Nashville Bits and Pieces

[Nathan_in_DC]

Thanks Gaylord for f**king us over, yet again. Their sale of their property has caused Dolly to pull out of the proposed water park.

It sucks, but I didn't expect that to ever pan out anyway.

[MLBrumby]

I lived on Hayes St. and and I can attest that it is certainly PRIME for residential development. It's in the heart of midtown, a short walk to everywhere, and could be a beautiful neighborhood with just a little development.

I'd say... definitely prime now that HCA is going to be moving in at Palmer's Summit.

[East Side Urbanite]

I lived at Louise and Hayes in 1990-91. Yes, the area is ripe for residential.

WW

[nashvillwill]

I lived at Louise and Hayes in 1990-91. Yes, the area is ripe for residential.

WW

Which building did you live in WW?

I lived at The Lee from 2008-2010. I loved that building. It was great to be so close to Elliston and Cafe Coco. When I moved in there, my grandmother said it was a blast from the past. She had helped her aunt move into that building when she (my g'ma) was a teenager in 1935. She reminisced about how fancy it was at the time, being one of the only "big city" style apartment buildings. At that time it was called The Robert E. Lee building. It was right behind the governors mansion and was the premier address in the city. She couldn't remember which apartment she had lived in, but remembered it was on the first floor (which I lived on). We joked it could have been the same unit.

I think that building has great carachter. It's a little run down now, but still a good place to live. The lobby has the look of what probably used to be an area for a doorman and a concierge area. I imagine in its prime, it was pretty high class. The elevators, with the metal scissor style grates, area magnificent.

I kinda miss that place.

[chelovek]

Cool shot of Live on the Green. A great civic use of the public square. Nice to see so many utilizing it. Plus this is why we are Music City!

Great picture! Walk/Bike Nashville valeted more than 200 bikes that night, and all of the municipal racks were full. And I noticed a ton of trees and signposts with bikes on them as well. I know that the LOTG organizers expected as many as 10,000 that night, but for so many people to arrive on bikes is, to me, an indicator that a LOT more people are choosing to live closer in to the city. I know in previous years that 40-50 bikes at the WBN valet service was considered a big turnout.

[bigeasy]

Thanks Gaylord for f**king us over, yet again. Their sale of their property has caused Dolly to pull out of the proposed water park.

I personally am really happy that the water park is going to be cancelled. We already have Nashville Shores and then the Wave Pool. I do not see why Nashville would need anything else in that market. The snow park sounded really bad also. If it is anything like the one in Georgia, then I hope it never pans out. What they need to push is an amusement park like Opryland.

[MLBrumby]

Maybe they will someday... but Dolly will not be a part of it. She wouldn't sponsor competition for her park in East Tennessee. And it won't be Gaylord either, now that they've stepped out of the resort business. However, they may partner with a Six Flags as the entertainment partner. GET made it quite clear 14 years ago that they do not want all the issues associated with running an amusement park like O'land. I was surprised to hear that they were even proposing this water/snow park. And I agree with bigeasy that this thing would be redundant to the current offerings in the area. As I understand the plan, the snow park portion would only be active during the cooler months.

[arkitekte]

I honestly don't see a major theme park thriving in Nashville, or Tennessee for that matter. The problem with theme parks is that the product rarely changes, and at $35-60 per person, how many times will a family actually go to it in the course of a year to ride the same rides? There's a reason so many have closed in the past few years.

[MLBrumby]

Safe to say that Dollywood is thriving!

"Amusement Park" is such a general, wide-ranging application. Opryland was quite popular in a different time... in a much smaller market, and with more competition in surrounding cities at the time. Where did O'land go wrong? Well, they hit a plateau of visitors at around 2 million. Three things became apparent after GET bought the park in the aftermath of the AmGen acquisition of NLT Corporation in the early 1980s. GET got O'land as a part of the package... and really never wanted the liability, costs of marketing and operating, and the capex required to stay abreast of trends in amusement rides and attractions. Sure, there were a few rides added after GET bought the park, but they had their sights on dumping the park pretty soon after their acquisition. Not by accident, the attendance gradually dropped from 1990 forward (even before their plans were set in stone).

