Hampton Roads Transportation

[MissySchmidt]

With a pending federal economic stimulus package with monies almost assuredly to be directed at building infrastructure, NOW is the opportunity for lots of citizens like you and me to reach legislators and tell them what is our perfect Transportation Solution here in Hampton Roads.

any ideas on how to do this?

[Telmnstr]

With a pending federal economic stimulus package with monies almost assuredly to be directed at building infrastructure, NOW is the opportunity for lots of citizens like you and me to reach legislators and tell them what is our perfect Transportation Solution here in Hampton Roads.

any ideas on how to do this?

As much as I hate to say it...

First, the economic stimulus packages are wrong. The people that profited from setting us up for the 2nd Great Depression are being rewarded.

Second, interstates are vital. There are portions of our region which don't have good interstate access.

Third, reward employers that shift working hours around. The roads could carry the traffic better if it wasn't all on the road at the same time.

I think the problem might rectify itself as people leave the region.

How many people cashed out of other markets to come to our market because it was cheaper. Are they happy? Will they go back once the markets they left return to pre-bubble prices?

What are the options as far as jobs? I don't see much hope for highly skilled young people. There are a few diamonds in the rough, but as someone who has worked for a number of good places (The space place, the particle accelerator place, the warfare simulations place, and I'm on my 2nd private .com type company) I an say that the private companies are WAY more rewarding. The gov't has tons of money to spend on expensive toys (military way more than science/research), but it gets hard staring at that insane .. absolute insane amounts of waste with the DOD. I'd fall back on one of those jobs to feed myself, but it's just not that rewarding. Maybe some of the contractors are okay, but I dunno.

Really, if you want to work for someone that counts, it's probably not in Hampton Roads. And it will never be. ( I could rant on this for a long time ).

People will call me negative, people will say I'm a naysayer, but they won't counter me with good examples and constructive criticism.

[rusthebuss]

What i don't understand is you complain about this area and talk about all the people leaving but you STAY in the region. Thats like someone complaining about who got elected but didn't bother to vote. People get sick of hearing negative about the area yet the people that complain continue to live here

[Telmnstr]

What i don't understand is you complain about this area and talk about all the people leaving but you STAY in the region. Thats like someone complaining about who got elected but didn't bother to vote. People get sick of hearing negative about the area yet the people that complain continue to live here

Yea, I complain because I see what's wrong.

Just picked up another toy from Craigslist (Roland electronic drum kit). Guy is moving back to Michigan. Had a job doing datacom cabling, but as soon as one particular contract was up his employer wanted to drop his pay down to $10/hr. No one else is looking to pay any livable salary either (and this was a position managing a team of others). So he said he found a similar job back in his hometown, which he said has wey less population density and isn't as urban, for $35-40 or something an hour. The guy was surprised I was originally from Hampton Roads, since I was so nice. That kind of made me scratch my head. Seemed like a cool enough guy. *shrug*

Yes, I continue to live here. I have friends here (although some of them are talking about leaving), and I have an interest in seeing the company I work for do well. If that makes sense. At the same time I promote things like our local geek group, I do look at property in Raleigh/Durham area and Northern Virginia.

You can fault me for criticizing I guess, but most locals from our region don't even care enough to look at forums like this.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Telmnstr

[cpeakesqr]

With the talk going around about a stimulus package under Obama, and the emphasis on infrastructure, the Conference of Mayors put together lists for participating cities of projects that are "shovel ready." It's interesting to see what Norfolk and Virginia Beach have put together. VA Beach has over a billion worth of these so-called shovel ready projects. The lists are questionable, to say the least, with some cities asking for things like moving prostitutes off some streets and building dog parks. Hopefully when this stimulus goes through, it will be done in the most pragmatic way where we get the most economic bang for the billions of bucks. Also, we don't need any bridges to nowhere, or projects out in the boonies... especially the VA boonies. I don't want to hear about some turnpike from Turkey Fork to One Tooth Ridge... The 100 biggest metros constitute a majority of the population, and 75% of our total output, that's where the money should go.

US Mayors

Ha! I scooped the Pilot. On second thought, it's not that hard.

Pilot Article

Edited December 25, 2008 by cpeakesqr

[scm]

I don't want to hear about some turnpike from Turkey Fork to One Tooth Ridge...

Heaven forbid that those toothless taxpayers see any benefits. They need to line up and support all the great things on this Christmas tree, like $6 million for snowmaking and maintenance facilities at Spirit Mountain, Minnesota, $4.8 million for a polar bear exhibit in Rhode Island and $1.5 million for a water slide in Florida. Jobs are at stake, damnit. Those no-nothings in the sticks need to stop clinging to their guns and religion, and get in line with all of the smart folks along both coasts. Hell, they were stupid enough to vote for Palin -- no telling what they might do next.

Glad it is your Visa card they are putting this on, and not mine.

