Va. Beach Towncenter project

[vdogg]

Anyone hearing how the condo reservations are going at the Town Center?  I see the advertisement pretty regularly now directing folks to the web site to indicate interest.

Chesapeake Pirate

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Apparently very well since the condos have been increased to 38 stories. I know thats not a rock solid indicator but i would think if there were a lack of interest they would be scaling this project back and not increasing its size.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

They won't, my dad lives on the Chesapeake side right next to the Va Beach line and farm land is disappearing and farmers are selling their land because of the value it brings. My dad built his house on old farm land. They are building a Home Depot at the Hillcrest Parkway off of 168 bypass. Its moving its way down there and its inevitable. It might not be condense but there will be houses on larger lots there.

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The green line was meant to prevent development roughly below PAnne Road (or w/e it's called). Development cannot be built below there. It's that simple. Chesapeake seems to be more willing to allow its land to be developed but Va Beach explicitly forbids it... thank God. ONE day it will be taken up but not at least for many decades.

[urbanfan]

The green line was meant to prevent development roughly below PAnne Road (or w/e it's called).  Development cannot be built below there.  It's that simple.  Chesapeake seems to be more willing to allow its land to be developed but Va Beach explicitly forbids it... thank God.  ONE day it will be taken up but not at least for many decades.

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I've always thought Virginia Beach got it right with the green line. Too bad there aren't any more counties/cities like (Newport News, James City County and others) that couldn't make this happen also. I've watched Newport News move from a bustling Downtown/Newmarket area to now Denbigh/Lee hall. It's pretty grotesque to see the sprawl and misuse of land that newport news allowed and partly hampton.

[rusthebuss]

The green line was meant to prevent development roughly below PAnne Road (or w/e it's called).  Development cannot be built below there.  It's that simple.  Chesapeake seems to be more willing to allow its land to be developed but Va Beach explicitly forbids it... thank God.  ONE day it will be taken up but not at least for many decades.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are building houses left and right and I was talking about the VaBeach side is where the houses are being built.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

They are building houses left and  right and I was talking about the VaBeach side is where the houses are being built.

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I'm not sure where you're talking about? Maybe in the Green Run area, but NO WHERE south of the Green Line is seeing development. NO WHERE. It's that simple. Any construction not approved by the city of VB below that line is prohibited... I'm not sure what developments you're talking about???

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I've always thought Virginia Beach got it right with the green line.  Too bad there aren't any more counties/cities like (Newport News, James City County and others) that couldn't make this happen also.  I've watched Newport News move from a bustling Downtown/Newmarket area to now Denbigh/Lee hall.  It's pretty grotesque to see the sprawl and misuse of land that newport news allowed and partly hampton.

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I definitely agree with that. Newport News.... ehhhhh... I think they're getting it right by trying to redevelop a downtown near the center now (though giving up on the lower end of the city is a sad issue)... but yes I wish they would stop sprawling northward. The Endview projects are immense and would pretty much fill out the rest of the city. Although Newport News Park is quite a gem... so they get someeee credit for that

[urbanlife]

Virginia would look more like most states if counties and cities were allowed to work together.

[rusthebuss]

Virginia would look more like most states if counties and cities were allowed to work together.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with that, and I never figured out Va politics. I grew up here and thought that alot of the political moves made here did not made any sense to me but i think that it all has to do with the military in mind.

[urbanlife]

I agree with that, and I never figured out Va politics. I grew up here and thought that alot of the political moves made here did not made any sense to me but i think that it all has to do with the military in mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if cities and counties could work together there wouldnt of been all those mergers that have happened in HR and Nova would of merged some to creat actual cities.

Once a town becomes a city it is no longer allowed to work with its countie, those all the "small towns" and urban developments in the counties. Its just dumb to have and should of been corrected in the early 1800's.

[wrldcoupe4]

In Virginia, all municipalities incorporated as cities are by law (since 1871) independent cities. Other Virginia municipalities, even though they may be more populous than some existing independent cities, are incorporated as towns, which are always located within a county. 39 of the nation's 43 independent cities are in Virginia.

This issue is particularly frustrating in areas such as Richmond. Places like V.B. are so large that even though it is an independent city, it seems to act much more like a consolidated city-county. HR is definitely unique in that so many places are incorporated as cities in such a close vicinity. It was done out of fear or annexation among other factors.

