2008 US Presidential Race, Obama vs McCain

[tamias6]

^^^I was under the impression that she was FOR big oil because someone close to her works for cheveron.

NPR is already reporting her abuse of power that's under investigation. I'm listening to it now.

Anyway the argument that I always hear against Obama is that he's inexperienced and unqualified. I argue that just because someone had more experience doesn't necessarily make him/her more qualified. I've met many people in many fields of work that had tons of experience and still sucked at what they did where as others are just natural with it. This is the case for Obama. No he doesn't have the "experience" per say as mccain but he has already more than proven that he's more qualified than McCain by coming out of the bowels of the governing body and emerging as the party nominee in a shirt time. He's already demonstrated his ability to bring the country together. People need to look past the nitpicky details and look at the candidate as a whole. Who is more qualified? Seeing as how McCain has had all the time in the world to make a positive name for himself and the fact that he is still struggling, I think the choice is more than clear. I shutter to think of what kind of country we live in that elects the same old people and expects progress.

[Charlotteman]

It is being said Gov. Palin is a fierce foe of abortion rights....ummmmm...just what we need:another Republican that wants to put women and doctors in jail.

Surely an anti abortion ex-beauty queen won't attract feminists who supported Hillary Clinton. There are also plenty of men who strongly support a woman's right to chose. Besides religious fanatics, who else would Gov. Palin appeal to?

[cityboi]

Indeed. Apparently they have not met the woman. The ever smart Lindsay Graham, senator from SC, says he likes her because she hunts moose.

[cityboi]

This campaign advert was quickly removed from the Palin website this morning. I guess they have not figured out yet about Mr Cache. I will let the viewer figure out why it was quickly pulled.

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[cpeakesqr]

Amen to that. Look at the last eight years. Thanks to more "experience" elected officials in Washington, we have gone from the longest lasting period of prosperity in US history to the most abysmal social-economic state since the great depression. Don't know about the rest of you. But I have had enough of the last 8 years. Its time to make "yes we can" into "yes we will".

[cityboi]

I find it interesting that every 4 years people fall for the same republican antics (wedge issues such as gun control, immigration, gay marriage, ect) People forget what matters, the economy and the war and the national debt caused by the republicans. After they get suckered into voting for the candidate, the wedge issues go away until about 4 years later and then the people complain about the war and how bad the economy is. How many times do people have to get knocked over the head? People voted for Bush because he was somebody you could have a beer with. Now people like Palin because she hunts moose. These are strange qaulifications for being president, leader of the free world and vice-president.

[satalac]

check this out around 1:53. she doesn't even know what the vp does!!!!!

[spiker3]

Antics? Same old? Is this really a discussion?

Tabbing Sarah Palin as VP is a brilliant strategic move on the McCain camp. Not only did they manage to keep it under wraps until their timetable, unlike the text message debacle, with Kaine and Bayh out at 6 PM, Biden was the only choice Obama could go with at that point, which was leaked hours before hand, but they out-flanked the Obama campaign. Ridiculing small-town America was disasterous, which Obama caught and refuted hours later, but with the exception of not having a national profile, this move is from the top down brilliant. Here's why:

1. It solidifies and excites the Republican base. While only political followers may know of her (myself included), every story from yesterday forward mentions pro-life, her recent child-birth, her Protestant roots, etc. McCain has backing, but this guarantees a vote, rather than lackluster support.

2. It appeals directly to women. Say what you want about her 'hard-line' abortion stance. 18 million people voted for Hillary and it wasn't enough. I'm not naive enough to say they'll all be throwing their weight to McCain now, but they will pull a legitimate portion of undecided female voters and Hillary Democrats, a demographic Obama must win by 10-15 points, but was only leading (before yesterday) by 6 points. Unless abortion is their #1 issue, there is the chance of switching parties. Ask around to women 25 - 49 about their political views in light of Palin's announcement. There's been shifts in more people than you might think.

3. It has and will dominate the Labor Day news cycle. Did you watch tv today? Obama was lucky to get 5 minutes from 9 AM until prime-time. His speech became an after thought for the majority of the day. If McCain had tabbed a Pawlenty or Romney, it would have gotten the ho-hum that Joe Biden received. Instead, this entire weekend will be about the GOP, McCain and Palin, with a sidebar of Obama, instead of the opposite. McCain & Co. did a phenomenal job at controlling this news cycle and the message, completely throwing the DNC for a loop (note the lack of consistent message all day from Democrats)

4. It lays a dangerous trap for Obama, that his surrogates are already falling into. Experience. Whatever your feelings about Alaska may be, being a Governor is executive leadership, something Obama does not have. If the next 66 days are about experience, Obama loses. Period. Yet Democrats are making Palin's supposed lack of experience some kind of trump card over Obama. Which is basically a round-about way of trying to end a discussion they are getting killed on. Trying to say that Palin has no experience is first of all erroneous (she has more elected experience than Obama, you can quibble over the details but the facts remain) She's had executive leadership, where Obama has had none. But the pitfalls for Obama attempting this, well your VP isn't so experienced either so let's call a truce, stance Democrats are taking are fraught with danger. The more experience is talked about, the worse Obama does in the national polls. So i encourage Democrats to continue to speaking about experience, a conversation where they repeatedly look bad.

