The Bad News Report

[JRCLT]

6 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

They took forever to get started, and then built a suburban style store you would see in fort mill. Not happy with this

Agreed. The setback of the store is insanely huge for what would be more of an urban area. Roughly 170 ft. This is awful design for pedestrians who want to walk to the grocery store.

[turbocraig]

There’s an article in the Biz Journal today about Lidl closing 2 NC stores, but then opening others.  But this tidbit was interesting to me.  I feel like I see Aldis a lot more than I see Lidls.

“In 2022, Lidl held 2.46% of the grocery market share in the Charlotte metro area, according to Chain Store Guide. Aldi reported 33 stores but fell just below Lidl with a market share of 2.21%.”

[Poo Diddy]

20 hours ago, JRCLT said:

Agreed. The setback of the store is insanely huge for what would be more of an urban area. Roughly 170 ft. This is awful design for pedestrians who want to walk to the grocery store.

A similar plot was proposed for a Lidl in downtown Greensboro.  Yes at the moment this area South of Gate City Blvd is a bunch of empty lots but the sea of parking seemed so short sighted.  The universities built a combined building across South Elm St a few years ago, and directly to the North of Gate City Blvd is the historic downtown area.

[CLT2014]

19 hours ago, turbocraig said:

There’s an article in the Biz Journal today about Lidl closing 2 NC stores, but then opening others.  But this tidbit was interesting to me.  I feel like I see Aldis a lot more than I see Lidls.

“In 2022, Lidl held 2.46% of the grocery market share in the Charlotte metro area, according to Chain Store Guide. Aldi reported 33 stores but fell just below Lidl with a market share of 2.21%.”

There are more Aldi stores than Lidl stores in Charlotte, but the average Lidl store carries twice as much inventory as an Aldi. I think Lidl is also reaching a slightly more affluent demographic than Aldi which probably results in larger basket sizes per customer with more expensive items in the cart. 

The Lidl location on South Blvd is definitely disappointing in design. The city should have required the store to be up against the street with a more pedestrian friendly design and the parking lot in the back. They didn't need to spend more to accomplish this either. Just a simple layout change. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by CLT2014

[jthomas]

1 hour ago, Poo Diddy said:

A similar plot was proposed for a Lidl in downtown Greensboro.  Yes at the moment this area South of Gate City Blvd is a bunch of empty lots but the sea of parking seemed so short sighted.  The universities built a combined building across South Elm St a few years ago, and directly to the North of Gate City Blvd is the historic downtown area.

This site in Greensboro is also bordered on the south by the Downtown Greenway. Oh, and the agreement with the city gives Lidl like seven years to build this crappy store. 

These projects highlight something else for me. Namely, that the civil engineering profession (at least around here)  seems to have absolutely zero understanding of how to deal with sites in an urban context. I think most architects have at least some understanding of basic urban design principles. However, so many projects are comprised by terrible site and/or street design, which IMO is at least as important to the urban environment as the actual building design. Our urban environments will continue to be less than the sum of their parts until the engineers figure out that what "works" in suburbia does not apply in dense urban areas.

[CarolinaCrown]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

There are more Aldi stores than Lidl stores in Charlotte, but the average Lidl store carries twice as much inventory as an Aldi. I think Lidl is also reaching a slightly more affluent demographic than Aldi which probably results in larger basket sizes per customer with more expensive items in the cart. 

The Lidl location on South Blvd is definitely disappointing in design. The city should have required the store to be up against the street with a more pedestrian friendly design and the parking lot in the back. They didn't need to spend more to accomplish this either. Just a simple layout change. 

I do remember when this project was starting off that this site required a lot of soil remediation/environmental cleanup, I don't know how or if this would have affected the design, but I know there were significant costs involved getting it cleaned up.

[DonkeyKong]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

There are more Aldi stores than Lidl stores in Charlotte, but the average Lidl store carries twice as much inventory as an Aldi. I think Lidl is also reaching a slightly more affluent demographic than Aldi which probably results in larger basket sizes per customer with more expensive items in the cart. 

The Lidl location on South Blvd is definitely disappointing in design. The city should have required the store to be up against the street with a more pedestrian friendly design and the parking lot in the back. They didn't need to spend more to accomplish this either. Just a simple layout change. 

One thing to consider with the site and store design is that when Lidl bought this property Southend was not nearly as dense, so it wasn't as out of place as it is and will be in the future.  I do agree I wish it had a better design and site plan.