[baobabs727]

VDOGG, I am re-posting your suggestions for questions for my meeting with Gerald Divaris (see "SE RETAIL YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE" PAGE 2). I will summarize his answers below in BLUE.

VDOGG WRITES:

1.) I guess the first question i would ask, on behalf of all hampton roads forumers, is what the heck is the final height on the Westin going to be and if they have settled on a final design?

Mr. Divaris indicated that the final height of the tower would be determined by the needs and parameters of the eventual project. All design decisions will be market driven. Mr. Divaris seemed cautiously optimistic that the tower would mirror the new rendering, both in terms of height and design. He indicated that he was trying to create an iconic structure for Virginia Beach--one that would lift one's eye to the horizon and away from the low-rise (horizontal) sprawl that is the norm here. According to Mr. Divaris, this market has been inclined historically to favor low-rise over high-rise residential development.

2.) The next question i would ask would be whether they are in consultation with the developers of cityview, and the prospective developers of the HQ property to ensure that towncenters feel is carried throughout the district, and doesn't become just a patchwork of ideas that doesn't really mesh?

Mr. Divaris assured me that he is in contact with virtually every property owner in the CBD and surrounding environs in an effort to ensure that any development or redevelopment around Town Center will compliment the overall Town Center design scheme. He was quite open in revealing that there is one property owner who has been less than receptive to his efforts; however, I walked away with the impression that Mr. Divaris was generally pleased with the response of neighboring owners.

3.) I would ask him how they plan to incorporate pembroke mall into the overall scheme of things and when do they plan on conneting the pedestrian bridges across Va. Beach and independence blvds. Walkability is essential to the success of this project, and so far i don't think they have addressed that issue well enough.

Pembroke mall has been "renovated" and the outparcels along the BLVD are being developed/redeveloped to compliment Town Center. The Pedestrian Flyovers may or may not happen depending on whether the owners of Pembroke Mall and AH/Divaris can strike a deal that makes sense for both interests.

4.) Are there any plans to incorporate the properties bounded by Bonney road, independence, and constitution, into the overall towncenter scheme?

TBD by future market demand and landowner intent/will.

5.) Why has it taken so long to attract enough tenants to build a second office tower and how do they plan to address this issue?

Mr. Divaris indicated that he and his staff are working very hard to attract new office tenants to Town Center. He did point out that the first tower was leased in record time, and he expects that market conditions may allow for up to 3 more office or mixed use towers to be developed over the next several years. In stressing the need for a healthy, permanent daytime population for Town Center, Mr. Divaris confirmed that he would like to see a fortune 500 company or any other large corporation relocate their home office or regional offices to Town Center.

6.) Does he feel that his efforts to create a CBD for Virginia Beach will in anyway adversly affect Norfolk?

Mr. Divaris appeared convinced that his efforts at Town Center would in no way negatively affect Downtown. In fact, he heaped praise on Norfolk's redevelopment efforts Downtown and seemed genuinely dismayed by the notion that people would accuse him of trying to hamper Norfolk's economic vitality. Moreover, he opined that if some of the more exclusive of tenants at MacArthur Center would sign on to his Town Center project, these retailers would acheive greater market penetration, increased brand recognition, and reduced unit operating costs--thus benefitting both the retailers and the retail centers which they occupy. Apparently, politics (and not necessarily politics involving elected politicians) may have played a role in hampering/delaying retail leasing at Town Center. Divaris did indicate that he would have several announcements to make over the coming months with respect to Town Center retail leasing, and he assured me that many of the names will be new to the market. Additionally, Mr. Divaris acknowledged that he maintains hopes of landing a traditional anchor store for the Taco Bell/Virginian Pilot block. He further advised that a well-respected, upscale department store has expressed a keen interest in that particular location. Finally, Mr. Divaris did caution that, as a result of the phased nature of this project, the completed retail puzzle would likely not materialize until 2008 or 2009.

[okinawatyphoon]

Wanted: theater operator

Virginia Beach looking for proposals for performing arts center

By Janet Dunphy

Inside Business - Hampton Roads

Monday May 16, 2005

On with the show!

The city of Virginia Beach will have responses in less than two weeks to its request for proposals from those interested in providing programming, operations or both for the new performing arts venue at Town Center.

The city could also decide to scrap the RFP and run the performing arts center on its own.

