Charlotte Off Topic

[grodney]

Wow, thanks for that link. I was not aware of that project. Sad that the through-left is still in the design, but it actually gives me hope that work is going to be done on the intersection, so there might actually be a better chance of having it changed. Maybe?

You are right, though, AK has way more traffic than Comm House. Although a large amount of CM traffic does indeed turn onto AK, going straight through is very common for a number of reason.

And toz, yeah, it really does blow for pedestrians.

[Mobuchu]

The topic is very relevant to what we discuss on here.Free, registration required on WFAE.og. Anyone else going to go?

WFAE Event:

Date: Tuesday Sep 1, 2009

Time: 7:00 PM - 8:30 PM

A Charlotte Talks with Mike Collins taping adds a twist to our next Public Conversation that examines Charlotte's growth and "growing pains." Host Mike Collins will moderate the discussion about visions for managing and shaping the region's future growth, and views on how to keep Charlotte a "livable" city.

Panelists:

+ Hon. Pat McCrory, Mayor of Charlotte

+ Tom Low, Principal, DPZ Charlotte/Founder, Civic By Design Forum

+ Mary Tribble, President, Tribble Creative Group

+ David Walters, Director, Master of Urban Design Program at UNC Charlotte

Admission is free and reservations are required.

Topic Questions:

+ How well has Charlotte's growth been managed to date? Are we a victim of uncontrolled "urban sprawl?"

+ Is Charlotte on its way to becoming a major metropolitan area, on the order of Atlanta, or is Charlotte likely to remain "mid-size for life?"

+ What would be the advantages and disadvantages of Charlotte becoming more "like Atlanta?"

+ Who (and/or what factors) will determine the degree and nature of Charlotte's growth in the future?

+ How well is the Charlotte region doing with traffic management?

+ Can Charlotte remain "cosmopolitan" but "still friendly?"

+ Which quality-of-life factors have the most impact on Charlotte's "marketability" and competitiveness in attracting and retaining corporations, organizations and residents? What threatens those quality-of-life factors?

+ What's the future of Charlotte's neighborhoods (older and newer)?

I wish I could make it to this but I gotta work late tomorrow. Anyone else going? Voyager, make us proud and grill them with some tough questions!! And one request, see what their reactions are to the idea of form based zoning...

[grodney]

I'm not much at reading road designs, but isn't that a triangular island blocking the right lane (coming from the south)? If so, I think that will solve the problem of people jumping out into the right lane and going straight through. Oddly, coming from the north, it doesn't look like things line up the same.

[southslider]

^The lighter lines are the current striping and curbs. The darker lines are the designed improvements. The right turn lanes will likely shift with the new islands, helping break up the intersection for crossing pedestrians. Ironically, creating a separate left-turn lane on Common House (instead of a shared through-left) would actually widen the intersection (similar to the busier legs of Ardrey Kell, where through-traffic actually is the dominant movement).

[ontap]

^The lighter lines are the current striping and curbs. The darker lines are the designed improvements. The right turn lanes will likely shift with the new islands, helping break up the intersection for crossing pedestrians. Ironically, creating a separate left-turn lane on Common House (instead of a shared through-left) would actually widen the intersection (similar to the busier legs of Ardrey Kell, where through-traffic actually is the dominant movement).

Wouldn't it make more sense to make the outside lane a through-right and the inside lane a left only? This way cars driving straight through the intersection don't have to wait for left turning cars. My experience at this intersection is that most southbound cars turn left on AK to go to Blakeney. Why make through vehicles sit multiple lights just to go straight? I agree that the intersection doesn't need to be widened but I don't see the justification for a right turn only lanes on CH.

[grodney]

I agree. I don't want three lanes (left, through, right), I just want it shifted to left-only and through-right. I don't see why it's NOT that way. And not planned to be that way. I don't get it.

But I'll take triangle islands or a staggered Comm House light if I can get either of those.

(By the way, my wife can attest that at morning rush, from the south, half are turning left (Ardrey Kell High) and half are going through (Comm House Middle School and uptown and Ballantyne, etc.). She's not in (or witness to) a near-wreck every day, but close.)

Anyway, I've written to the project contact, and also my homeowner's association, so let the long red tape to nowhere commence.

[southslider]

But conversely, switching to a through-right would mean right-turning cars would have to wait at a red light, and thereby eat up what little green time is given to Community House. It would also be harder for left-turning traffic to yield to a through-right. That's the difficult maneuver happening now when through motorists misuse the right-turn lanes. Luckily, the future islands won't just help pedestrians cross, but also prevent this misuse of the right-turn lane by motorists going straight.