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, DonkeyKong said:

One thing to consider with the site and store design is that when Lidl bought this property Southend was not nearly as dense, so it wasn't as out of place as it is and will be in the future.  I do agree I wish it had a better design and site plan.

Yep. They likely thought everybody would drive and did not forecast all the apartments getting built in this stretch. It is still transitioning from a wasteland where a QT gas station and Carvana tower is the main amenity, but quickly getting a lot of residents. 

[J-Rob]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

Yep. They likely thought everybody would drive and did not forecast all the apartments getting built in this stretch. It is still transitioning from a wasteland where a QT gas station and Carvana tower is the main amenity, but quickly getting a lot of residents. 

Hey now. I still like that QT gas station, lol. It is much more functional and useful in the area than Carvana. For gas, yes, but also snacks, drinks, etc.

[go_vertical]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Yep. They likely thought everybody would drive and did not forecast all the apartments getting built in this stretch. It is still transitioning from a wasteland where a QT gas station and Carvana tower is the main amenity, but quickly getting a lot of residents. 

I highly doubt that.  Retailers this size don't purchase land and build a new store without doing an analysis of nearly every metric you can think of, and that certainly includes projected population growth within X number of miles.  Hell, when they were planning this puppy out there were already several residential projects under construction and many more proposed within the area.  I'm pretty sure the now scaled down high rise office tower less than half a mile down the street was public info when this was still only on paper.  If they didn't have a clue that this area was on the cusp of exploding then they need a new planning team.

[videtur quam contuor]

Reminded of this story in the Wall Street Journal from quite a few years ago. It was an interview with the Wendy's location and expansion executive. The question was how to find new locations that can compete with McDonalds. McD has been well known for decades as the king of demo and traffic when locating new stores. The Wendy's exec said that yes, it is true that McDonalds has the data and skills to find the best locations. He looks to where new McDonalds sites are located and then puts Wendy's as close as possible to McD's. Bingo, bango, bongo, new location research with minimum energy. He was fired within the week.

[KJHburg]

well this is not so good.  JLL office market reports for the first half of the year is out and the overall Charlotte market has a 20.6% vacancy and uptown is still losing lots of occupied office space.  (Mainly due to Wells moving out its buildings at 2 Wells Fargo and 1 Wells Fargo into their own buildings 550 South Tryon and 3 Wells Fargo) and Duke emptying out of 400 South Tryon.    (this 20.6% vacancy does include subleases where someone is still paying the rent but marketing it as available) 

They do point out new Trophy buildings continue to attract tenants but even Class A buildings are having problems.

This is from the report:

""Proposed projects continued to delay groundbreakings last quarter. The 
longer these projects are delayed, the larger the lull period in deliveries after 
current under-construction projects deliver. This upcoming lull will provide 
an opportunity for struggling Class A properties to differentiate themselves 
and fill a vacuum following the lease-up of the final deliveries in the current 
construction wave. Investors willing to deploy capital in these properties 
can differentiate and test what market may exist for Class A+ product.

The leasing performance of two anticipated deliveries – 110 East and 
Legacy Union IV – will provide clarity on how the South End and Uptown 
submarkets compete. It is possible that South End’s dominant performance 
on the leasing market has been because of location, construction or both. 
Once adjusting for new deliveries, South End post-2015-built properties 
performed at a 2:1 net absorption ratio compared to Uptown since 2022. 
While this ratio is decidedly in favor of South End, it is not as strong as 
market sentiment indicates, which suggests that a robust construction 
pipeline has been the primary driver of success""

download your report here

Charlotte Office Insight | Q2 2023 | JLL Research

However as noted in a Biz Journal article about a week ago they think the worst is behind us as new leases are picking up.  

one bit of good news the 2nd quarter ending July 1 was a positive for the market and uptown and southend markets lets see if that holds for the next quarter 

Edited July 26, 2023 by KJHburg

[CLT2014]

Not a huge surprise given the shift to remote work in the insurance industry in particular, but North Carolina is terminating the jobs grant for the 2,250 Allstate jobs announced in 2017. Instead only 213 employees physically work at the office in Charlotte, though there are additional employees there are fully remote but live in the Charlotte area. The remote jobs though do not count towards the incentive as they can be backfilled by candidates nationwide, et. and aren't truly "Charlotte based" jobs. From Allstate to Centene, the emerging insurance cluster we had pre-Covid seems to have slowed down as the insurance industry just becomes a nationwide / where ever the best talent is industry with fully remote work. 

