Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[jrs2]

6 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Of course, it’s somewhat moot - Craig hasn’t had an, ummm, creative thought since he and Phil parted ways. He’s just a full-fledged suit now. Of course, that’s what we prefer in Orlando so it was probably a good idea for him.

tilt-wall and paint...works for me!

[popsiclebrandon]

This is sooooooo messy. Super embarrassing all around.

https://bungalower.com/2022/04/04/city-district-main-street-will-change-its-name-and-is-hiring-a-new-director/

[JFW657]

Tempest in a tea pot?

Much ado about not much?   

Inside baseball?

[spenser1058]

I’m more concerned about the administrator putting out info about a dismissal in such a cavalier fashion. She’s just begging for the city to get hit with a lawsuit on that. Does she know anything about standard HR practice these days?

[popsiclebrandon]

18 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Tempest in a tea pot?

Much ado about not much?   

Inside baseball?

In the bigger picture its nothing but putting out statements like that in direct conflict with everything else is so bizarre. I'm not surprised though. Still less of a mess than TP District and the shenanigans she pulls all the time to personally benefit. Just a waste of a potentially good program and insane to me she keeps her job.

[jack]

1 hour ago, popsiclebrandon said:

In the bigger picture its nothing but putting out statements like that in direct conflict with everything else is so bizarre. I'm not surprised though. Still less of a mess than TP District and the shenanigans she pulls all the time to personally benefit. Just a waste of a potentially good program and insane to me she keeps her job.

The TP head is pretty well connected. 

[popsiclebrandon]

1 hour ago, jack said:

The TP head is pretty well connected. 

Yeah that was made very clear to me that she is basically untouchable, hence her being how she is.

[spenser1058]

On 4/5/2022 at 3:22 PM, popsiclebrandon said:

Yeah that was made very clear to me that she is basically untouchable, hence her being how she is.

Downtown has another mess to clean up even more quickly than we thought. Mad Cow just lost a good chunk of its board which could affect state grants.

Maybe when Terror on Church St closed it left poltergeists, ghosts and spirits tearing up the works…

Mad Cow Theatre leaders quit: ‘It’s a mess’
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/arts-and-theater/os-et-mad-cow-theatre-board-leader-quits-20220407-qprtveansfggffxdccp6svgq4a-story.html

From Matt Palm at The Sentinel

(Btw, if you’re keeping track at home, Matt’s another of my heroes along with Joy Wallace Dickinson )

Edited April 6, 2022 by spenser1058

[AmIReal]

Downtown apartment buildings that have sold in the past 6 months: Skyhouse, 55W, The Jullian, Modera Central, Lake House. 

$650M in transactions since Oct.

Somebody thinks downtown Orlando is a good investment.

"Downtown properties are renting for almost $200 more a month than in the market at large, she said. Plus, 4- and 5-star communities downtown are renting for an average of nearly $2,100 a month. In addition, the average vacancy rate is falling at a faster pace than in the overall market — and rent has grown 15.4% over the last year, "with room to push it higher.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/04/07/skyhouses-sale-price-latest-in-downtown-wave.html

 

[spenser1058]

19 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Downtown apartment buildings that have sold in the past 6 months: Skyhouse, 55W, The Jullian, Modera Central, Lake House. 

$650M in transactions since Oct.

Somebody thinks downtown Orlando is a good investment.

"Downtown properties are renting for almost $200 more a month than in the market at large, she said. Plus, 4- and 5-star communities downtown are renting for an average of nearly $2,100 a month. In addition, the average vacancy rate is falling at a faster pace than in the overall market — and rent has grown 15.4% over the last year, "with room to push it higher.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/04/07/skyhouses-sale-price-latest-in-downtown-wave.html

 

It’s great for landlords in the short-term but, if they’re all turning over after a year or two and they aren’t diversifying the age cohort, over time it tends to be unsustainable. (55W, anyone?) 

We’ve seen challenges like that before. It’s hard to believe but in the 1970’s  in Rosemont and in the 1980’s in MetroWest, the apartment clusters in both were considered upscale and uber-successful. Neither stayed that way. UCF/Alafaya has many of those same issues today.