[cpeakesqr]

Heaven forbid that those toothless taxpayers see any benefits. They need to line up and support all the great things on this Christmas tree, like $6 million for snowmaking and maintenance facilities at Spirit Mountain, Minnesota, $4.8 million for a polar bear exhibit in Rhode Island and $1.5 million for a water slide in Florida. Jobs are at stake, damnit. Those no-nothings in the sticks need to stop clinging to their guns and religion, and get in line with all of the smart folks along both coasts. Hell, they were stupid enough to vote for Palin -- no telling what they might do next.

Glad it is your Visa card they are putting this on, and not mine.

Yeah let's ignore the fact that I posted a reason not to spend the stimulus where it won't have an impact, so we can just make snarky comments and relish in our perceived political superiority. Glad you felt the need to mention Sarah Palin, because that's about the only part you got right.

[rusthebuss]

Love your new avatar SCM!

[vdogg]

Lets try to bring this discussion back towards transportation. We're starting to veer a little too much into politics here. Also, lets try to remain respectful towards eachother.

[Telmnstr]

My solution would be teleportation.... And where the hell are our flying cars?!?! It's 2009.

[lil-bear]

New Jordan Bridge

Where do these idiots come from???

OK so this guy thinks that a $2.00 toll on a privately built bridge with NO public money will cause traffic to go to the downtown and mid-town tunnels?

What the heck are they going now???? THE TUNNELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Jordan bridge is CLOSED!!!!!!

Let these investors, who are taking all the finacial risk, build the dog-on bridge.

If they can start now, they will have 2 lanes open by July 4, 2010.

We need as many routes as possible!

[mlsimons]

New Jordan Bridge

Where do these idiots come from???

OK so this guy thinks that a $2.00 toll on a privately built bridge with NO public money will cause traffic to go to the downtown and mid-town tunnels?

What the heck are they going now???? THE TUNNELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Jordan bridge is CLOSED!!!!!!

Let these investors, who are taking all the finacial risk, build the dog-on bridge.

If they can start now, they will have 2 lanes open by July 4, 2010.

We need as many routes as possible!

I'm sorry but you can't get mad at the Virginian-pilot commentors; they tend to not know what they are talking about or be knowledged on economic issues. Just let me be.

[lil-bear]

I'm sorry but you can't get mad at the Virginian-pilot commentors; they tend to not know what they are talking about or be knowledged on economic issues. Just let me be.

I wasn't getting mad at any of the commentors, I was getting mad at Dwight Farmer. He is the executive director of the Hampton Roads Planning District Commission. It would make me even more mad to see how much this "genius" gets paid!

[geszes]

I am opposed to them opposing the HRBT. I understand the need for the 3rd crossing, but we need to widen the HRBT as well. This is not an either or proposition, we need both. Fraim needs to get some cajones.

The problem with the Third Crossing I-564 - MMMBT connection is that is that it's an inconvenient detour from the 'straight-line' I-64 HRBT path for locals and visitors alike. It would link I-564 with I-664 that ties back into I-64 at the Coliseum, creating a chokepoint in case traffic levels are already high on both corridors (such as a hurricane evacuation. They might wish to look into setting up contraflow to keep the I-64 and the I-664-originated traffic on opposing sides). The main trunk of traffic is I-64, and unless you put tolls on the existing HRBT or place menacing signage to manipulate people, the bulk of the Third Crossing's traffic will be freight from NIT.

HRBT is notorious for its back-ups. NIT-originated freight when traveling inland tries to avoid HRBT altogether, thereby clogging up Hampton Boulevard and the inadequate Midtown Tunnel. If HRBT and its environs were to be expanded with 2 more lanes in each direction, it would alleviate back-ups and present itself one again as a viable alternative for inland-bound freight. And, like I said, locals and visitors won't diverge from a shorter path that is signed to be the same route anyway, except when forced to (e.g. accidents or tolls). Throw in a Midtown Tunnel expansion and a 58-264 tie-in, the area's traffic woes can be lessened the sensible way.

Sure, the coolness factor of the Third Crossing is pretty high, I admit, but as someone who is often faced with the question of how to get from ODU to the Peninsula, the Third Crossing would be an expensive and ultimately inadequate solution just by itself.

[rusthebuss]

The problem with the Third Crossing I-564 - MMMBT connection is that is that it's an inconvenient detour from the 'straight-line' I-64 HRBT path for locals and visitors alike. It would link I-564 with I-664 that ties back into I-64 at the Coliseum, creating a chokepoint in case traffic levels are already high on both corridors (such as a hurricane evacuation. They might wish to look into setting up contraflow to keep the I-64 and the I-664-originated traffic on opposing sides). The main trunk of traffic is I-64, and unless you put tolls on the existing HRBT or place menacing signage to manipulate people, the bulk of the Third Crossing's traffic will be freight from NIT.

HRBT is notorious for its back-ups. NIT-originated freight when traveling inland tries to avoid HRBT altogether, thereby clogging up Hampton Boulevard and the inadequate Midtown Tunnel. If HRBT and its environs were to be expanded with 2 more lanes in each direction, it would alleviate back-ups and present itself one again as a viable alternative for inland-bound freight. And, like I said, locals and visitors won't diverge from a shorter path that is signed to be the same route anyway, except when forced to (e.g. accidents or tolls). Throw in a Midtown Tunnel expansion and a 58-264 tie-in, the area's traffic woes can be lessened the sensible way.