The RFP was issued on April 1 through the city

[vdogg]

VDOGG, I am re-posting your suggestions for questions for my meeting with Gerald Divaris (see "SE RETAIL YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE" PAGE 2).  I will summarize his answers below in BLUE.

VDOGG WRITES:

1.) I guess the first question i would ask, on behalf of all hampton roads forumers, is what the heck is the final height on the Westin going to be and if they have settled on a final design?

Mr. Divaris indicated that the final height of the tower would be determined by the needs and parameters of the eventual project.  All design decisions will be market driven.  Mr. Divaris seemed cautiously optimistic that the tower would mirror the new rendering, both in terms of height and design.  He indicated that he was trying to create an iconic structure for Virginia Beach--one that would lift one's eye to the horizon and away from the low-rise (horizontal) sprawl that is the norm here.  According to Mr. Divaris, this market has been inclined historically to favor low-rise over high-rise residential development.

2.) The next question i would ask would be whether they are in consultation with the developers of cityview, and the prospective developers of the HQ property to ensure that towncenters feel is carried throughout the district, and doesn't become just a patchwork of ideas that doesn't really mesh?

Mr. Divaris assured me that he is in contact with virtually every property owner in the CBD and surrounding environs in an effort to ensure that any development or redevelopment around Town Center will compliment the overall Town Center design scheme.  He was quite open in revealing that there is one property owner who has been less than receptive to his efforts; however, I walked away with the impression that Mr. Divaris was generally pleased with the response of neighboring owners.   

3.) I would ask him how they plan to incorporate pembroke mall into the overall scheme of things and when do they plan on conneting the pedestrian bridges across Va. Beach and independence blvds. Walkability is essential to the success of this project, and so far i don't think they have addressed that issue well enough.

Pembroke mall has been "renovated" and the outparcels along the BLVD are being developed/redeveloped to compliment Town Center.  The Pedestrian Flyovers may or may not happen depending on whether the owners of Pembroke Mall and AH/Divaris can strike a deal that makes sense for both interests.

4.) Are there any plans to incorporate the properties bounded by Bonney road, independence, and constitution, into the overall towncenter scheme?

TBD by future market demand and landowner intent/will.

5.) Why has it taken so long to attract enough tenants to build a second office tower and how do they plan to address this issue?

Mr. Divaris indicated that he and his staff are working very hard to attract new office tenants to Town Center. He did point out that the first tower was leased in record time, and he expects that market conditions may allow for up to 3 more office or mixed use towers to be developed over the next several years.  In stressing the need for a healthy, permanent daytime population for Town Center, Mr. Divaris confirmed that he would like to see a fortune 500 company or any other large corporation relocate their home office or regional offices to Town Center.

6.) Does he feel that his efforts to create a CBD for Virginia Beach will in anyway adversly affect Norfolk?

Mr. Divaris appeared convinced that his efforts at Town Center would in no way negatively affect Downtown. In fact, he heaped praise on Norfolk's redevelopment efforts Downtown and seemed genuinely dismayed by the notion that people would accuse him of trying to hamper Norfolk's economic vitality.  Moreover, he opined that if some of the more exclusive of tenants at MacArthur Center would sign on to his Town Center project, these retailers would acheive greater market penetration, increased brand recognition, and reduced unit operating costs--thus benefitting both the retailers and the retail centers which they occupy.  Apparently, politics (and not necessarily politics involving elected politicians) may have played a role in hampering/delaying retail leasing at Town Center.  Divaris did indicate that he would have several announcements to make over the coming months with respect to Town Center retail leasing, and he assured me that many of the names will be new to the market.  Additionally, Mr. Divaris acknowledged that he maintains hopes of landing a traditional anchor store for the Taco Bell/Virginian Pilot block. He further advised that a well-respected, upscale department store has expressed a keen interest in that particular location.  Finally, Mr. Divaris did caution that, as a result of the phased nature of this project, the completed retail puzzle would likely not materialize until 2008 or 2009.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks babs.

1) The good points:

a. Up to 3 additional office towers (wow)

b. Full consultation with surrounding property owners

c. Trying to land fortune 500 company

d. Thoughts about incorporating the land to the south

e. Wanting to create an iconic structure for Virginia Beach

f. Effort to work with/not against Norfolk.

g. New retail announcements coming soon.

h. Possible anchor for Taco Bell/Pilot location.

