Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[JFW657]

Personally, I don't really know if Orlando even needs a huge museum.

Besides, do you really need a large footprint to have a great art museum...?

And, how big do we expect OMA to get?

My main issue with the Lynx Central Station site is that it would be next door to a crappy apartment building and a bus station. The entire area just doesn't have the kind of artsy vibe one would want for a downtown art museum IMO.

The corner of Magnolia and Washington just seems to me, to create a better more intimate atmosphere for such a building.

Putting it on a tighter, denser site like that with tall buildings in such close proximity, I think, would create a much cooler, urban, heart of downtown street feel that you wouldn't get up on Orange in that big lot.

JMHO.

[smileguy]

I was going to pull out Charlotte's Mint Museum Uptown as an example of a good urban sunbelt museum. It has many of the things in dculey's description - co-location with a couple of other cultural institutions, and next to green space.  It was built along with a commercial tower, and I also just found out that when design happened pre-bubble, it was designed with a condo tower on top at the back of the building to help offset the cost. The tower wasn't built, but has been resurrected as an apartment project, currently u/c. Maybe a model we can use in Orlando?

Naked Mint

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mint with tower.

 

[smileguy]

14 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Personally, I don't really know if Orlando even needs a huge museum.

Besides, do you really need a large footprint to have a great art museum...?

And, how big do we expect OMA to get?

My main issue with the Lynx Central Station site is that it would be next door to a crappy apartment building and a bus station. The entire area just doesn't have the kind of artsy vibe one would want for a downtown art museum IMO.

The corner of Magnolia and Washington just seems to me, to create a better more intimate atmosphere for such a building.

Putting it on a tighter, denser site like that with tall buildings in such close proximity, I think, would create a much cooler, urban, heart of downtown street feel that you wouldn't get up on Orange in that big lot.

JMHO.

 

14 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Personally, I don't really know if Orlando even needs a huge museum.

Besides, do you really need a large footprint to have a great art museum...?

And, how big do we expect OMA to get?

My main issue with the Lynx Central Station site is that it would be next door to a crappy apartment building and a bus station. The entire area just doesn't have the kind of artsy vibe one would want for a downtown art museum IMO.

The corner of Magnolia and Washington just seems to me, to create a better more intimate atmosphere for such a building.

Putting it on a tighter, denser site like that with tall buildings in such close proximity, I think, would create a much cooler, urban, heart of downtown street feel that you wouldn't get up on Orange in that big lot.

JMHO.

OMA is already ~ 60% larger than that location of The Guggenheim. They're different types of organizations. OMA has a responsibility to display more diversity of art with robust educational programs, augmented by touring or special exhibitions, whereas the Guggenheim or other specialty museum has a more focused mission.  To draw parallels to great NYC museums, OMA should serve the same purpose as The Met. I agree a tighter space can be great, but there needs to be enough space to fulfill its mission.
In addition to the pre-Columbian collection that its known for, they have an amazing 20th century print collection, part of which is being displayed now and should see the light of day more often. As the institution matures, there will no doubt be iconic works that need to be displayed every day of the year that will serve as an attraction in and of themselves.

[JFW657]

1 minute ago, smileguy said:

 

OMA is already ~ 60% larger than that location of The Guggenheim. They're different types of organizations. OMA has a responsibility to display more diversity of art with robust educational programs, augmented by touring or special exhibitions, whereas the Guggenheim or other specialty museum has a more focused mission.  To draw parallels to great NYC museums, OMA should serve the same purpose as The Met. I agree a tighter space can be great, but there needs to be enough space to fulfill its mission.
In addition to the pre-Columbian collection that its known for, they have an amazing 20th century print collection, part of which is being displayed now and should see the light of day more often. As the institution matures, there will no doubt be iconic works that need to be displayed every day of the year that will serve as an attraction in and of themselves.

Good points all.

But re: The Guggenheim, that particular building design doesn't really efficiently utilize the 3 dimensional air space it occupies. 

Use a more cube-like shape similar to in that first pic of the Charlotte Museum and you'd increase the amount of interior space by quite a bit. I only used The Guggenheim as an example of why you don't necessarily need a large, expansive lot upon which to build.

Solution: go up, up, up!!!

