SouthPark Mall

[Temeteron]

3 hours ago, Rufus said:

It's either BOSS or TravisMathew, both of which I haven't heard of struggling lately...but, I wonder if one of them is moving to the VINCE space just two stores down since they are apparently moving. I would say BOSS would be the one moving, but I don't have any insider knowledge to confirm. 

I have a feeling they may be making way for a big store (Zara) perhaps

[Rufus]

16 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

I have a feeling they may be making way for a big store (Zara) perhaps

Ok, so let's assume that is the case, and someone in the know can feel free correct me (I have no long tried to think how ZARA will fit in here, so this is a nerdy hobby), here's how this plays out: 

1. Vince moves to its space near Belk

2. Lacoste moves towards Belk and expands. 

3. Hugo Boss leaves its space for Chanel to come in. 

4. Boss moves to the old Brahmin spot next to the remodeled LV 

5. Zara finally comes in and takes the combined Arhaus and Vince spaces -- this assumes Arhaus leaves the mall, which is totally reasonable. This space is also much smaller than H&M, but larger than Aritzia. 

** There is also the space in the Dillards wing that is currently occupied by LV during their remodel, but that could be where Arhaus goes. 

[Temeteron]

22 hours ago, Rufus said:

Ok, so let's assume that is the case, and someone in the know can feel free correct me (I have no long tried to think how ZARA will fit in here, so this is a nerdy hobby), here's how this plays out: 

1. Vince moves to its space near Belk

2. Lacoste moves towards Belk and expands. 

3. Hugo Boss leaves its space for Chanel to come in. 

4. Boss moves to the old Brahmin spot next to the remodeled LV 

5. Zara finally comes in and takes the combined Arhaus and Vince spaces -- this assumes Arhaus leaves the mall, which is totally reasonable. This space is also much smaller than H&M, but larger than Aritzia. 

** There is also the space in the Dillards wing that is currently occupied by LV during their remodel, but that could be where Arhaus goes. 

Actually the old Brahmin has been gobbled up by Louis Vuitton. 

[Rufus]

51 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

Actually the old Brahmin has been gobbled up by Louis Vuitton. 

Good catch -- so maybe they move to the old Lacoste space. Similarly sized to their current space, and next to a complimentary retailer in Tommy John 

[Temeteron]

16 minutes ago, Rufus said:

Good catch -- so maybe they move to the old Lacoste space. Similarly sized to their current space, and next to a complimentary retailer in Tommy John 

Also, Swarovski is still in its temporary spot. Not sure where they will be relocating but staff has said they will be relocating eventually. 

[TheOneRJ]

Chanel is opening in the current BOSS location.

Edited December 8, 2023 by TheOneRJ

[Temeteron]

31 minutes ago, TheOneRJ said:

Chanel is opening in the current BOSS location.

Super small and low ceilings. I think this might be just cosmetics and not so much apparel

[nakers2]

Can we start talking for real about South Park getting an expansion? The waitlist for retailers seems to indicate it could support twice the square footage. I know that's unrealistic, but I see so many places here doing active expansions/remodels while remaining open (the airport being a great example) how hard would it really be to add a level and/or consume some of the surface lots?

[Temeteron]

22 minutes ago, nakers2 said:

Can we start talking for real about South Park getting an expansion? The waitlist for retailers seems to indicate it could support twice the square footage. I know that's unrealistic, but I see so many places here doing active expansions/remodels while remaining open (the airport being a great example) how hard would it really be to add a level and/or consume some of the surface lots?

Besides stores, I think SouthPark needs more and better restaurants.  The food court and the others are just not that appealing.  

[TheOneRJ]

1 hour ago, nakers2 said:

Can we start talking for real about South Park getting an expansion? The waitlist for retailers seems to indicate it could support twice the square footage. I know that's unrealistic, but I see so many places here doing active expansions/remodels while remaining open (the airport being a great example) how hard would it really be to add a level and/or consume some of the surface lots?

If an expansion happens, it will be the redevelopment of an existing anchor store rather than adding a second level to the mall. The only area of the mall built to add another level is Neiman Marcus. I don’t think there is any examples of a mall anywhere in the country adding an entirely new level to the existing mall.

[LKN704]

16 hours ago, TheOneRJ said:

If an expansion happens, it will be the redevelopment of an existing anchor store rather than adding a second level to the mall. The only area of the mall built to add another level is Neiman Marcus. I don’t think there is any examples of a mall anywhere in the country adding an entirely new level to the existing mall.

I thought the Nordstrom was also designed to also support a theoretical third level. 

[Temeteron]

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

I thought the Nordstrom was also designed to also support a theoretical third level. 

