Carolina Panthers

[ah59396]

Look at Cam being mediocre all over the field today.  Just being mediocre and driving the Panthers 80 yards with 2 minutes left to beat Seattle in Seattle.  Very mediocre.

[cltbwimob]

^^^I am normally not a Cam Newton apologist but those last two drives were Tom Brady style drives.  Good job today.

But...it takes two to complete a pass.  Also good job to the worst receiving corps in the league.  Not too bad for a group that is lucky if they can get their shoes on the correct foot according to some.

Anyways great job BY THE ENTIRE TEAM today.  The last time they were 5-0 they went to the Super Bowl.

[RiverwoodCLT]

It is not the time to over look any team.

[HopHead]

Yea, about that mediocre QB of the Panthers leading a game winning drive against one of the toughest places to play in the NFL...5-0 beatches...

[Dale]

I never get tired of that stunned look on Pete Carroll's face.

[CLTProductions]

Look at Cam being mediocre all over the field today.  Just being mediocre and driving the Panthers 80 yards with 2 minutes left to beat Seattle in Seattle.  Very mediocre.

[caterpillar2]

 

If the Panthers go 7-5 the rest of the way, Cam will pass Kerry Collins in Winning Pct, and will be just behind Rodney Peete and Matt Moore!

(Ha ha, I'm joking here, though the stat is real.  Calling Cam "mediocre" is trollish at best.)

 

Not being in the top 10 quarterbacks makes one mediocre at best. A quarterback is normally best at throwing the football, not running. His team carries him and even mediocre quarterbacks have exceptionally good days and get a few good throws once in a while.  Just because I see him differently doesn't make me a "troller."  I hope his skills in the last quarter of the last team will prevail.

[MilZ]

Not being in the top 10 quarterbacks makes one mediocre at best. A quarterback is normally best at throwing the football, not running. His team carries him and even mediocre quarterbacks have exceptionally good days and get a few good throws once in a while.  Just because I see him differently doesn't make me a "troller."  I hope his skills in the last quarter of the last team will prevail.

How many other mediocre quarterbacks are being discussed as an MVP candidate 7 weeks into the season?

[cltbwimob]

Six and OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[RiverwoodCLT]

Pay back is hell.

[ah59396]

16-0!  Whoop whoop!!

[CLTProductions]

I'll still never understand this decision: Crucial 3rd down at the end of the game. Running game is on fire between veterans Tolbert and Stewart. So what do we do on this crucial 3rd down guys? Ron: "I know let's run with the rookie 5th round pick!" Rest of team: "uhhhhhh sure" 

That made absolutely no sense and was moronic. But awesome game and win. Indy is looking absolutely awful, so we should shine again on Monday night next week.

[ah59396]

I'll still never understand this decision: Crucial 3rd down at the end of the game. Running game is on fire between veterans Tolbert and Stewart. So what do we do on this crucial 3rd down guys? Ron: "I know let's run with the rookie 5th round pick!" Rest of team: "uhhhhhh sure" 

That made absolutely no sense and was moronic. But awesome game and win. Indy is looking absolutely awful, so we should shine again on Monday night next week.

Fresh legs.  Injuries we don't know about.  A specific play they've practiced for that situation.  There could be 100 reasons why the coaching staff made that decision.

[CLTProductions]

 

Fresh legs.  Injuries we don't know about.  A specific play they've practiced for that situation.  There could be 100 reasons why the coaching staff made that decision.

Stewart and Tolbert continued to run after that....was just a dumb play call, c'mon you can say it  

[ah59396]

Stewart and Tolbert continued to run after that....was just a dumb play call, c'mon you can say it  

But you don't know that.  That's what I'm saying.  Had the guy broken it for a 10 yard gain, Rivera would have been praised for "thinking outside the box" or something like that.  People only think play calls are bad when they don't work.  If that end around that Ginn ran for 45 yards would have been stuffed in the back field, people would have complained about the offense being "too fancy" or something equally as silly.  I'm not saying the coaching staff is always right, but I'd be kidding myself if I think I know more than they do.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Big test coming in 2 weeks,  when Green Bay comes to town.

[cltcane]

To add to the Cam Newton discussion, I think quarterbacks get unfair praise when teams are winning and unfair blame when they are losing.  None of the other 21 starters get anywhere near the attention a quarterback does.  Yes, Cam led a last-minute scoring drive last week to seal our win over the Seahawks, but he likely wouldn't have had to if he hadn't thrown two interceptions that lead to Seattle field goals.  And he definitely can't throw 2-3 interceptions a game against the Packers or Falcons and expect our defense to win the game again.  In my opinion, the MVP talk surrounding Cam is premature at best.  Comparing him to other starting QBs, he is currently is ranked 30th in pass completion percentage, 28th in passing yards per game, tied for 7th (worst) in interceptions thrown, is middle-of-the-pack in touchdowns thrown, and has the 5th-lowest QB rating.  And not all of this can be blamed on our receivers (Greg Olsen is one of the better receiving TEs in the league, and Kelvin Benjamin has not yet proven himself to be the piece of the puzzle that makes us Super Bowl contenders).  Call me crazy, but how can a QB with these stats be in the discussion for NFL MVP?  Because he is the starting QB of a 6-0 team that no one ever thought would be undefeated at this point in the season.  That's it.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

All that said, I hope Cam starts to live up to this early MVP talk.  I would LOVE another deep playoff run and (of course) a Super Bowl appearance.  Go Panthers!!!