[JFW657]

Just as a footnote and not to belabor the topic, all of the above ideas aside, I guess the site that makes the most all around sense would be, as has been suggested here before, at the DPAC site.

Or not?...

[dcluley98]

DPAC buildable sites are about the same size footprint as that Washington and Magnolia site. Though I agree that it is another decent option to group cultural amenities together. Plus they wouldn't have to try to procure the land and demo buildings. 

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by dcluley98

[Mark Baratelli]

4 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

DPAC buildable sites are about the same size footprint as that Washington and Magnolia site. Though I agree that it is another decent option to group cultural amenities together. Plus they wouldn't have to try to procure the land and demo buildings. 

 

Putting all cultural orgs into some district to me feels artificial, like Lincoln Center. Also, it takes away the opportunity for other districts to have destination arts buildings. 

[sunshine]

in my opinion, to cluster all the institute is a good idea.

But my idea is to create a new district with this exciting building. IF they are going to build a truly iconic art museum that doesn't resemble an airport terminal that will draw people just to see the building, I think we should take the chance to expand the downtown footprint. The DPAC area and magnolia site are kind of "capped out".

We already see that having a big plaza in front of an institute is something "desirable" aka DPAC. So, my idea is more like below... a brand new area with a park in the center for other activities. And also have rooms for Museum of natural history, museum of Disney, Museum of Space, ....to add to the inventory in the future.

 

For example Dali Museum, we all drove there to see it. But how many of us know that there is a Chihuly museum at the main street of St Pete

[dcluley98]

I have been to both Dali and Chihuly, and I also remember going to traveling exhibits in downtown St. Pete (one that sticks out was "Treasures of the Tzars" years ago). I like your idea, and think that these cultural attractions need to be grouped together to draw more awareness to them. That was why I had a couple of sites for different exhibits, thinking there can be multiple museums that offer a variety. (Bear in mind, what I put out there is a conceptual pipe dream and also was more about connecting DT and Eola - the Arts plaza and Museums was a means to bring all of these public aspects of our city together as a dream.) 

One of the main draws of a museum is rotation and special exhibitions that change periodically. A different variety of amenities grouped together will up the variety and the frequency of new exhibitions to keep the cultural assets active and relevant. More space to grow into this is important, but difficult to find if they want to be truly in the Urban setting. They have more space where they are at now, but don't have the traffic that they want to grow their audience and impact. There must be a happy medium between available space to do this and the right setting to draw more people in.

Edited February 10, 2017 by dcluley98

[alex]

16 hours ago, smileguy said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I always thought the post-modern FUMCO addition by the DPAC would have made a great art museum or gallery space. It's obviously much smaller and less architecturally significant than the "Naked Mint," but has a lot of the same urban characteristics. If they cloned the Mint anywhere Downtown, I'd be thrilled. 

 

8 hours ago, Mark Baratelli said:

Putting all cultural orgs into some district to me feels artificial, like Lincoln Center. Also, it takes away the opportunity for other districts to have destination arts buildings. 

I could be convinced either way (clustered vs. spread out), but I agree that there's something cool about each neighborhood having its own museum. For example, Park Ave has the Morse, Rollins has Cornell, Maitland has the Art Center, Downtown has the History Center, Parramore has the Wells Built, and maybe Creative Village gets a new art museum. I think a museum between Creative Village's main greenspace and Lake Dot would be a great way to anchor that area. It would also connect to Lymmo Lime.

Speaking of Lymmo, alternatively it would be cool if we could get good transit up to Loch Haven Park. Even if OMA left, there are still other institutions, a nice park, and plenty of events that are worth traveling to. 

[spenser1058]

We don't have to look much further than Winter Park to see how museums can benefit from being nearby without being in a cluster. The Morse Gallery is well-regarded (so much so NYC tried to poach it a few years back), and the Polasek and Cornell (at Rollins) all benefit from being in the neighborhood.

[spenser1058]

While speaking of the Morse, I would also really like to see the neon sign collection displayed at long last. A neon garden adjoining I4 would be fascinating and would fit in great with Ace Café and events could be tied in with the nearby History Center.