So what would sell now? Well, big draws are of course Roller Coasters... and that's almost an expected baseline thing all parks need to stay competitive. A new amusement park would need to start with at least 3 coasters just to make a splash (no pun). That's a huge expense... no doubt. And Gaylord would never do that ... even if they weren't moving out of the resort business. Bottom line, Gaylord won't be the one. But a music-theme park would sell, and quite well. Of course, it would have to be in Nashville... and not some other market not known for music.

Who would? That's a good question... because the startup costs would be prohibitive for a new company. Loews and Six Flags are not looking for new markets. Yes, the Six Flags franchises in Texas and California are relatively close and do fairly well (for their company). Herschend and Disney also would not be inclined to compete against themselves with a new park. Disney has a much wider draw, but they've been mentioned as looking for a possible 2-3 mini-parks focused on a single theme such as music (from their movies and live entertainment). But that's not been discussed since the recession.

The best candidates look like either Cedar Fair or Universal (especially with their ties to Music Row). Cedar doesn't have a park close to Nashville, and their only one in the south is pretty shabby. Any new park in Nashville would have to be a music-themed attraction with at least three coasters. The Nashville market is now four times the size it was in 1970, when Opryland opened... and the convention draw of the new MCC will draw a whole new market for people who come the Nashville on business and realize it's a great place to drive with their families. Nashvlle's number of visitors is not far behind the numbers who go to the Smokies too.

Edited October 1, 2012 by MLBrumby

[UTgrad09]

I noticed that the Apple Market (29th and West End) that serves the Vandy area is no more. It is now a Piggly Wiggly (saw the Grand Opening sign today, so it must be a relatively recent development).

I had never been in the Apple Market, so I don't know what they had to offer. Is this a pretty good development for this neighborhood, or basically more of the same?

[arkitekte]

I noticed that the Apple Market (29th and West End) that serves the Vandy area is no more. It is now a Piggly Wiggly (saw the Grand Opening sign today, so it must be a relatively recent development).

I had never been in the Apple Market, so I don't know what they had to offer. Is this a pretty good development for this neighborhood, or basically more of the same?

Someone opened a Piggly Wiggly?? I thought those were pretty much long gone..especially when the one on Madison here in Memphis closed a year or two ago.

[chelovek]

I noticed that the Apple Market (29th and West End) that serves the Vandy area is no more. It is now a Piggly Wiggly (saw the Grand Opening sign today, so it must be a relatively recent development).

I had never been in the Apple Market, so I don't know what they had to offer. Is this a pretty good development for this neighborhood, or basically more of the same?

The employees wear different shirts now. Beyond that I haven't noticed any change.

[smeagolsfree]

Office market occupancy rates improve. Great news for the Middle TN area.

http://nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2012/10/2/our_office_market_chugs_ahead

Financing for new garage @ NCC with hopes of a new 25 story tower

http://nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2012/10/2/bbt_unit_financing_city_center_garage_build

[timmay143]

Great picture! Walk/Bike Nashville valeted more than 200 bikes that night, and all of the municipal racks were full. And I noticed a ton of trees and signposts with bikes on them as well. I know that the LOTG organizers expected as many as 10,000 that night, but for so many people to arrive on bikes is, to me, an indicator that a LOT more people are choosing to live closer in to the city. I know in previous years that 40-50 bikes at the WBN valet service was considered a big turnout.

Very, very cool and great to hear!!

[timmay143]

Oh man so slow around here. This thing opened today...

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20121002/business01/310020018/nashville-s-new-28th-avenue-connector-receives-raves?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7Cfrontpage&gcheck=1&nclick_check=1

[chris holman]

A huge mix use development planned for Vanderbilt area!! Very Nice http://m.bizjournals...ew/page_9489262

[chris holman]

Sorry this was already posted.

[timmay143]

^^Wow, it's like 2005-2007 all over again.

