Norfolk Stores and Retail and Resturants

[hoobo]

As far as Macy's goes, that idea went out the window when they purchased Hecht's. When there were no Macy's in the area, the idea of having one at MacArthur would be the same as Nordstroms, the only one in the area, exclusive, etc, and there were some preliminary talks a few years ago about them. MacArthur wouldn't want 'just another' anchor if they did find one, they'd want an exclusive to this market, Parisian, Bloomingdales, Lord & Taylor, etc, not a store that has X amount of hampton roads locations. Had Macy's not replaced Hecht's throughout the area, there would have been a better chance (not a good one, just a better one) at opening a Macy's.

Macy's was set to come as part of the original mall. But that changed when they were bought by Federated which didn't see why a money-losing company should be expanding. My point is that they are really the only department store that could come to MacArthur. Federated is not going to put a Bloomingdale's in HR. Sak's and Neiman won't even entertain the thought of coming. Parisian is being converted into Belk, which for some reason decided that having a two-tier system of Belk stores with the same name would be a good idea. Then again, they're also the company with 5,000 different store names depending in which you reside. So no way there would be a Belk at MacArthur. Maybe in a few years when the private equity firm that bought Lord & Taylor takes it public, L&T will be in expansion mode and try for the HR market again. Still, most L&T stores are smaller than the Nordstrom at MacArthur. That's why I think that if any department store is to come it would be Macy's. There are Dillard's all over HR but the flagship store is at MacArthur and it is over 25% larger than the local Macy's flagship at Lynnhaven. Macy's could build a new flagship at MacArthur in the 250,000 to 300,000 sqft range and shudder the Military location. Otherwise, as we speculated on here, there won't be just one tennat for the third anchor spot.

[scm]

...and shudder the Military location.

Given how I feel every time I drive past Military Circle, I understand that feeling. But I think you meant "shutter" (grin).

[mikeas]

There is a new building coming up infront of Janaf shopping center and apparently it will be a free standing Circuit City. The shell is almost complete already, this is next to the new Panera Bread.

http://www.janafshopping.com/news.php

[lil-bear]

The Military Circle Macy's is far inferior to other Macy's in the area.

I've been to the Macy's in Lynnhaven and Greenbriar and both of

them have more higher end merchandise.

Dillard's stores are pretty similar when it comes to merchandise,

so why doesn't Macy's be more consistant?

[hoobo]

Given how I feel every time I drive past Military Circle, I understand that feeling. But I think you meant "shutter" (grin).

Yeah, thanks. That's sounds much better. I knew it looked a little funny but was too lazy to check the dictionary.

[NorfolkerAtHeart]

The Military Circle Macy's is far inferior to other Macy's in the area.

I've been to the Macy's in Lynnhaven and Greenbriar and both of

them have more higher end merchandise.

Dillard's stores are pretty similar when it comes to merchandise,

so why doesn't Macy's be more consistant?

I sent a message to Macy's a few weeks ago regarding the inconsistent quality of merchandise and experience at Macy's in Hampton Roads. A VP in the Macy's South headquarters replied to me and then forwarded my message on to the store manager at the Lynnhaven Macy's, which was the main source of my complaints in that message. I spoke with an official in the Lynnhaven store, and told her that I felt that the Macy's stores in Hampton Roads seemed little more than warmed over Hecht's stores. She told me that Macy's is still in the process of fully converting the former Hecht's into the full Macy's experience, which includes different merchandise and service. But she did say that Macy's tailors the stores to the markets that they feel they are serving and that they saw Hampton Roads as a more casual and laid back market, thus the lack of full lines of higher priced labels. I didn't really like her answer and told her that Macy's stands to turn off many potential customers in Hampton Roads by simply rebadging Hechts as Macy's and not really providing a difference in the experience.

I also told her that if all of the stores in Hampton Roads can't support the higher end merchandise of a true New York-style Macy's, then they should at least designate one store to be the flagship or create a new one at MacArthur Center, which would carry full lines of higher end labels and their own in-house brands.

It is pretty sad though that with over 1.6 million people, Hampton Roads still gets short shrift in its retail offerings.

Edited January 26, 2007 by NorfolkerAtHeart

[vdogg]

I am so sick of hearing retailers say that "HR can't support this or that". Take a risk people. You cannot tell me that with 1.6million people you cannot find enough who want high end in at least one of their stores.

[tombarnes]

As long as Nordstrom's and the other high-end stores hold up their end of the bargain, I don't think MacArthur Center has much to worry about. I can easily live without Sunglass Hut and Waldenbooks. If Nordstrom wants to pull out, then we have a problem.

[scm]

I am so sick of hearing retailers say that "HR can't support this or that". Take a risk people. You cannot tell me that with 1.6million people you cannot find enough who want high end in at least one of their stores.