The News and Observer did an analysis and found the ratio of early-terminated grants versus completed grants is 3 - 1 since 2003, with most not meeting their initial announced job or investment targets. Not a huge shock given the pattern we've seen. 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article277638653.html

Edited July 26, 2023 by CLT2014

[Nathan2]

On 7/21/2023 at 11:16 AM, jthomas said:

This site in Greensboro is also bordered on the south by the Downtown Greenway. Oh, and the agreement with the city gives Lidl like seven years to build this crappy store. 

These projects highlight something else for me. Namely, that the civil engineering profession (at least around here)  seems to have absolutely zero understanding of how to deal with sites in an urban context. I think most architects have at least some understanding of basic urban design principles. However, so many projects are comprised by terrible site and/or street design, which IMO is at least as important to the urban environment as the actual building design. Our urban environments will continue to be less than the sum of their parts until the engineers figure out that what "works" in suburbia does not apply in dense urban areas.

As a planner in the Mecklenburg County area, this is for sure a problem. Almost every project that comes in the door is a copy/paste design that lacks any context to the site they are building at. These projects usually require multiple meetings pulling teeth to get basic context added to their sites. It's sad that architects and designers have lost pride in the work they produce. Of course, I can also appreciate that sometimes their hands are tied by the financial entity backing the project or local zoning limitations. 

[jthomas]

38 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

As a planner in the Mecklenburg County area, this is for sure a problem. Almost every project that comes in the door is a copy/paste design that lacks any context to the site they are building at. These projects usually require multiple meetings pulling teeth to get basic context added to their sites. It's sad that architects and designers have lost pride in the work they produce. Of course, I can also appreciate that sometimes their hands are tied by the financial entity backing the project or local zoning limitations. 

I think our society has collectively lost the concept of the street as a shared public place. Street rights-of-way are one of the largest landholdings of a municipality. But instead of treating this land as a valuable civic asset, the place where the private intersects with the public, streets have been reduced to the sole function of facilitating throughput of private motor vehicles, usually in the largest volume and at the highest speed as possible. At the same time, private buildings no longer interact with the street. They are set back away from the street, protected by landscaped buffers, and often don't even have a primary entrance facing the street. This just reinforces the degradation of the public realm into a space to pass through, rather than a place to occupy. Fixing this is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem that will require major changes to the status quo of street design, land use rules, and building design.

[15895]

To add, at the annoyance of some I’m sure, the architecture of anywhere is reflective of a community and what is important practically or socially to a community. 

What’s touted by a lot of people who care & love Charlotte is cheap, low cost, business friendly, move your business here to save money.

What does it mean for Charlotte as a place to be “best for business”? What does it mean for Businesses that Charlotte is “best for business”. To me, best in business means find a place that’s cheap, low taxes and enrich shareholders and CEO’s. It’d be one thing if all those businesses coming meant more & more prosperity but with policies like the below, it seems marginal. How can we build grand public spaces or have great spaces with a giant influx of people while tax revenue isn’t having a giant influx? 

 

If your primary goal of wanting to attract business by being cheap so they make the most money possible. You’re going to get architecture, public spaces, parks, sidewalks, etc that reflect that. If low taxes is paramount to a place, your society is going to reflect that of a place that has low taxes. 
 

For your choice of a leader of Charlotte. Would you prefer the status quo or a leader that is more concerned with public services, social programs, vision, etc  [which btw Charlotte has had before in the name of Jennifer Roberts who was ahead of her times for CLT and possibly at the worst time ever for progressives in general to run so I think she was way better than what was accomplished under her. The political environment was just awful back then]. 
 

And IMO… being cheap isn’t what made NC standout and progress ahead of some other states. It was the Research Triangle. Education. Innovation. It was ambition from NC institutions and powerful figures to make Charlotte a banking hub literally investing money into it for prestige and symbolism. Not…. Lowering corporate taxes to $0. Not by disinvesting in programs, education, communities. 