2) The bad points

a. Politics among DT Norfolk and TC holding up retail (Theres no room for this

crap!)

b. Walkways not a done deal (lack of walkability will kill this project.)

c. Some property owners resisting (lets get with the program people)

d. Completed retail not til 08' or 09'

I'm overall pleased with what he had to say in this interview though. Thanks for the info Babs!

[vdogg]

One more good point that i missed. If the design is being driven by market forces then for this thing to have ballooned from 30 to 38 stories the market forces are definately pointing in the right direction.

[okinawatyphoon]

One more good point that i missed. If the design is being driven by market forces then for this thing to have ballooned from 30 to 38 stories the market forces are definately pointing in the right direction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah good point. Demand seems to be high in a lot of places in America right now. But in Hampton Roads, here's what we have for high-rises:

Westin: 30 to 38

Granby: 25 in first tower to 31

Harbor Heights: 11 to 17/18

Harbor's Edge: rumor of second tower.

[urbanvb]

This is great news really. From reading the interview it is going to take some time to get all these things done - from finding a major tenant for the proposed tower to getting all the retail to locate here in the old Taco Bell/Pilot area. I too was disappointed though that the walkover may or may not happen from TC to Pembroke Mall. In regards to retail , a while back Inside Business reported a retail store called Parisian was purportedly looking at this area (though they denied it). And regarding housing, as others have also said, the demand definitely seems to be here for upscale housing and that is great news. And speaking of redevelopment, hopefully soon the old FX building will be looked at by investors for redevelopment as well. That would be a great location for another mixed use project.

[urbanlife]

I have always liked Divaris, ever since he started in VB all he has wanted to do is give it a downtown and after years and years of planning and failed starts it is actually happening for him.

[urbanvb]

Today the weather was fabulous so I decided to wander over to the TC and take a few pics. Little did I know the Neptune Wine Festival was taking place (at least I think) and folks were out in mass! It was really cool to sit down and people watch. See smiling faces, relaxed attitudes and couple holding hands. Ok, enough of the mushy stuff and on to the pics!

Sorry a little dark but just an update Cosmo pic. Things are coming along nicely.

The brick facde is coming along nicely. Thankfully they are taking it up quite a ways.

Took this from the top of Dick's.

Future Westin here on the corner and the Performing Arts Center.

Wow. The little houses now have the white picket fences .. jk. but wonder what is coming here?

Diners were everywhere!

Let's hear it for the Performing Arts Center!

Cops on horses

Wonder whats going here?

They even had live music! After that piped in but that was ok too.

strike a pose!

These planters are really cool! I like the way they break up the concrete and add a splash of living color.

The AH Tower

Sorry these are a little small but hope you enjoyed! B)

[okinawatyphoon]

Yeah I enjoyed them....great pics! But the police on horses....holy crap how much more corny can you get?

[vdogg]

Yeah I enjoyed them....great pics! But the police on horses....holy crap how much more corny can you get?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Va. Beach actually has a very sizeable mounted police force, but they're usually at the oceanfront. Kinda surprised to see them at TC.

[vdogg]

Interesting. I know nothing about that myself. And at 8 floors it is pretty large for sure. I have no clue really.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Weird. I'm sure gonna find out what this is though. No development goes on in this town without me knowing damnit! j/k.

[urbanvb]

haha! I am positive you will find out though. I will be waiting so.. rush along!!

[vdogg]

haha! I am positive you will find out though. I will be waiting so.. rush along!!

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[metalman]

The mounted police is a very viable part of the police department, especially for crowd control, riots. They are able to see above the crowd and are more mobile than officers in cars, and faster than officers on foot. Similar to the police mountain bike patrol, but the officers on horseback have about 1500 lbs more muscle behind them

The mounted police patrol around Town Center and surrounding area over Christmas as well.

[urbanlife]

holy crap, beautiful pictures. I would not of believed that was VB if I had just saw the TC pics. It actually looks like a real downtown frm those shots. It will probably never be a major noticed downtown on the east coast, but it will be VB's downtown.

The combo of the Westin, the AH tower, Culumbus tower, the Cosmo and a collection of two story buildings. It is actually starting to look like a downtown, then with the addition of city view and town square, I think the city will really be on to something there.

If you get a chance I would love a couple skyline pics from locations like the KMart, the "central park," or any other good spot to see all the buildings together.