 

[ah59396]

QBR?

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-rating-by-total-and-components/2015/

 

Tyrod Taylor is 5th.  Josh Mccown is 9th.  Brandon Weeden is 14th.  I don't see other teams clamoring to add these superstars.  I'll take 28th ranked Cam all day over these clowns.

[MilZ]

If Cam Newton completed 75% of his passes in this offense, he still may not be in the top 5 in the league. Shula runs a ball control offense designed to keep our defense rested for the end of the game.  Cams first year in the league with Chud as our OC, Cam's numbers were awesome, but we were also getting destroyed late in games.  Football isn't about how many yards you can throw for in a game, and MVP doesn't mean player with the best stats. I honestly feel like anyone who watches should be able to see these things.  I don't know about any of you, but I like our system and it will never produce monster passing numbers over any span of games. Thankfully the people who make that decision don't just look at a stat sheet or fantasy numbers to determine player worth.

Even pointing out his three interceptions as a stat to discredit him doesn't make sense. The first "interception" was a perfect pass that Ted Ginn had ripped from his arms on the way to the ground and if I'm not mistaken, another was popped up in the air off of Corey Brown's hands on a crossing route.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000561174/Burleson-Cam-Newton-showing-maturity-at-quarterback

Edited October 26, 2015 by MilZ

[Durhamite]

To add to the Cam Newton discussion, I think quarterbacks get unfair praise when teams are winning and unfair blame when they are losing.  None of the other 21 starters get anywhere near the attention a quarterback does.  Yes, Cam led a last-minute scoring drive last week to seal our win over the Seahawks, but he likely wouldn't have had to if he hadn't thrown two interceptions that lead to Seattle field goals.  And he definitely can't throw 2-3 interceptions a game against the Packers or Falcons and expect our defense to win the game again.  In my opinion, the MVP talk surrounding Cam is premature at best.  Comparing him to other starting QBs, he is currently is ranked 30th in pass completion percentage, 28th in passing yards per game, tied for 7th (worst) in interceptions thrown, is middle-of-the-pack in touchdowns thrown, and has the 5th-lowest QB rating.  And not all of this can be blamed on our receivers (Greg Olsen is one of the better receiving TEs in the league, and Kelvin Benjamin has not yet proven himself to be the piece of the puzzle that makes us Super Bowl contenders).  Call me crazy, but how can a QB with these stats be in the discussion for NFL MVP?  Because he is the starting QB of a 6-0 team that no one ever thought would be undefeated at this point in the season.  That's it.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

All that said, I hope Cam starts to live up to this early MVP talk.  I would LOVE another deep playoff run and (of course) a Super Bowl appearance.  Go Panthers!!!

 

NFL is about W's regardless of opponent because Carolina could easily lose to Indy next Monday.  So 6-0 is a worthy record although most of the wins can be credited to the defense which frankly isn't as good as year's past due to injury and the general nature of free agency.  Cam did excel in the second half against the sea chickens and had an MVP type 4th quarter, not just one drive but that entire quarter.  The Panthers are a defensive-minded team and they've mostly prioritized their draft picks to reflect that philosophy.  Cam the MVP?  Nope, but his numbers don't tell the entire story as expected.  He's improved immeasurably with reading defenses and adjusting the play call for success.   RR and OC have the luxury of using Cam as an extension of the running game creating decoy scenarios making it much more difficult to defend (basically saving draft picks or allowing them to continue a major focus on the other side of the ball).  It's a catch 22 in my opinion, if Cam had been drafted by an offensive minded coach/organization, I think his passing ability would have improved faster given he was mostly raw talent with little collegiate experience or working in pro style offenses.  He has  a strong arm with minor mechanical defects that create some difficulty with touch passes and tendency to float the ball at times. 

I do think it's a risky proposition to have Cam involved in some many running plays given the length and demand of the season.  I'm not so certain he will avoid injury and if not, the Panthers don't have the offensive fire power to use similar QBs as a decoy to frustrate and confuse defenses.  Is Cam MVP worthy right now?  Not really close in my book but if he'll take a few less chances with risky throws and focus on completion rates (60%+) which was an early season goal he was striving to attain he could easily get in the conversation by year's end.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Durhamite

[cltcane]

First, note to self: Criticizing Cam Newton is very unpopular on this forum.

Second, all very valid points, ah59396, MilZ, and Durhamite.  It's true 2 of 3 interceptions yesterday weren't Cam's fault, and numbers on paper don't always tell the whole story and don't reflect intangibles.  I think we're all in agreement that Cam is a fantastic athlete and a great team leader, but I just think he should be a more polished and consistent QB at this point in his career.  I know people are going to say his salary is in line with his talent in today's NFL, but I think we have the right to critique the performance of any player who makes $20+ million a year whether our team is 6-0 or 0-6.  I'm not hating on Cam, just pointing out that he has room to get better and will need to if we expect him to lead Carolina to a Super Bowl.