That said. It’s pretty grim in NC… to change that dynamic. It’d be like yelling in the wind and seem pointless *but* …. You gotta start somewhere. The *BEST* thing. That could happen and be realistic. A blue wave in NC, raise the corporate tax back up, and reverse a lot of policies that were designed to divert funds from urban counties. Give power back to the counties. Match local taxes for big projects. That is totally, totally doable and game changing. But the message of a better place…. Has to ring through. Better transit. Better education. How can Progressivism win in North Carolina when so many that seemingly want the results of progressivism isn’t advocating for progressive causes. For corporate taxes returning to their historical levels. Etc. If being best in business blah blah blah is such a positive…. Why in the world wouldn’t I vote for the NC GOP? That’s their accomplishment. That is because of the NC GOP. And that’s not something the NC Dem’s want… so… there really needs to be grassroots efforts. There’s only so far (like a governorship) being pro-choice, etc can take you vs. a broader vision of investments in communities all over NC urban & rural. The reason the blue line exist is because the state found it a great investment and contributed hundreds of millions to it. The silver line is not happening. Why? Because the state wants corporate taxes to be 0% (someone can fact check but isn’t it true that the funding formula that created the blue line is no longer possible under current state funding formulas?). It’s not radical. It’s how NC was before the Tea Party wave…

Edited July 26, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[jthomas]

16 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

And IMO… being cheap isn’t what made NC standout and progress ahead of some other states. It was the Research Triangle. Education. Innovation. It was ambition from NC institutions and powerful figures to make Charlotte a banking hub literally investing money into it for prestige and symbolism. Not…. Lowering corporate taxes to $0. Not by disinvesting in programs, education, communities. 

That said. It’s pretty grim in NC… to change that dynamic. It’d be like yelling in the wind and seem pointless *but* …. You gotta start somewhere. The *BEST* thing. That could happen and be realistic. A blue wave in NC, raise the corporate tax back up, and reverse a lot of policies that were designed to divert funds from urban counties. Give power back to the counties. Match local taxes for big projects. That is totally, totally doable and game changing. But the message of a better place…. Has to ring through. Better transit. Better education. How can Progressivism win in North Carolina when so many that seemingly want the results of progressivism isn’t advocating for progressive causes. For corporate taxes returning to their historical levels. Etc. If being best in business blah blah blah is such a positive…. Why in the world wouldn’t I vote for the NC GOP? That’s their accomplishment. That is because of the NC GOP. And that’s not something the NC Dem’s want… so… there really needs to be grassroots efforts. There’s only so far (like a governorship) being pro-choice, etc can take you vs. a broader vision of investments in communities all over NC urban & rural. The reason the blue line exist is because the state found it a great investment and contributed hundreds of millions to it. The silver line is not happening. Why? Because the state wants corporate taxes to be 0%. 

I agree with so much of what you wrote. IMO, NC is still riding the accomplishments of a previous generation of visionaries. The state's current success, which is built on that vision, is masking the fact that the NC GOP is working to dismantle the underpinnings of that success. However, the world has changed, NC has become much more urban, and it is time for a fresh vision for the 21st century. I agree that the Republican blueprint of low taxes and low services is not the recipe for building great places to live. Unfortunately, IMO the current political left is fixated on the dead-end of identity politics and lacks a coherent plan for how to deliver the good governance and forward-thinking projects that will sustain this state for the next 50 years. I think that if progressives at the state level could pivot away from the culture wars, they could find a lot of success with policies such as transportation and land-use reform that should be non-partisan anyway and would benefit both rural and urban communities.

Like them or not, NC Republicans can point to a lot of good things that have happened in the state under their watch. NC Dems need to avoid getting dragged into the abyss of the national culture wars, and instead come up with a clear and concrete vision of how they would improve life in this state in ways that are tangible.

[rancenc]

As the state experiences continued population growth, segments of  North Carolina are not sharing in that trend!

https://a-z-animals.com/blog/discover-the-fastest-shrinking-counties-in-north-carolina/

 

[Clemson16]

MUFG is exiting the Charlotte market in favor of a new southeast hub in Tampa. They currently occupy one floor in the Charlotte Plaza building. This comes after the sale of Union Bank to US Bank. 

[Blue_Devil]

22 hours ago, Clemson16 said:

MUFG is exiting the Charlotte market in favor of a new southeast hub in Tampa. They currently occupy one floor in the Charlotte Plaza building. This comes after the sale of Union Bank to US Bank. 

After the Union sale, they only had like 30 employees here anyway. The 400 the had sitting here all went over to US Bank

[KJHburg]

3 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

After the Union sale, they only had like 30 employees here anyway. The 400 the had sitting here all went over to US Bank

Thus US Bank needs a new home more so that  at rival Truist  Bank Tower.   I know a couple of new and older towers that would love them. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by KJHburg

[Clemson16]

On 7/29/2023 at 10:15 AM, Blue_Devil said:

After the Union sale, they only had like 30 employees here anyway. The 400 the had sitting here all went over to US Bank

Not true. My friend told me the number of impacted employees is just over 200. Peak MUFG/Union Bank Charlotte employee headcount was >600, so you are correct that the majority were sent to US Bank. But there’s still a good chunk left.