You guys are pissing up a rope. First, take the 1.6M number and cut it in half -- no one from the peninsula will consistently shop here, or v/v. Second, look at the demographics and disposable income. Third, look at the fact that our largest employer has a pretty regulated dress code.

After you get past that, you come face to face with the reality that all of the stores you want action from, are either publicly held or owned by private equity groups. They are numbers people, and the numbers here just don't work (see above).

That said, my wife and I are pretty demanding shoppers (my wife especially!) She hates the Nordstrom's here, because it has nothing in it. There is a paucity of high end shoe stores. But, that all said, there is plenty to like at Francis Kahn, Karen Eagle, Beecroft and Bull -- almost as high end as you need. They just aren't in department stores. (sorry for all you A/X, etc., shoppers -- don't know where to tell you to shop -- grin).

[hoobo]

You guys are pissing up a rope. First, take the 1.6M number and cut it in half -- no one from the peninsula will consistently shop here, or v/v. Second, look at the demographics and disposable income. Third, look at the fact that our largest employer has a pretty regulated dress code.

After you get past that, you come face to face with the reality that all of the stores you want action from, are either publicly held or owned by private equity groups. They are numbers people, and the numbers here just don't work (see above).

That said, my wife and I are pretty demanding shoppers (my wife especially!) She hates the Nordstrom's here, because it has nothing in it. There is a paucity of high end shoe stores. But, that all said, there is plenty to like at Francis Kahn, Karen Eagle, Beecroft and Bull -- almost as high end as you need. They just aren't in department stores. (sorry for all you A/X, etc., shoppers -- don't know where to tell you to shop -- grin).

The population split is more like 60-40, but that's besides the point. I agree with your take on things. And like you, I've been saying who cares if HR doesn't get a Zara, Sak's, or even a full blown Ann Taylor or Brooks Bros, local/regional shops like Beecroft & Bull, Levy's, Karen Eagle, etc. carry those designer brands like Cutter & Buck and Tommy Bahama. This is disturbing. We're starting to agree on things. Some things.

[rusthebuss]

There is a little over a million on the southside.

[Former Resident of HR]

The Military Circle Macy's is far inferior to other Macy's in the area.

I've been to the Macy's in Lynnhaven and Greenbriar and both of

them have more higher end merchandise.

Dillard's stores are pretty similar when it comes to merchandise,

so why doesn't Macy's be more consistant?

Macy's in the Northeast are also like this (inconsistant). I think I read somewhere the reasoning behind this is that Macy's tailors its stores to their perceived socio-economic clientele on a store by store basis. Now that Macy's is here and in full force, I think that we will see more of that. The perception from people who have only experienced Macy's in DC or other high end markets is that Macy's is inconsistant. However, this has been their strategy for quite some time now in markets where they are more prevalent.

Personally, it makes shopping more interesting when there are some things in some stores and not the same things in others. Going into one mall across the country is like going into a clone of just about every mall. Same stores, same layouts, blah blah blah. I don't find the Military Circle Macy's to be any worse/better than the Hecht's that it replaced to be honest.

Edited January 26, 2007 by JPN0731

[urbanvb]

It will be interesting over the long term to see if there are any noticable changes at our glorified Hechts. Hopefully there will be good changes.

[NorfolkerAtHeart]

Macy's in the Northeast are also like this (inconsistant). I think I read somewhere the reasoning behind this is that Macy's tailors its stores to their perceived socio-economic clientele on a store by store basis. Now that Macy's is here and in full force, I think that we will see more of that. The perception from people who have only experienced Macy's in DC or other high end markets is that Macy's is inconsistant. However, this has been their strategy for quite some time now in markets where they are more prevalent.

The source of my frustration with Macy's in HR was after a visit to the Lynnhaven Store. I figured since it was the biggest store in the region, that it would be the "flagship" Macy's, but it was REALLY disappointing to me. I mean, I'm used to shopping at the big mama Macy's on 34th Street and I definitely wasn't expecting anything near that level, and I figured that the Macy's at the other malls would be tailored more to the HR market, but I didnt' expect the Lynnhaven store to be as underwhelming as it was - same Hecht's blandness.

Third, look at the fact that our largest employer has a pretty regulated dress code.

Now, this is one point I've completely overlooked in this whole discussion. All the Navy folks wear their uniforms and don't need to buy dress to impress clothes for work.

[lil-bear]

Has anyone been to the Five Points Community Farm Market in Norfolk lately?

They have done a makeover and it looks great! They have added a coffee bar,

and I think they are even going to offer wireless computer access! Currently

they are open on Saturdays from 9AM until 4PM, but I think they will be open

on more days this spring and summer.

[urbanvb]

Did anyone catch the business blurb in the Pilot about Barnes and Noble yesterday? In the mini article it says B&N will open near Dillards. The new bookstore for Tidewater Community College will take the former Waldenbooks and Fiore spaces on the 2nd floor and FYE and Sports Zones stores on the third floor. I thought the new store was going in the 3rd anchor location?