[ah59396]

First, note to self: Criticizing Cam Newton is very unpopular on this forum.

Second, all very valid points, ah59396, MilZ, and Durhamite.  It's true 2 of 3 interceptions yesterday weren't Cam's fault, and numbers on paper don't always tell the whole story and don't reflect intangibles.  I think we're all in agreement that Cam is a fantastic athlete and a great team leader, but I just think he should be a more polished and consistent QB at this point in his career.  I know people are going to say his salary is in line with his talent in today's NFL, but I think we have the right to critique the performance of any player who makes $20+ million a year whether our team is 6-0 or 0-6.  I'm not hating on Cam, just pointing out that he has room to get better and will need to if we expect him to lead Carolina to a Super Bowl.

I don't disagree with you.  Criticizing Cam is fine, but it's not like he doesn't already get TONS of it.  I mean, since day 1 he's been called a bust and even today, by his OWN FANS, is considered nothing more than mediocre.  It's just such a tired claim at this point.  I hate beating a dead horse, but Cam is probably asked to do more with less than any QB in the league.  And, as MilZ noted, when he was in an offense built around throwing, he produced the type of gaudy numbers that seem so coveted by some.  Of course, it resulted in losses.  And yeah he's got Greg Olsen, but c'mon.  Would Ted Ginn be the #1 receiver on any other team in the NFL?  Or Philly Brown #2?  I honestly can't think of a team with a worse receiving corps.

 

The Panthers play ugly football.  And they win with it.  Cam is the type of quarterback we need in that system.  I can't think of another QB besides maybe Big Ben that wouldn't already be dead after the 4 years of pounding Cam's taken with no real protection until (finally) this season.

So criticism?  Yes, of course.  There isn't a single player in the NFL that is perfect.  But Cam is a freak athlete that is playing in an offense that throws the ball 20-30 times a game and asks him to run it 5-10 times on top of that.  I don't think he is having an MVP caliber season when compared to what Brady is doing this year in New England.  But there is a reason that many are at least including Cam in the conversation.  And it isn't because he's 28th in QBR.

[caterpillar2]

To add to the Cam Newton discussion, I think quarterbacks get unfair praise when teams are winning and unfair blame when they are losing.  None of the other 21 starters get anywhere near the attention a quarterback does.  Yes, Cam led a last-minute scoring drive last week to seal our win over the Seahawks, but he likely wouldn't have had to if he hadn't thrown two interceptions that lead to Seattle field goals.  And he definitely can't throw 2-3 interceptions a game against the Packers or Falcons and expect our defense to win the game again.  In my opinion, the MVP talk surrounding Cam is premature at best.  Comparing him to other starting QBs, he is currently is ranked 30th in pass completion percentage, 28th in passing yards per game, tied for 7th (worst) in interceptions thrown, is middle-of-the-pack in touchdowns thrown, and has the 5th-lowest QB rating.  And not all of this can be blamed on our receivers (Greg Olsen is one of the better receiving TEs in the league, and Kelvin Benjamin has not yet proven himself to be the piece of the puzzle that makes us Super Bowl contenders).  Call me crazy, but how can a QB with these stats be in the discussion for NFL MVP?  Because he is the starting QB of a 6-0 team that no one ever thought would be undefeated at this point in the season.  That's it.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

All that said, I hope Cam starts to live up to this early MVP talk.  I would LOVE another deep playoff run and (of course) a Super Bowl appearance.  Go Panthers!!!

Thanks for posting this. You conveyed my reasons why I consider Newton as a mediocre quarterback. Overall he is a good football player that just is inaccurate when throwing a pass, especially one over 20 yards. I am so happy that he has a dream team that can win games despite. As you said, it was a great quarter at the end when playing Seattle, but he sure didn't impress the first two quarters. Consistency is important for a great quarterback. I though that Dehlomme (forgive the spelling) was a much better quarterback and could throw that miracle  hell Mary when needed. He had a bad year and was trashed.  I hope that Newton at least stays at the level where he currently stands and doesn't degrade. Even the announcer on the T.V. during the game mentioned his inaccuracy.  I regret that some can't accept reality. I am very proud of the Panthers but in all honesty, I believe we need a more accurate/reliable quarterback to have a chance at the Super Bowl. I would love to be wrong.

[HopHead]

I have no problem with someone saying Cam Newton has his flaws as a QB... He certainly does (like accuracy). However, he does so many things that don't show up on a stat sheet that most if not all QBs in the league can't do. To say the Panthers would need a more accurate/reliable QB to have a chance at the Super Bowl is one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard in a while. Without Cam, they aren't 6-0 right now. Not a chance.

[nonillogical]

Even the announcer on the T.V. during the game mentioned his inaccuracy.  I regret that some can't accept reality.

That really is cherry picking. Those same announcers during the game last night had WAY more positive than negative things to say about Cam, and it wasn't just about his running, it was his passing too. A lot of admiration in their voices for how he's improved his quick throws and has so much leverage and power in his arm that his foot placement isn't as crucial as most other QBs. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by nonillogical