[KJHburg]

this is good news if you are Currituck County and Corolla they will have a social district.  Bad news the big sophisticated city of Charlotte seems somehow not be able to accomplish this.  Raleigh Greensboro Kannapolis Mooresville Monroe even Manteo all have social districts.  Now even little Corolla.   I guess the bad news is that Charlotte has some many layers of bureaucracy that makes a social district almost impossible to do here.  But why?    Savannah has had a social district since 1733! But that's Georgia of course.  

https://www.outerbanksvoice.com/2023/08/01/corolla-light-becomes-obxs-second-social-district/

[KJHburg]

On 8/1/2023 at 8:52 AM, KJHburg said:

this is good news if you are Currituck County and Corolla they will have a social district.  Bad news the big sophisticated city of Charlotte seems somehow not be able to accomplish this.  Raleigh Greensboro Kannapolis Mooresville Monroe even Manteo all have social districts.  Now even little Corolla.   I guess the bad news is that Charlotte has some many layers of bureaucracy that makes a social district almost impossible to do here.  But why?    Savannah has had a social district since 1733! But that's Georgia of course.  

https://www.outerbanksvoice.com/2023/08/01/corolla-light-becomes-obxs-second-social-district/

follow up from the Charlotte Ledger today.  Now the town of Pineville may beat its mega sized neighbor of Charlotte to establishing a Social district.  But there is a glimmer of hope for the QC.

From the Ledger today:

""Now Pineville is eyeing a social district; Will it beat Charlotte in getting a spot to sip and stroll?
The town of Pineville is looking at making its charming downtown a social district — an area where people would be able to buy alcoholic beverages and walk outside with open containers.

In June, downtown Pineville ice cream store owner Sara Longstreet brought a proposal to create a social district to the town council, saying that a survey of downtown businesses showed that 90% were in favor of the social district.

Now, the town is working with Pineville’s small business association and the town’s police department to draft an ordinance to present to the town council at a work session in August or September, according to town manager Ryan Spitzer.""

now the somewhat good news as reported in the Ledger     and emphasis in bold mine.  Like I said bureaucracy but somehow 300,000 population Greensboro and 476,000 population Raleigh got it done a while back. 

 

""The city of Charlotte took 9 months to create a lengthy guidelines and standards document governing social districts, and has taken pre-applications from groups including the Plaza Midwood Merchants Association and Charlotte Center City Partners. 

Charlotte could get its first social district later this year. Plaza Midwood leaders plan to present a proposal to the Charlotte City Council in September, and a vote could come in October""

 

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

follow up from the Charlotte Ledger today.  Now the town of Pineville may beat its mega sized neighbor of Charlotte to establishing a Social district.  But there is a glimmer of hope for the QC.

From the Ledger today:

""Now Pineville is eyeing a social district; Will it beat Charlotte in getting a spot to sip and stroll?
The town of Pineville is looking at making its charming downtown a social district — an area where people would be able to buy alcoholic beverages and walk outside with open containers.

In June, downtown Pineville ice cream store owner Sara Longstreet brought a proposal to create a social district to the town council, saying that a survey of downtown businesses showed that 90% were in favor of the social district.

Now, the town is working with Pineville’s small business association and the town’s police department to draft an ordinance to present to the town council at a work session in August or September, according to town manager Ryan Spitzer.""

now the somewhat good news as reported in the Ledger     and emphasis in bold mine.  Like I said bureaucracy but somehow 300,000 population Greensboro and 476,000 population Raleigh got it done a while back. 

 

""The city of Charlotte took 9 months to create a lengthy guidelines and standards document governing social districts, and has taken pre-applications from groups including the Plaza Midwood Merchants Association and Charlotte Center City Partners. 

Charlotte could get its first social district later this year. Plaza Midwood leaders plan to present a proposal to the Charlotte City Council in September, and a vote could come in October""

 

I heard that the same project management software used by Marcus Jones and Staff for Blue Line fleet maintenance is also being used for social district implementation.  We do move quickly, however, when legal entities wholly-owned by billionaires ask us for new facilities.

Edited August 3, 2023 by RANYC