Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[codypet]

I just realized that Lymmo moved their Orange/Central stop to right in front of this location.  I wonder why they did that.

[dcluley98]

I agree it is coming back with Vanguard (Firestone) and Ace being two of the top players helping to bring it back. I went to the CloZee show at the Plaza a couple of months ago as well, which isn't really downtown, but often has bigger name shows. 

I don't do EDC as I'm too old for that scene these days, but I know it's a pretty big deal when it is in town. 

Agree about the restaurants as well. There are a couple higher end restaurants around church street, but not that many.  I think there could be more as more shows come to the DPAC and drive higher demand for that around the DPAC / Amway center events. 

[jliv]

In the late 90's to the 2000's, Orlando was actually a nationally recognized "scene" for music, dance clubs and the electronic music scene.  
It wasn't necessarily "Bars" but more about music and dance. (well there were the drugs too behind the scenes, but it wasn't the focus). It was more about going to see the best artists in the world and having a great time and dancing and spending money to go shows and make it an experience. 
I may be nostalgic a bit here, but that was a different vibe and scene to what is going on now, and it made Orlando a place to come to in order to see the best music and artists. 
 
I guess I'm old. 

I have to agree with you on the vibe. It all went pear-shaped when they opened Baja Beach Club!


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[Alleri459]

On 2/15/2022 at 9:05 AM, bqknight said:

I agree with pretty much what everyone is saying about Downtown, in the sense that a good bar/club scene is necessary, but especially as we've come out of the pandemic (well, kinda...), the crowd downtown and some of the bars downtown make it feel a little...trashy/unsafe/etc. 

HOWEVER...there have been some positive improvements that are slowly taking shape (IMO). Orlando is once again becoming quite a large player in the EDM space, thanks to Insomniac. Orlando has become it's defacto East Coast hub with EDC and the purchase of Vanguard. We now get top-tier talent almost every weekend, and it extends beyond Vanguard to places like Celine. 

TMG continues to snatch up places and turn them into various concepts, pretty much all which have been good. I enjoy McQueens (whose owner also owns Bullit and Crow, among others). 

I do think what is missing is top-tier restaurants. There just aren't many good options at all downtown. Add in some of those, that also have good happy hour/bar scenes and I think we'd be golden. 

Through the pandemic, we saw a lop-sided crowd. Mainly people not necessarily exercising caution, the rest just stayed home.  I may be over generalizing, but it certainly was my experience the few times I ventured to the area in the last two years. I will say there has been improvement as society is slowly coming back to normal. 

Insomniac and TMG have transformed many spaces downtown for the better. I have attended some shows from both groups and WOW! These groups have deep pockets pulling in world-renowned figures in the electronic music scene. I noticed improvements in sound systems, service, etc between pre-covid to now, and these shows are not cheap either.

There is plenty to work on though.  I really do believe the City and OPD closing off the streets really encourages sloppy behavior.  I'm all for slow streets/pedestrian only/Ciclovias etc, but maybe not so much for the collective rowdiness. I would rather see one lane closed with those metal crowd barriers on each side preventing the street from being closed and having officers crowd-controlling crosswalks instead until maybe a change in habits happens.  Many bars and establishments have closed and continue to close though. So even though we think nothing is changing, it is still evolving and transitioning.

*Side note- This may sound weird to some,  but I believe closing by two and rushing everyone out at that time doesn't help.  I really think it pushes a mentality of "I need to get as many drinks in as I can!" and all patrons are pushed out drunk in a very crowded street at the same time not knowing how to act. Having gone to other cities (domestic and international) that have bars closing around 4am-5am and beyond, people leave whenever they've had enough. The crowd peaks at around 2:30-3:30 and it tapers off after. It goes back to previous comments where Orlando feels bigger than it is, and it reflects in the behavior. People are expecting big city nightlife (even these prominent DJs performing in venues), within what feel like a college town bar crawl. Many patrons and performers I've seen want to stay out later or wait until they feel better to drive, but when the police is pushing everyone to leave bars and empty the streets it is creating a bit of chaos. I am curious to see what others think regarding this.

[dcluley98]

So what you are talking about is the same as 20 years ago with the "Rave Laws" fight.  Basically, in the late 90s/early 2000s, the same arguments were occuring with the closing times and juxtaposition of EDM/Entertainment vs. debauchery/drugs/drunkeness.  

The pearl clutchers ran a campaign against ALL late night entertainment and especially electronic music with making "Club Drugs" such as MDMA an excuse to pass laws that didn't really make much sense in the real world.  

It is fairly similar, 20-25 years later. 

Google "Rave Laws" or "Rave Ordinance" along with "Orlando" or "Gainesville" and you will see some of the history and politics behind this. Not that I agree or disagree with either side. . .  I did my fair share of partying and debauchery back then and am also aware of the problems with things if done irresponsibly and the way the laws are now. 