Diversify or die. Of course, out of town developers and property managers don’t much care what happens over a decade. By then, they’ll be long gone and leave the community with the mess. That’s not their problem, they’ll be happy to tell you.

Edited April 8, 2022 by spenser1058

[bqknight]

I don't know if some places are holding units or are short-term leasing/renting them, but availability around the Downtown core is low. Been looking around since I've been pretty displeased with Camden Thornton Park, but most places have little to no 2 bedrooms available and the ones that are, are just way too expensive. 

[jack]

13 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Downtown apartment buildings that have sold in the past 6 months: Skyhouse, 55W, The Jullian, Modera Central, Lake House. 

$650M in transactions since Oct.

Somebody thinks downtown Orlando is a good investment.

"Downtown properties are renting for almost $200 more a month than in the market at large, she said. Plus, 4- and 5-star communities downtown are renting for an average of nearly $2,100 a month. In addition, the average vacancy rate is falling at a faster pace than in the overall market — and rent has grown 15.4% over the last year, "with room to push it higher.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/04/07/skyhouses-sale-price-latest-in-downtown-wave.html

 

To be fair, downtowns across the country hallowed out during covid. They have rebounded which gives them some of the best changes in regards to rent growth and occupancies. 

[jack]

1 hour ago, bqknight said:

I don't know if some places are holding units or are short-term leasing/renting them, but availability around the Downtown core is low. Been looking around since I've been pretty displeased with Camden Thornton Park, but most places have little to no 2 bedrooms available and the ones that are, are just way too expensive. 

Demand is sky high across the entire market. All of our assets get leased as soon as it's available. You see lease ups in suburban markets getting 60 units leased per month. 

We need to be building a lot more to keep up. Unfortunately, costs across the board are getting higher and higher every month. And our transportation infrastructure is having an hard time keeping up. 

14 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

It’s great for landlords in the short-term but, if they’re all turning over after a year or two and they aren’t diversifying the age cohort, over time it tends to be unsustainable. (55W, anyone?) 

We’ve seen challenges like that before. It’s hard to believe but in the 1970’s  in Rosemont and in the 1980’s in MetroWest, the apartment clusters in both were considered upscale and uber-successful. Neither stayed that way. UCF/Alafaya has many of those same issues today.

Diversify or die. Of course, out of town developers and property managers don’t much care what happens over a decade. By then, they’ll be long gone and leave the community with the mess. That’s not their problem, they’ll be happy to tell you.

Urban areas always have higher turnover compared to suburban markets. We are not unique. 

Downtown Orlando with all of its problems and metro west are not the same. 

[spenser1058]

Good Lord, even the bar owners admit it but Buddy and his apologists insist everything’s Practically Perfect In Every Way Downtown:

‘The Courtesy’s announced move comes just after longtime nightclub Barbarella closed in advance of a relocation in the area of the upcoming Packing District. What’s going on downtown? Maybe there’s something in a quote that Diana Zimmerman, who owns the Courtesy with her husband, Gene, gave to Bungalower’s Brendan O’Connor: “(I)t’s not the same downtown as when we opened. A lot of our core guests tell us they’re not comfortable coming downtown anymore.”

That should send a shiver through the Downtown Development Board’s office at City Hall.’

From Scott Joseph’s Flog, April 15, 2022

Buddy’s re-election motto: “What, Me Worry?” Alfred E. Neuman is alive and well at City Commons…

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Good Lord, even the bar owners admit it but Buddy and his apologists insist everything’s Practically Perfect In Every Way Downtown:

‘The Courtesy’s announced move comes just after longtime nightclub Barbarella closed in advance of a relocation in the area of the upcoming Packing District. What’s going on downtown? Maybe there’s something in a quote that Diana Zimmerman, who owns the Courtesy with her husband, Gene, gave to Bungalower’s Brendan O’Connor: “(I)t’s not the same downtown as when we opened. A lot of our core guests tell us they’re not comfortable coming downtown anymore.”