Since you obviously can't make a left or through movement on a red light, it makes sense to combine these movements when a cross street has significantly less green time and its left onto the thoroughfare is heavier than cars going across. Separating the right turns also frees up stacking capacity, since those cars can turn on red.

Adding a left-turn phase for Community House would also risk Ardrey Kell becoming wider, since it would then lengthen its red time and then need more stacking room. As it is now, I think Ardrey Kell has two phases (lefts and through), while Community House has one (through-left), for a three-phase signal. Going to a four-phase signal doesn't seem worth a wider intersection.

Edited September 1, 2009 by southslider

[grodney]

But conversely, switching to a through-right would mean right-turning cars would have to wait at a red light, and thereby eat up what little green time is given to Community House. It would also be harder for left-turning traffic to yield to a through-right. That's the difficult maneuver happening now when through motorists misuse the right-turn lanes. Luckily, the future islands won't just help pedestrians cross, but also prevent this misuse of the right-turn lane by motorists going straight.

Good points, and I'd thought of those, and figured that was the justification for the current striping.

As it is now, I think Ardrey Kell has two phases (lefts and through), while Community House has one (through-left), for a three-phase signal. Going to a four-phase signal doesn't seem worth a wider intersection.

Actually, there are no arrows. So it's just AK all green, then Comm House all green.

If striping is left the same, my phasing suggesting is to leave AK as-is, and do Comm House southbound-only, then Comm House northbound-only. I have no idea if this would work, but it would certainly get rid of the yielding problems for Comm House traffic. (By my anecdotal evidence, AK isn't much of a problem in either direction, and can remain one big green in both directions.)

I guess this is why traffic engineers get the big bucks.

[ontap]

But conversely, switching to a through-right would mean right-turning cars would have to wait at a red light, and thereby eat up what little green time is given to Community House. It would also be harder for left-turning traffic to yield to a through-right. That's the difficult maneuver happening now when through motorists misuse the right-turn lanes. Luckily, the future islands won't just help pedestrians cross, but also prevent this misuse of the right-turn lane by motorists going straight.

Since you obviously can't make a left or through movement on a red light, it makes sense to combine these movements when a cross street has significantly less green time and its left onto the thoroughfare is heavier than cars going across. Separating the right turns also frees up stacking capacity, since those cars can turn on red.

Adding a left-turn phase for Community House would also risk Ardrey Kell becoming wider, since it would then lengthen its red time and then need more stacking room. As it is now, I think Ardrey Kell has two phases (lefts and through), while Community House has one (through-left), for a three-phase signal. Going to a four-phase signal doesn't seem worth a wider intersection.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I have to disagree with your reasoning. Here's why I prefer to have the center lane a left only & the outside lane straight-right. Left turning cars always have to yield to straight or right turning oncoming traffic. This is true of any intersection anywhere. The problem with this intersection is that if your turning left you can't tell if the cars approaching are turning left or heading straight. This is what's causing accidents. It's hard to determine intentions of other motorists. With my scenario you know to always yield to cars approaching in the outside lane. As a motorist this is simplier to process. With the current configuration you have to yield to both approaching lanes as you guess if the driver approaching you is turning or going straight. As for stacking right turns in the outside lane, I'm not really sure this is a problem since most vehicles don't turn that direction -- plus this intersection truly isn't that busy with straight traffic. I would think that fewer accidents far outweighs the occassional driver who has to wait for a green light to turn right because someone in front of them wants to go straight.

[tozmervo]

The topic is very relevant to what we discuss on here.Free, registration required on WFAE.og. Anyone else going to go?

I'm not sure how you viewed it from the audience perspective, but I finally got to listen to the podcast and thoroughly enjoyed the discussion. I especially liked when they played the three comments from residents of Ballantyne, Waxhaw and Tega Cay all complaining about traffic and urban sprawl.

All four panelists (including Pat - kudos on his reference to Weddington Rd) were really knowledgeable and articulate about the issues. I appreciate that Mary Tribble had looked up the stats and found that Charlotte is basically Atlanta circa 1988 today.

While they started to touch on it, I do wish they had gone a little deeper into the basic problem that most people will fight tooth and nail against basic changes that will help reduce congestion and improve neighborhood livability. People want to be absolutely isolated on their little cul-de-sacs and don't understand that cul-de-sacs are largely responsible for the state of our arterial roads today.