It's probably a lot easier and safer to accomplish this with Uber and Mass Transit and not catering to a 2 AM alcohol culture than what was there before. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by dcluley98

[FLClarkKent]

Great new developments in the downtown food scene - from our friends at Bungalower and the Weekly. The development in the former Subway at the Anglebilt sounds especially cool.

https://bungalower.com/2022/02/28/local-mixologist-opening-new-bar-in-historic-downtown-hotel/

 

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/downtown-orlandos-taco-kat-will-serve-sonoran-style-tacos-and-tequila-from-the-old-cleos-lounge-space/Content?oid=31099387&utm_source=featurefollow&utm_medium=home&utm_campaign=hpfeatures&utm_content=HomeTopFeature

 

https://bungalower.com/2022/02/28/new-restaurant-now-open-in-downtown-orlando/

[JFW657]

6 minutes ago, FLClarkKent said:

Great new developments in the downtown food scene - from our friends at Bungalower and the Weekly. The development in the former Subway at the Anglebilt sounds especially cool.

Another bar is just what DTO needs!!!!  

[HankStrong]

Especially one with overpriced hipster drinks that take 20x longer to make.  Not to mention that they almost completely consist of taking a normal drink, adding  flavored bitters to it, and using a mortar/pestle on a herb.  It's like all those random unused mortar/pestles handed out as wedding gifts just needed a home.

 

 

That said, Mrs. Strong does bust out the m/p on occasion at the house for her homemade guacamole & her chimichurri.

[klstorey]

I gotta disagree here. While I'm not a fan of the downtown bar scene and will likely not ever visit this spot, I do appreciate the uniqueness it offers. It seems to lean heavily on the history of the location. I hope the Angebilt will eventually get its great rooftop sign replaced. It could really add a nice pop of neon to the skyline. 
This also seems to be less of a party place than what downtown has seen. I think a few after work drinking spots would be nice. I used to work out of the coworking space in the Angebilt and honestly there's not that many clean places downtown to grab a drink with a coworker unless you want loud DJs and shots. 
Also, FWIW, I was on Church Street Friday night (for Whiskey Business). There's still noticeably fewer partygoers out in Orlando on a Friday night than a few years ago. With so many spots on Church and Orange still vacant, I guess it shouldn't come as much of a surprise but even at 10 PM the sidewalks were walkable, which on a Friday night a few years back wouldn't have been the case. 

[AmIReal]

On 3/1/2022 at 12:16 PM, FLClarkKent said:

Great new developments in the downtown food scene - from our friends at Bungalower and the Weekly. The development in the former Subway at the Anglebilt sounds especially cool.

https://bungalower.com/2022/02/28/local-mixologist-opening-new-bar-in-historic-downtown-hotel/

 

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/downtown-orlandos-taco-kat-will-serve-sonoran-style-tacos-and-tequila-from-the-old-cleos-lounge-space/Content?oid=31099387&utm_source=featurefollow&utm_medium=home&utm_campaign=hpfeatures&utm_content=HomeTopFeature

 

https://bungalower.com/2022/02/28/new-restaurant-now-open-in-downtown-orlando/

Hopefully these will stick around- I see Thrive on Orange is already papered over. That Taco Kat place is another project from the TMG group- those guys are killing it and are really changing the face of the local bar scene (for the most part for the better) Btw, they are also the group behind the bowling alley project that was mentioned over in the Milk District.

On top of these projects, I hear Debonair Supper Club in the old Cheela location is expected by fall and they are actually working inside the Bumby food hall project, so maybe it is soon forthcoming.

On 3/1/2022 at 2:54 PM, HankStrong said:

Especially one with overpriced hipster drinks that take 20x longer to make.  Not to mention that they almost completely consist of taking a normal drink, adding  flavored bitters to it, and using a mortar/pestle on a herb.  It's like all those random unused mortar/pestles handed out as wedding gifts just needed a home.

I don't think we hang out in the same places...

[HankStrong]

15 hours ago, AmIReal said:

I don't think we hang out in the same places...

I don't tend to hang out in these places either, but I certainly have been to several of them over the years with friends.  "Oh you just have to try out MCGOOFY'S HIPSTER DIVE BAR SPEAKEASY LOUNGE THROWBACK because it's the new number one place in town!  They have all the best drinks!" 

You pay $30 (plus tip!) for a drink that takes 20 minutes to get to you.  It isn't actually better than your normal drink and it isn't quite your normal drink.  It's your drink with bitters!  It's your drink with mulled fresh mint or thyme or the leaves from a rare flowering plant in the Himalayas!  

It's not that I don't appreciate the craftsperson-ship of the artful drink, but that scene isn't for me.

[orlandocity87]

16 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Hopefully these will stick around- I see Thrive on Orange is already papered over.

Coincidentally, I wanted to try Thrive for the first time this week for lunch and saw it was papered over. The note said "Routine Maintenance – Closed 2/28 & 3/1" so hopefully they're back.

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

It's not that I don't appreciate the craftsperson-ship of the artful drink, but that scene isn't for me.

It really sounds like you don't.

[HankStrong]

1 hour ago, orlandocity87 said:

It really sounds like you don't.