The men’s dept has gotten really terrible at Nordstrom SouthPark. It seems like a Nordstrom rack now.  Very sad compared to Atlanta or Chicago locations.  Limited brands and limited selections.  And the sales reps have no knowledge of fashion whatsoever 

[KJHburg]

20 hours ago, TheOneRJ said:

If an expansion happens, it will be the redevelopment of an existing anchor store rather than adding a second level to the mall. The only area of the mall built to add another level is Neiman Marcus. I don’t think there is any examples of a mall anywhere in the country adding an entirely new level to the existing mall.

Yes there is but it was years ago.  Tysons Corner the creme de creme of malls of metro DC added a level  underneath where service areas used to be in the 1990s and doubled the space.    It made this 1 level mall a 2 level mall. This wont happen at Southpark but I can see an anchor shrinking or even leaving and the mall small shop space expanded.   What is the status of our so called Macys anchor there?  

Edited December 9, 2023 by KJHburg

[tozmervo]

22 hours ago, Temeteron said:

The men’s dept has gotten really terrible at Nordstrom SouthPark. 

Men's departments have gotten terrible everywhere, or have become totally non-existent. For all the great improvements at Birkdale, there is now literally only one single store there that carries Men's clothing: Jos A Bank. Even the American Eagle there doesn't stock men's clothing.

[CLT2014]

On 12/9/2023 at 4:30 PM, KJHburg said:

Yes there is but it was years ago.  Tysons Corner the creme de creme of malls of metro DC added a level  underneath where service areas used to be in the 1990s and doubled the space.    It made this 1 level mall a 2 level mall. This wont happen at Southpark but I can see an anchor shrinking or even leaving and the mall small shop space expanded.   What is the status of our so called Macys anchor there?  

Macy's may get taken over by private equity soon and the outside investors want the company for its real estate. Macy's owns their SouthPark store and I wouldn't be surprised to see it sold in the transition to private equity. 

https://www.axios.com/2023/12/11/macys-takeover-offer
https://www.wsj.com/business/deals/investor-group-launches-5-8-billion-buyout-bid-for-macys-441ca24a
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/11/macys-receives-5point8-billion-buyout-offer-sources-say.html

[InSouthPark]

Lets get Simon to buy and tear down that dumpy Double Tree and build a mixed use retail with hotel on top.  We had to pick up a rental car there a few weeks ago and it...has not aged well.  There wasn't a single person at the hotel bar at 6:30pm during the week. I guessing there were hardly anyone actually staying there.  At 6.5 acres, they can make something similar to the Villages at Southpark (which is 5.5acres) for retail and whatever on top (plus another store like Crate and Barrel). 

[LKN704]

On 12/10/2023 at 12:35 PM, tozmervo said:

Men's departments have gotten terrible everywhere, or have become totally non-existent. For all the great improvements at Birkdale, there is now literally only one single store there that carries Men's clothing: Jos A Bank. Even the American Eagle there doesn't stock men's clothing.

I get this is the SP thread, but I truly do not understand this. I went there with my mother over Thanksgiving and was shocked at this, especially considering the wealth that is concentrated around Huntersville/Davidson/Cornelius/Lake Norman. 

We've discussed on this thread that fashion in Charlotte still largely exudes conservative,  bank town vibes (Vineyard Vines Polo with Boat Shoes for men, Lily Pulitzer or Christian Girl Autumn dress for women). I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with those outfits and if you think you look good in it - you should wear it. It's just somewhat odd given that Charlotte isn't some small city but rather the 19th largest CSA in the country. 

Lily Pulitzer isn't necessarily cheap - dresses go up $400. Anthro isn't necessarily cheap, either. So clearly there is middle to upper class demographic in the area that the stores cater to. 

Where are men in that area getting their clothes? Where are teenage boys getting their clothes? Are they driving down to SouthPark? Are their wives/mothers  just shopping off the rack for them at the Belk in Mooresville? 

Edited December 11, 2023 by LKN704

[CLT2014]

On 12/10/2023 at 12:35 PM, tozmervo said:

Men's departments have gotten terrible everywhere, or have become totally non-existent. For all the great improvements at Birkdale, there is now literally only one single store there that carries Men's clothing: Jos A Bank. Even the American Eagle there doesn't stock men's clothing.

The other shop the men get their clothing at at Birkdale. 

Even to work Uptown, things have increasingly shifted away from suits to dressing like this mannequin if you work in technology, marketing, digital, et. People came back from the pandemic and brought casual style with them + as technology has a greater role in the headcount at the banks, the fashion is shifting more casual as engineers, product owners,  marketers, et. are like "nah, I'm wearing a t-shirt." It is a shocking contrast from prior to the pandemic where it was rare to not see a man without a collared shirt in a lunch line Uptown. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by CLT2014

[videtur quam contuor]

I have bought more items at Zara, NYC and Montréal, than any local existing store in the past year. 

Who is the favorite mens clothier in Charlotte for our members here on UP?