[UTgrad09]

^^Wow, it's like 2005-2007 all over again.

Let's hope it doesn't lead up to 2008-2010 all over again.

Not to be too negative or anything, but out of all these proposals, we should expect some of them to be shelved or just not pan out. Still, it's amazing what is coming out of the ground right now.

I would personally like to see a couple more downtown projects go up with all this momentum that we have. We all know 505 is a long shot...but I really wish that a couple of the surface lots will be replaced with 10-30 story residential towers (depending on location).

[bwithers1]

I would personally like to see a couple more downtown projects go up with all this momentum that we have. We all know 505 is a long shot...but I really wish that a couple of the surface lots will be replaced with 10-30 story residential towers (depending on location).

Or that an office building really does go on top of the new garage at the Nashville City Center property. And that some sort of use is found for the soon-to-be-former Regions building. Having that thing sit empty for too long would seriously eat at the CBD vacancy numbers and could actually scare off financing for new CBD office buildings due to those vacancy rates. And who knows how low the rents could potentially go in the Regions building. It will need a gut rehab either for office or for residential use. I'm sure that it has great views.

I know that these aren't surface lots, but they are probably the most "ready" sites in the traditional downtown area (not Sobro or the Gulch) for redevelopment. So many of the surface lots in the traditional downtown area are either (1) small or (2) in some kind of holding pattern either for (a) the Federal Courthouse proposal and (b) Tony's grand plans for 5th/Church. It almost seems that development of parcels across the street from these two blocks is waiting to see what, if anything, actually goes in there, so the impact of those looming plans casts a wide drag net.

Still, it is more conceivable that residential/hotels could go on some of those small lots than office uses. And more residents could finally get us to a critical mass for more downtown retail.

[barakat]

I'd like to see the two lots on the corner of 3rd Ave and Church filled with condos/apartments with street level retail. Same for the former Algernon Blair site at 2nd and Church.

[Guest]

BW1, you said it. The Feds need to break-ground on the property in limbo or release it for development. It is too prime to sit any longer. The lack of progress has stifled any development on my side of downtown..... (9th N to 6th and Commerce to Union).

[dmillsphoto]

I'd like to see the two lots on the corner of 3rd Ave and Church filled with condos/apartments with street level retail. Same for the former Algernon Blair site at 2nd and Church.

ARCH BUILDING!!! 1 building, 2 lots, Church St runs underneath it! DO IT!!! If only we were so progressive.

[MLBrumby]

BW1, you said it. The Feds need to break-ground on the property in limbo or release it for development. It is too prime to sit any longer. The lack of progress has stifled any development on my side of downtown..... (9th N to 6th and Commerce to Union).

Congressman Jim Cooper has admitted to the Tennessean that he has had no power to get the courthouse funded. It's been sitting on the GSA's priority list for twenty years. Regardless of you politics, does anyone think Marsha Blackburn couldn't get this thing funded... regardless of who was in charge of the House.

Maybe it's not such a bad thing that Cooper hasn't been successful. I would really rather see a courthouse like the one in Sacramento ( http://en.wikipedia...._south_side.jpg ) at that site... when it was built, Sac was about the size Nashville is now... and it is absolutely beautiful. This thing by Michael Graves is so '80s! And as I have noted on a previous post, I would much rather the site be the corner of Demonbreun and 8th Avenue, but that parcel was just sold by the credit union to the Lutheran church in that block.

Edited October 4, 2012 by MLBrumby

[UTgrad09]

I'd like to see the two lots on the corner of 3rd Ave and Church filled with condos/apartments with street level retail. Same for the former Algernon Blair site at 2nd and Church.

Those are definitely two of the ones I'm talking about. I think something modest and brick with a facade that fits in with the historic structures would be nice (or something that mimics the look of Stahlman or American Trust just to the north). I would say no more than 10 stories for those.

I also think that perhaps a taller building (but still with a more classical design) would look good on the next lot at 2nd and Church. Maybe closer to 20 stories/200 ft...something that will look striking from the East Bank or Shelby Street Bridge.