[voyager12]

What I took away from the meeting : everyone is scared of becoming atlanta, there is no common belief for responsible development, there is little or no ability to control anything.

[New Name]

What I took away from the meeting : everyone is scared of becoming atlanta, there is no common belief for responsible development, there is little or no ability to control anything.

I finally got to listen to the podcast and was pretty disappointed. Maybe because I feel like we've had more relevant, more targeted solutions on UP than they had with the professional panel. Now, I understand that you're not going to crack-the-case of urban sprawl on a 1 hour public radio show - but - the trend is that the citizens are interested and concerned. The citizens are educating themselves to the buzz words: "urban sprawl," "renewable," "smart planning." I think WFAE and Mike Collins had a responsibility to provide an inventory of these concepts in practice. Instead of saying "We don't want to be Atlanta," (because that is such a broad statement), it needed to be

(examples):

NO: "We don't want to hollow out the core of our downtown for parking structures."

YES: "We DO want more developments like Atlantic Station, where reclaimed urban infrastructure is rebuilt in urban and walkable ways with road and pedestrian access presented in urban ways."

NO: "We don't wan to continue to build suburban retail developments on natural greenspace outside the 485 belt."

YES: "We do want to provide ONE (or limited) magnet shopping districts for the suburban counties (and yes people, when you live in the subURBS, you live in a sublevel of your urban city - your city SHOULD be your magnet!)"

NO: "We don't want to continue to build wider roads into the greenspace outside of the 485 belt - encouraging more access and easier ability for sprawled out neighborhoods."

YES: "We do want to use the infrastructure we have to it's maximum capacity. Only when one existing corridor has reached critical mass (a sliding scale term than should be determined for each individual pod), should we annex further greenspace for residential neighborhoods. (This is the effect that combats "hollow core cities").

Edited September 5, 2009 by The Escapists

[tozmervo]

Ok, since no one else has asked, I will - wth happened to monsoon? He hasn't posted in a month now.

[Neo]

Ok, since no one else has asked, I will - wth happened to monsoon? He hasn't posted in a month now.

I won't divulge details, but he is no longer part of the staff.

[Norm2]

I had also noticed that Monsoon has not been posting. The forums seem so much more.....quiet. I'm used to seeing more action LOL!

[Boricua]

Ok, since no one else has asked, I will - wth happened to monsoon? He hasn't posted in a month now.

I was going to ask the same thing but you beat me too it.

[Miesian Corners]

I had also noticed that Monsoon has not been posting. The forums seem so much more.....quiet. I'm used to seeing more action LOL!

Norm, there is a very big difference between "action" and "mean-spiritedness".

[New Name]

Norm, there is a very big difference between "action" and "mean-spiritedness".

I always enjoyed Monsoon's contrarian viewpoint - but I never enjoyed his tone. That said - I hope UP won't turn into an agreeable lovefest of idealism (alright...who's gonna step up and disagree with everything...?)

[voyager12]

I was alway impressed by Monsoon's encyclopedic knowledge of local minutae. Unfortunately, he just came across as too combative.

[SmellyCat]

While monsoon certainly was very knowledgeable, sadly he loved baiting people into flaming wars when they wouldn't do his bidding. I say good riddance. I think these boards will be better for it.

[DEnd]

(alright...who's gonna step up and disagree with everything...?)

oh oh I'll do it... And to top it all off I don't even live in Charlotte! Heck I don't even live in a city, I live on 33 acres north of Shelby. I know whats best for you and if you don't agree then you're a fool.

[Neo]

I know there were many disagreements with how monsoon moderated, but let's leave it for what it is and move on. I'm certain we can all choose to look to a brighter future and not dwell on past events.

[Eastman]

I know there were many disagreements with how monsoon moderated, but let's leave it for what it is and move on. I'm certain we can all choose to look to a brighter future and not dwell on past events.

Agreed. Hope your feeling better Neo.

[Neo]

Agreed. Hope your feeling better Neo.

Thanks, I am feeling much better. I look like a bionic man with my temporary bionic arm, but at least I still have an arm! Not sure if I posted this for folks other than the staff:

I'm working on getting an x-ray of my arm post surgery as the plate and screws are quite interesting.

[orulz]

I have to tell you Neo, your accident has made me into a more careful driver - now every time I start off at a red light I now double-check both ways to make sure nobody is trying to run the red light on the cross street. Especially since I have an old 1993 car with no air bags at all.

Not sure, maybe this wouldn't have helped in your situation, but anyway.