[Rufus]

While I don't live in Charlotte anymore, I know these stores have locations in the city, and I frequent them online and here in NYC: Bonobos and Marine Layer 

[nakers2]

Haven't seen it mentioned here, but there's a MASSIVE new distribution center in/near China Grove right off i-85, the signage on the outside? Macy's-Bloomingdales. I find it very hard to believe that they would not only build a Macy's distribution center, but at the same time put the Bloomingdale's brand, a brand largely unfamiliar in this region, on the exterior. As someone who works in logistics it would make very little sense for them to build to this scale if there were not plans in place to expand Macy's footprint, and create a footprint for Bloomingdale's in the region, and Southpark seems like the first logical contender for a location. 

[LKN704]

4 hours ago, videtur quam contuor said:

I have bought more items at Zara, NYC and Montréal, than any local existing store in the past year. 

Who is the favorite mens clothier in Charlotte for our members here on UP?

I browse Tabor when I visit CLT. I like to look at the art gallery, and once upon a time they had pieces from my two favorite designers (Universal Works and Folk - both UK brands and very hard to find in the U.S.) but I don't believe they stock them anymore. They have a nice selection of Aesop products. 

I didn't know the Madewell store in Atherton Mill had men's clothes.  I don't really like Madewell Men - I find it extremely expensive for what it is and I tend to find their stuff too fitted. They just opened up a Men's exclusive store down the block from me in DC and I bought a really nice pair of cream colored baggy wide-fit painters pants there.  Most of my pants I wear on the regular are from Dickies or Grammici but neither really carry that color so I was excited to see it...I've worn them four times this week. I also bought these two relaxed loose-fitting sweaters on sale. I had no idea they had such a wide selection of relaxed clothing for men. I'd be interested to see what their men's collection in Charlotte looks like. 

Not Charlotte, but you can find stuff in style now for nothing at the Value Village in Mooresville. It's the best thrift in the area. I got a vintage Carhartt Detroit Jacket for just $15 last winter there - the same jacket regularly goes for $100 on vintage clothing websites.

Edited December 12, 2023 by LKN704

[KJHburg]

10 hours ago, nakers2 said:

Haven't seen it mentioned here, but there's a MASSIVE new distribution center in/near China Grove right off i-85, the signage on the outside? Macy's-Bloomingdales. I find it very hard to believe that they would not only build a Macy's distribution center, but at the same time put the Bloomingdale's brand, a brand largely unfamiliar in this region, on the exterior. As someone who works in logistics it would make very little sense for them to build to this scale if there were not plans in place to expand Macy's footprint, and create a footprint for Bloomingdale's in the region, and Southpark seems like the first logical contender for a location. 

that is their online purchase distribution center for much of the southeast and midatlantic and beyond.  I too have driven past it and thought we finally have a Bloomingdales in NC just not open to the public unless you use their website.  

[kayman]

On 12/9/2023 at 4:30 PM, KJHburg said:

Yes there is but it was years ago.  Tysons Corner the creme de creme of malls of metro DC added a level  underneath where service areas used to be in the 1990s and doubled the space.    It made this 1 level mall a 2 level mall. This wont happen at Southpark but I can see an anchor shrinking or even leaving and the mall small shop space expanded.   What is the status of our so called Macys anchor there?  

Anything is possible in the world of commercial real estate these days. I have done the development side on and off over the past 15 years, and if Simon Properties wants to two-level the entirety of SouthPark then they will.  I've worked with them on several redevelopments of their existing properties in other states, so they have the ability and know-how to execute it.   I was directly involved in regulatory permitting to allow their complete reconstruction of the Phipps Plaza property in Atlanta to what you see now, and it was massive, but the mall remained open through the entire 7-year multi-phase project to what you see today.

The limitation on the ability to expand the SouthPark MSD (aka Business Improvement District/BID) will likely yield vertical redevelopment, i.e., a full second level along with high rises on the existing site footprint at some point in the future.  The likely redevelopment by Simon will have SouthPark looking like a hybrid of its Atlanta sister properties Phipps Plaza and Lenox Square combined with a Bloomingdale's presence.  The SouthPark MSD is long overdue for the retail presence of retailers like urban-format Target, upscale lifestyle gyms like Lifetime Fitness, Equinox, Barry's Bootcamp, etc. as well as upscale big box like Von Maur along with Bloomingdale's and Saks Fifth Avenue.  (Yeah, I do know the history of the cancelled Saks location at SouthPark but it is long overdue.)  A couple of mixed-use high rises that consist of residential, office, and upscale hotel rooms need to be constructed and overdue.

Edited December 13, 2023 by kayman

[rancenc]

I wonder if this news could damper expectations of new luxury retailers coming to the Charlotte market!

https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/luxury-slowdown-prompts-fears-inventory-pile-up-over-key-holiday-season-2023-12-13/