

11 hours ago, csweet said:

Will this be CLT's strongest INT'l summer yet?  

Long-haul? No, that would be 2014, when we had 13 long-haul flights, 11 to Europe and 2 to Brazil. :

US Airways: London-Heathrow; Manchester (discontinued after '14 summer season); Dublin; Paris; Brussels (discontinued after '14 summer season); Frankfurt (I'm pretty sure it was only once daily in 2014, I think it was last twice daily in 2013); Rome; Barcelona; Madrid; Lisbon (discontinued after '14 summer season); São Paulo (discontinued Oct 2014); Rio de Janeiro (discontinued Jan 2015).

Lufthansa: Munich 

This summer, I think we have 10: London-Heathrow x3, Dublin, Paris, Frankfurt, Munich x2 (one AA, one Lufthansa), Rome, and Madrid. I would bet Barcelona comes back next year, especially as travel continues to recover (recession/inflation aside) with a focus on leisure. I would love to see Manchester and the Brazil flights come back but it can funnel what traffic it does have through other hubs (especially Miami) and has really lost its dominance in the Deep South America traffic it used to have, it really is a domestic-focused carrier. I do think CLT will benefit when the 321XLR are on property: probably allow seasonal service to go year-round (think Madrid or Paris, 777 in the summer and 321 in the winter) and maybe open up some new or resumed destinations (e.g., Lisbon or some secondary Germany like Dusseldorf or Cologne). 

Edited February 24, 2023 by CLT704

[KJHburg]

Expect security delays this summer as checkpoint B is closing 

https://charlotte.axios.com/321801/charlotte-airport-wait-time/

[KJHburg]

More photos from CLT social media today. 

I think we are all going to be happy to see our airport get through this but the end result will be a great gateway to our city and region. 

But plan accordingly this summer if you are flying expect delays get there early and eat and walk around some. 

 

[LKN704]

It would be nice if AA would get off its high horse and stop actively petitioning city governments/airport authorities from blocking Clear from setting up shop at terminals housing AA hubs…Clear is "mysteriously" absent from PHL, CLT, ORD Terminal 3 (AA hub location), DFW Terminals A/B/C/D (non-AA terminals), JFK Terminal 8 (AA hub location), and MIA Concourse D (AA hub location).

I believe the only AA hubs that have Clear lanes with direct access to AA terminals are LAX, PHX, and DCA. 

Clear + TSAPre is an absolute dream. 

That said, even without Clear lanes, I've never waited more than 5 minutes in the TSAPre line at CLT. 

The sensitivity of "random" screenings on the metal detectors appears to be higher though at CLT, I feel like I get stopped for a random check maybe 40% of the time when flying out of CLT compared to almost never at other airports. There have been days when I have seen 4-5 people in a row (including myself) get flagged for a random and sent to the nude-o-scanner. 

It's bizarre because CLT screeners seem to be the most lackadaisical when it comes to screening...I regularly put full-size bottles of body wash/shampoo/conditioner etc. in my carry-on and I've never been reprimanded. One time an agent had to hand-search my bag, found a giant bottle of body wash, looked at it, looked at me, and then just put it back in my bag. That would never fly at other airports...I got screamed at the other day for having a tiny-sized tube of hand lotion in a tote bag that wasn't in a plastic bag.

[xapostrophe]

They are covering permanently the locations where the trees used to be in the atrium. Noticed fresh terrazzo yesterday.20230224_081638.heic20230224_081638.heic20230224_081639.heic

[LKN704]

Confused/sad that they would do this, especially as the trees made the airport look less dumpy and fresher + cleaner.

I wrote to the CLT Twitter account asking why they would remove them...curious if I will get a response. 

[shado_jaguar]

I think this is part of the long awaited atrium renovations that would add a mezzanine over the food court

https://charlottenc.gov/DoingBusiness/Lists/Solicitations/Attachments/810/RFQ 2018-08-005 Terminal Atrium and Mezzanine Renovations.pdf

see page 13

 

[xapostrophe]

12 hours ago, shado_jaguar said:

I think this is part of the long awaited atrium renovations that would add a mezzanine over the food court

https://charlottenc.gov/DoingBusiness/Lists/Solicitations/Attachments/810/RFQ 2018-08-005 Terminal Atrium and Mezzanine Renovations.pdf

see page 13

 

Looks like the new mezzanine would cover the existing trees so this makes sense.    I wonder what the start date is for major construction

[cltcane]

I hope the mezzanine renovation and expansion adds some much-needed lounge space.  AA desperately needs more Admirals Club capacity, and it would be great to get a Capital One/Chase Sapphire/Plaza Premium lounge to ease Centurion Lounge and Club at CLT overcrowding.

[LKN704]

AA loaded flights from Charlotte to Orange/Santa Ana last night. Service starts on 5 July and currently ends on 14 August, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it be extended. 

I wondered if AA would try this route out once they received A321Neos (John Wayne Airport has one of the shortest runways in the country and a standard A321/738 wouldn't be able to profitably serve the route) so I am glad to see it launch. 

CLT will now have nonstop service to three out of the five airports in the Los Angeles Basin. 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by LKN704