That should send a shiver through the Downtown Development Board’s office at City Hall.’

From Scott Joseph’s Flog, April 15, 2022

Buddy’s re-election motto: “What, Me Worry?” Alfred E. Neuman is alive and well at City Commons…

Or maybe it has nothing whatsoever to do with Buddy Dyer and all this inside baseball minutiae re: leadership style, but simply the rash of shootings and violence that is being attracted, because of the kind of entertainment the clubs tend to offer.  

[codypet]

Yea all the people I usually hang with (which are admittedly approaching 40) won't go downtown anymore post Covid, favoring Thronton, the Milk or more commonly Ivanhoe.  

Even when I was still doing pickups downtown in late 2020, the bar scene wasn't what it was.  With Ibar, Joysticks, Finns, now Courtesy gone, I wonder how long the Woods or Lodge stays open.  I see the Lodge surviving.  I dunno about Woods.

[orlandocity87]

Love The Courtesy, but two anecdotes from years of going there: Once, we tried to go for an after-work happy hour and the bar was dead silent because they were hosting a movie showing. The audience gave us dirty looks for whispering too loud so we left. Another time, this past NYE, we got fairly expensive tickets that included drinks and snacks from 8:00pm - 12:30am. The drinks and service were great, but some tables literally left by 11:00pm because the mood was so quiet and the DJ (who I usually love for art openings and similar events) only played loungy lo-fi beats without words. 

I mention all this because I think some concepts just don't work in a downtown's main party strip and that's OK--and doesn't necessarily mean downtown Orlando is doing anything wrong. Some bars are just better designed to be in the surrounding neighborhoods (as mentioned) or should close at midnight if they don't want to deal with partygoers. 

[bqknight]

9 hours ago, codypet said:

Yea all the people I usually hang with (which are admittedly approaching 40) won't go downtown anymore post Covid, favoring Thronton, the Milk or more commonly Ivanhoe.  

Even when I was still doing pickups downtown in late 2020, the bar scene wasn't what it was.  With Ibar, Joysticks, Finns, now Courtesy gone, I wonder how long the Woods or Lodge stays open.  I see the Lodge surviving.  I dunno about Woods.

Went to The Woods the other weekend around midnight and it was packed. Anyone hear anything new about Parlay (the place that's opening where Finnhenry's was)? Is being marketed as a more upscale sports bar. 

[codypet]

4 hours ago, orlandocity87 said:

I mention all this because I think some concepts just don't work in a downtown's main party strip and that's OK--and doesn't necessarily mean downtown Orlando is doing anything wrong. Some bars are just better designed to be in the surrounding neighborhoods

I think in the case of Courtesy, if it was on Pine near Robinson, or Hanson's it would have been better.   Unfortunately, it was next to Saddle Up.

[popsiclebrandon]

Downtown has basically become Ybor which has its appeals but for me personally there is nothing I'm interested in after 6PM.

[JFW657]

12 hours ago, codypet said:

I wonder how long the Woods or Lodge stays open.  I see the Lodge surviving.  I dunno about Woods.

The Lodge should be in the Woods where it belongs. 

2 hours ago, codypet said:

I think in the case of Courtesy, if it was on  Pine near Robinson, or Hanson's it would have been better.   Unfortunately, it was next to Saddle Up.

Curious as to how any given point on Pine can be any nearer or farther away from Robinson than any other given point on Pine.....  

.

Edited April 18, 2022 by JFW657

[AndyPok1]

6 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Curious as to how any given point on Pine can be any nearer or farther away from Robinson than any other given point on Pine.....  

There's a cocktail bar and coffee shop named Robinson on Pine

[JFW657]

11 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

There's a cocktail bar and coffee shop named Robinson on Pine

I figured as much.

But still, I can't really be expected to pass up such an opportunity, can I?   

[Jernigan]

Did they demo the 7-11 building on Rosalind today?

[spenser1058]

9 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

Did they demo the 7-11 building on Rosalind today?

Go, Buddy, Go!