I appreciate that it is a craft and it requires skill, I don't need to experience it myself.

Much like calligraphy.  Boy is that a talent and it sure is flowery and purty.  But if I never have a single thing done in calligraphy for the rest of my life, I'll be A-OK!

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I don't tend to hang out in these places either, but I certainly have been to several of them over the years with friends.  "Oh you just have to try out MCGOOFY'S HIPSTER DIVE BAR SPEAKEASY LOUNGE THROWBACK because it's the new number one place in town!  They have all the best drinks!" 

You pay $30 (plus tip!) for a drink that takes 20 minutes to get to you.  It isn't actually better than your normal drink and it isn't quite your normal drink.  It's your drink with bitters!  It's your drink with mulled fresh mint or thyme or the leaves from a rare flowering plant in the Himalayas!  

It's not that I don't appreciate the craftsperson-ship of the artful drink, but that scene isn't for me.

Your skewering of hipster sheeple with their fashionable trend mongering mentality is spot on.  

 

All that is needed after that is to brush them down with a nice honey chipotle pineapple ginger garlic arugula turmeric glaze and continue slow roasting.  

[JFW657]

7 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

I appreciate that it is a craft and it requires skill, I don't need to experience it myself.

Much like calligraphy.  Boy is that a talent and it sure is flowery and purty.  But if I never have a single thing done in calligraphy for the rest of my life, I'll be A-OK!

 

 

[dcluley98]

Have to admit, Slider & Aperol Dungeon sounds kinda hot. 

Would have to try it out once. 

[HankStrong]

50 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Your skewering of hipster sheeple with their fashionable trend mongering mentality is spot on.  

 

All that is needed after that is to brush them down with a nice honey chipotle pineapple ginger garlic arugula turmeric glaze and continue slow roasting.  

I have saved this.

[spenser1058]

For what it’s worth, newly resurgent Daytona Beach has just rolled back its longtime 3am bar closing time to 2am as they fight many of the same issues on the Seabreeze corridor that Orlando is struggling with in the downtown core.

[AmIReal]

14 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I don't tend to hang out in these places either, but I certainly have been to several of them over the years with friends.  "Oh you just have to try out MCGOOFY'S HIPSTER DIVE BAR SPEAKEASY LOUNGE THROWBACK because it's the new number one place in town!  They have all the best drinks!" 

You pay $30 (plus tip!) for a drink that takes 20 minutes to get to you.  It isn't actually better than your normal drink and it isn't quite your normal drink.  It's your drink with bitters!  It's your drink with mulled fresh mint or thyme or the leaves from a rare flowering plant in the Himalayas!  

It's not that I don't appreciate the craftsperson-ship of the artful drink, but that scene isn't for me.

Some people like Papa John's Pizza, some prefer something like Antica, Bruno or Prato. The same could be said for Olive Garden vs Cristinis or Long Horn vs Bull and Bear... If you just ignore the quality of ingredients, preparation, skill, and presentation then there's basically no difference.  Those are just pizza, Italian food and Steakhouses, right?

And if you're paying $30 for a cocktail, you're not in a hipster joint, you're at the Four Seasons or Waldorf, which is decidedly not hipster.

[HankStrong]

Good to see you're still living the dream Reality! 

Viva las downtown hipster bars!  At the end of the day, business downtown is a good thing.  Even if I don't want to go to those places.  Have an extra drink for me while you're there.

[AndyPok1]

Yeah I tend to go to those places while travelling or for happy hour or once a year just to try them out.  Not my scene.  I'm happy at Caseys and Fuel and Stagger.

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, AndyPok1 said:

Yeah I tend to go to those places while travelling or for happy hour or once a year just to try them out.  Not my scene.  I'm happy at Caseys and Fuel and Stagger.

I just follow the trashy folk with a sense of old Orlando to Burton’s…

[AmIReal]

9 hours ago, HankStrong said:

Good to see you're still living the dream Reality! 

Viva las downtown hipster bars!  At the end of the day, business downtown is a good thing.  Even if I don't want to go to those places.  Have an extra drink for me while you're there.

Btw, the best cocktails are not in downtown, but in the Mills District. 

[AndyPok1]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

I just follow the trashy folk with a sense of old Orlando to Burton’s…

I end up at Burton's more often than I should.  I largely love it, but the staff post-covid has left me wanting.  I was there 3 times in 8 days and tipped very large... and I still would be waiting 5+ minutes to get a bartender to remotely pay attention to me.

48 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Btw, the best cocktails are not in downtown, but in the Mills District. 

I'd agree with this sentiment.  Lil Indies is where I take out of towners.

[codypet]

On 3/4/2022 at 5:53 PM, AndyPok1 said:

I end up at Burton's more often than I should.  I largely love it, but the staff post-covid has left me wanting.  I was there 3 times in 8 days and tipped very large... and I still would be waiting 5+ minutes to get a bartender to remotely pay attention to me.

I ended up meeting some cute girl there, but didn't get her number and am regretting it.  I so miss the day when Morgan was bartending Burtons.