[vdogg]

Did anyone catch the business blurb in the Pilot about Barnes and Noble yesterday? In the mini article it says B&N will open near Dillards. The new bookstore for Tidewater Community College will take the former Waldenbooks and Fiore spaces on the 2nd floor and FYE and Sports Zones stores on the third floor. I thought the new store was going in the 3rd anchor location?

Maybe recent developments with the Wachovia Center changed their minds. I heard the same thing from a different news source yesterday.

[lil-bear]

Maybe recent developments have occured to where a third anchor has revealed itself!

And why mess up a completely good third anchor site when stores can be shuffled around inside the mall to accommidate the square footage the B&N needs!

[spiker3]

Maybe recent developments have occured to where a third anchor has revealed itself!

And why mess up a completely good third anchor site when stores can be shuffled around inside the mall to accommidate the square footage the B&N needs!

Wishful thinking. No traditional third anchor.

I'll look into this development.

[lil-bear]

Wishful thinking. No traditional third anchor.

I'll look into this development.

I do like the idea that was mentioned before......

.....closing the Macy's at Military Circle and building this area's flagship store at MacArthur Center.

It worked for Dillards, so why not Macy's!!

Edited January 31, 2007 by lil-bear

[vdogg]

Also wishful thinking seems to be development continuing across brambleton for sometime. (tattoo salon ok'd)

While I have nothing against the tattoo salon its location irks me a bit. I had been lead to believe that a dept. store, one that has admittedly now diluted its brand name to the point that they're a dime a dozen, was looking at that area as part of a potential mixed use development. I say potential because it's been a little more than a year and a half since i've heard any such talk and I'm willing to say that that Idea is probably dead. Still though it seems that Norfolk should be chomping at the bit to secure some of that land in order to keep development that is incompatible with their vision from springing up.

[lil-bear]

Also wishful thinking seems to be development continuing across brambleton for sometime. (tattoo salon ok'd)

While I have nothing against the tattoo salon its location irks me a bit. I had been lead to believe that a dept. store, one that has admittedly now diluted its brand name to the point that they're a dime a dozen, was looking at that area as part of a potential mixed use development. I say potential because it's been a little more than a year and a half since i've heard any such talk and I'm willing to say that that Idea is probably dead. Still though it seems that Norfolk should be chomping at the bit to secure some of that land in order to keep development that is incompatible with their vision from springing up.

Yeah, I remember that too!

The writting was almost on the wall for this block, but maybe it won't happen for a good number of years!

Interest in this block should perk up once Granby Tower is heavily under construction and the city shows that they are moving forward with building the new Central Library on the bus station site!

BTW..... anyone heard any news on the new library??????

[gosscj]

In regard to the change in the Barnes & Noble location, I'm having something of a mixed reaction. While I was uncertain whether that store (which would have taken up only a portion of the "third-anchor" space) would have been a perfect fit for the location, I was definitely excited about having more major retail fronting Monticello Ave rather than just inside the mall. MacArthur Center is kind of a wierd thing for retail in the city. You could say that downtown Norfolk is building a strong retail base by noting that there is a downtown H&M, a downtown Apple Store, and now a downtown Barnes & Noble, but it sucks that they all have to be contained inside the mall and rather than enhancing the street life downtown. I really hope Wachovia Center attracts some good retailers - maybe even a few new local shops - and that the "third-anchor" site eventualy gets put to good use.

[vdogg]

I really hope Wachovia Center attracts some good retailers - maybe even a few new local shops - and that the "third-anchor" site eventualy gets put to good use.

As I said I think this was a large part of the decision to reconsider the location.

[spiker3]

As promised, i looked into the B&N situation...

Spoke with the mall GM this afternoon. Originally the plans were for the third anchor site, but the negotiations fell through (which i can understand, no mall access, only to the parking garage, new construction costs, wouldnt thrill me either) The location is correct, Waldenbooks, Fiore, Sports Zone and FYE, all are closed except FYE, which is scheduled to close in the next week or so. Construction has already begun on the store, demolition has begun on the lower level (Walden and Fiore). Look for a Summer 07 opening now that it's not new construction. Also, it appears the Seattles Best store has been downgraded to simply licensed for the coffee, no pastries, large menu, etc, so the cafe has been watered down quite a bit from their initial announcement.

There is however some development going on outside where the skating rink was. There's been some machinery out there, leveling and grading the site, and it looks like some of the sidewalk has been broken up and taken out as well. I asked, and got a smile, wink and can't talk about that one yet, so your guess is as good as mine.

Fink's Jewelers is relocating from near Nordstroms to the old Illuminations/Evo Giongi site, construction has begun there as well, i believe.

Edited January 31, 2007 by spiker3