[Pete C]

I don't know why people are saying this location is so small compared to the OMA. Below is a quick and dirty overlay, to scale, of the OMA sitting on top of that corner. I let the front hang over Robinson a bit, but you can see where a slight reconfiguration of the footprint of OMA it could fit entirely into that corner taking over the parking lot areas. They could build a new parking deck on the same spot as the old one with a pedestrian bridge over Robinson.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Pete C

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I agree the corner of Robinson and Rosalind would be ideal..Especially since the city is trying to incorporate more art into Lake Eola, expand the park, relocate the amphitheater and have more cultural amenities.. The OMA at that location accomplishes all of that..

On another note I appreciate the History center down by Wall Street but what really takes away from that location is the grungy party atmosphere, there's nothing cultural about that area.. The history center seems out of place with the half naked drunks throwing up on the sidewalk..

[spenser1058]

The History Center, like OPL before it, did itself no favors by placing the entrance at ground level (and in the park for the HC). OPL's 1960's-era building managed to avoid less savory guests by having a ramp up to the entrance on what was actually the first floor (the basement was at ground level.) Of course, ADA restrictions may preclude them from doing that now and in the case of the HC it was I'm sure easier to just remove the connector with the old Annex and insert the new doorways.

Edited February 11, 2017 by spenser1058

[jgardnerucf]

What cultural connoisseur is there at 2am? Ain't nothin' wrong with a half naked grungy party.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Problem is u don't have to wait until 2a to run into the half naked drunk crowd...they are already drunk way before 2a... And as an extra u can see the vomit there the following morning... hey I'm not against ppl having fun if that's what they choose to do...but if the goal is to turn magnolia into a cultural corridor in which the history center is incorporated, DPAC at one and perhaps OMA at the other end that party scene has to be relocated.. perhaps to international drive or somewhere in between Camping world stadium and Orlando City stadium.. just saying, but then again what does a Mailman know... 

[RedStar25]

On 2/8/2017 at 7:59 AM, Jernigan said:

Jack's right - there almost certainly wont be any changes except for a plaque in the lobby or on the doors with a new management company (assuming Highwoods doesn't stay on to manage.)

Could the surface lot go away in the future?  Sure, but that wouldn't have to do with who owns it.    It's a silly amount of free parking and I can't think of any other downtown tower that offers it for tenant guests or bank customers.

The real story we aren't talking about might be what Highwoods wants the cash for.   They recently announced an office project outside of downtown so there's that.  We'd all love to see Capital Plaza 3 move forward of course.

I posted this a while back but Highwoods is moving forward with Capital Plaza III and have expanded the scope of the building. 

On 2/9/2017 at 9:32 AM, JFW657 said:

I think this would be a great location...

Adequately sized lot so that a few floors of parking could be incorporated into the design along the back, centrally located in the heart of downtown and right across the street from the Orange County History Museum. No other historic structures need to be razed in order to accommodate it.

I believe the Cathedral owns it. 

[prahaboheme]

Highlands has been moving forward with Capital Plaza III for what, a decade now? 

What new information suggests that this project will break ground anytime in the near future?

[Jernigan]

Lake and Central will be getting stop signs next week!

[Mark Baratelli]

On 2/10/2017 at 9:47 AM, spenser1058 said:

While speaking of the Morse, I would also really like to see the neon sign collection displayed at long last. A neon garden adjoining I4 would be fascinating and would fit in great with Ace Café and events could be tied in with the nearby History Center.

This. Of what benefit is it to keep this collection private? It's been going since the 70s. if the museum can't figure out a way to show it, perhaps the City can assist. Or a museum outside Orlando that's dealt with a similar collection can advise. It's hiding history from everyone by not sharing the neon. 

[Jernigan]

Any examples how how to exhibit a similar museum?   I love the idea but I'm trying to picture what type of space you'd need not to have a miserable blinding experience 

[spenser1058]

Here's one example and the one I'm familiar with:

http://www.neonmuseum.org/

Appropriately, it's in Las Vegas.

[alex]

Didn't someone say it was cost-prohibitive to display all the signs because they use so much electricity? 

[spenser1058]

In that case, OUC would need to get into the project (and maybe Duke Energy as a tax writeoff). Worst-case scenario would be limited displays in the evening but access during the day. The signs were made to be seen during the day as well, although obviously not as cool.