Sure, the coolness factor of the Third Crossing is pretty high, I admit, but as someone who is often faced with the question of how to get from ODU to the Peninsula, the Third Crossing would be an expensive and ultimately inadequate solution just by itself.

The real reason for the third crossing is for when craney island is built up as a terminal port by 2018. That terminal is suppose to be huge! I can only imagine the traffic that it will cause on the roads. Its my opinion that it benefits the state, the state should pay for it. The state benefits more than the locals do for these terminals. They receive huge revenue from them and control over half of them. Norfolk gets no real estate tax from NIT. State should give more to this area because of that reason

[geszes]

The real reason for the third crossing is for when craney island is built up as a terminal port by 2018. That terminal is suppose to be huge! I can only imagine the traffic that it will cause on the roads. Its my opinion that it benefits the state, the state should pay for it. The state benefits more than the locals do for these terminals. They receive huge revenue from them and control over half of them. Norfolk gets no real estate tax from NIT. State should give more to this area because of that reason

Good point, I did pretty much forget about the Port of Virginia expansion

Though it'd be interesting to have nice juicy facts on where exactly that freight would be headed, I can't help but think that such a project would be best served with a highway connection in the direction of 460/Wakefield/Petersburg, as opposed to facilities feeding traffic towards the good-old Coliseum. VA-164, which is the closest accessible higway in proximity to the new terminal, could be extended to provide a much-needed western spoke of the HR road system. It's still cheaper than the Third Crossing

[rusthebuss]

I do also believe another true reason for the third crossing is a faster way to the ship yard to NOB. It also will add railway to that way to connect Newport News to Norfolk. Part of me believes it is necessary for this region

[mlsimons]

The third crossing is complicated...

first, I do understand that the huge driving factor is that it will allow the ports and craney island to expand. Which is good, but needs to be funded, and most likely will, by mainly the state and federal funds. But, it also helps local traffic congestion, by rerouting traffic that would normally go down Hampton Blvd or over the HRBT. This would have a huge impact!

Also, aside from truck effects, local traffic traveling the HRBT would have a viable altenative should the HRBT be backed up. Taking the 3rd crossing up the MMBT would not be too far out of the way and once traffic began backing up a mile or more on the HRBT you can bet people will take the 3rd crossing.

Now, the third important thing to note, which is usually not mentioned. All NOB/ODU traffic which commutes from Suffolk or Portsmouth (or the newly developing area of Northwestern Portsmouth/Suffolk) or Western Branch could all avoid the midtown tunnel and use the 3rd crossing no problem. Look on the map and you will see it is not out of the way whatsoever.

When we view all of these solutions seperately. We find that this is not simply a 3rd way of getting traffic across the bay. I hope this has helped. Althought the VaPilot guys are too simple to undertand more than one concept at a time.

[mlsimons]

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/01/two-transp...ntroduced-today

I left my comment at the end of the article.

Any thoughts???

[mlsimons]

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/01/study-extr...regions-traffic

In my opinion, this is the best option that has been presented yet.

Thoughts??

[cpeakesqr]

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/01/study-extr...regions-traffic

In my opinion, this is the best option that has been presented yet.

Thoughts??

Actually, that is a couple of options rolled into one for the purposes of the study. Of course a new crossing plus an expanded HRBT will ease traffic, and this is obviously an ideal solution. We still don't have a dime to put toward either.

[Telmnstr]

The real reason for the third crossing is for when craney island is built up as a terminal port by 2018. That terminal is suppose to be huge! I can only imagine the traffic that it will cause on the roads. Its my opinion that it benefits the state, the state should pay for it. The state benefits more than the locals do for these terminals. They receive huge revenue from them and control over half of them. Norfolk gets no real estate tax from NIT. State should give more to this area because of that reason

It should all be moved by rail, out to near i95. Put the truck depot out there.

[varider]

http://www.hamptonroadstransitplan.com/PDF...20submitted.pdf "LARGE PDF FILE

[vdogg]

http://www.hamptonroadstransitplan.com/PDF...20submitted.pdf "LARGE PDF FILE

Whew, 80 pages. That's some heavy reading. I'll comment later tonight after i've had a chance to skim it all.

[urbanlife]

well this is funny, I just glanced through all the pages, didnt take the time to read too much, just looking at the maps. And the funny part that I came across is the next expansion of the LRTs after it reaches the oceanfront is going to be both ways to NOB....so it looks like all the arguing and debating which route we thought would be better doesnt matter.

It looks like for the short term, the Peninsula looks like it will get the shaft when it comes to LRT because they would get it around the third expansion....which is going to be a long time away. I am curious if there are any plans along the Peninsula to step up this plan for their own sake. We havent heard much from that area, the southside has always seemed to treat that area like it was a nonplayer in the region.

Anyway, it looks like some ambitious plans, it is really nice to see HRT thinking regionally with how it wishes to deal with the future of transportation in the region.