5. It creates a reform ticket. cityboi especially, read into her background. There's no 'supposed fought that bridge'. She did. She defeated the 'Old Guard' establishment in a state aching for reform. She took on the party chairman and won. Took on a 30 year Senator and won. She provided evidence for Ted Stevens indictment. While Obama is associated with change, McCain can now make the argument that saying one thing and doing another (tabbing Joe Biden specifically, the ultimate Washington insider) is Obama's chief trait, while he actually has brought about change, as did his running mate, and they are the best suited to 'change'

Those are only a few things, and some of you may have read them and some of you skimmed get indignant and reply right away. But my point is simple. McCain/Palin is a formidable ticket, not an antic or play or desperation move (today's funnier quotes came from Democrats claiming McCain was 'grasping for straws' 'rolling the dice' and 'throwing a Hail Mary') McCain was leading in the polls going into the DNC, where, as expected Obama has regained the lead. But McCain stymied Obama's post convention bounce; Obama will be lucky to be leading by anything over 7 points on Tuesday. This was not an ill-advised decision. It was a strategic move. Are the McCains and Palins close friends? No. Did he have face time with her repeatedly? No. Did he need to? No. Vetting is vetting, whether by McCain, his team or the media. She's been vetted, she passed. It speaks volumes that her felt comfortable enough to tab her after few face to face, speaks to her personality and character, as well as her resume. Sarah Palin has been underestimated her entire political career, yet has ascended to the national level, where leading Democrats are continuing to underestimate her. She's failed once in her career, a Lt Gov position, which she spring-boarded that loss into the Governor's office.

So continue doubting, supposing and ridiculing. It's easier than actually reading a bio or learning anything new that's not in propoganda. But this surprise move has left Democrats reeling internally, and with the RNC next week McCain/Palin are poised right now to do what was unthinkable a year, six months or even two months ago: be leading in the national polls in September.

[satalac]

i don't believe the polls, even if they were in favor of my candidate. they are poorly done and quite inaccurate. the only way to truly know is election day. i think the big question must be asked. if mccain is elected and passes away (hey, i might not like his stance, but i definitely do not wish this to happen), would she be ready to act a president? she even admitted she did not know what the vice president does! mccain's choice was based on the fact that she has female genitalia, that's it. if obama was white, i can guarantee you the vp choice of mccain would be a male.

[krazeeboi]

Democrats have to be careful in their criticism of Palin here. They need to make sure that they aren't criticizing her for lack of experience, but that they criticize McCain & Co. for criticizing Obama for lack of experience and then turning around and picking an inexperienced VP candidate. When you've got a 72-year-old presidential candidate that has had multiple bouts with cancer and a VP candidate that doesn't know what a VP does or who by her own admission hasn't focused much on the war in Iraq, that's a liability. As far as executive experience, in and of itself that means nothing--just look at the past 8 years under an administration headed by a president who had executive experience. Furthermore, she's not at the top of the ticket anyway, McCain is--and he has no executive experience. Palin's choice also somewhat nullifies McCain's "celebrity" attack towards Obama, as Palin has placed in a few beauty contests.

While picking Palin will definitely appeal to some women, how will it play among Independents in general? I suppose the next two months will answer that.

As far as this news dominating the Labor Day news cycle, this type of thing works in cycles. Over the next few days, tropical systems Gustav and Hannah will be dominating the news--and this presents a chance for the Democrats to point out the failings of the Bush administration in the Hurricane Katrina aftermath. It would be especially poignant to point out that Obama sponsored (not co-sponsored, but sponsored) several bills in the 108th Congress related to those who suffered in the wake of the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina, whereas McCain did not sponsor even one.

And of course, there's the economy. Palin doesn't help with that at all. If Democrats can manage to try and keep that front and center, they will have blunted a good bit of the buzz surrounding McCain's VP pick.

[tamias6]

Antics? Same old? Is this really a discussion?

Tabbing Sarah Palin as VP is a brilliant strategic move on the McCain camp. Not only did they manage to keep it under wraps until their timetable, unlike the text message debacle, with Kaine and Bayh out at 6 PM, Biden was the only choice Obama could go with at that point, which was leaked hours before hand, but they out-flanked the Obama campaign. Ridiculing small-town America was disasterous, which Obama caught and refuted hours later, but with the exception of not having a national profile, this move is from the top down brilliant. Here's why:

1. It solidifies and excites the Republican base. While only political followers may know of her (myself included), every story from yesterday forward mentions pro-life, her recent child-birth, her Protestant roots, etc. McCain has backing, but this guarantees a vote, rather than lackluster support.

2. It appeals directly to women. Say what you want about her 'hard-line' abortion stance. 18 million people voted for Hillary and it wasn't enough. I'm not naive enough to say they'll all be throwing their weight to McCain now, but they will pull a legitimate portion of undecided female voters and Hillary Democrats, a demographic Obama must win by 10-15 points, but was only leading (before yesterday) by 6 points. Unless abortion is their #1 issue, there is the chance of switching parties. Ask around to women 25 - 49 about their political views in light of Palin's announcement. There's been shifts in more people than you might think.

3. It has and will dominate the Labor Day news cycle. Did you watch tv today? Obama was lucky to get 5 minutes from 9 AM until prime-time. His speech became an after thought for the majority of the day. If McCain had tabbed a Pawlenty or Romney, it would have gotten the ho-hum that Joe Biden received. Instead, this entire weekend will be about the GOP, McCain and Palin, with a sidebar of Obama, instead of the opposite. McCain & Co. did a phenomenal job at controlling this news cycle and the message, completely throwing the DNC for a loop (note the lack of consistent message all day from Democrats)

4. It lays a dangerous trap for Obama, that his surrogates are already falling into. Experience. Whatever your feelings about Alaska may be, being a Governor is executive leadership, something Obama does not have. If the next 66 days are about experience, Obama loses. Period. Yet Democrats are making Palin's supposed lack of experience some kind of trump card over Obama. Which is basically a round-about way of trying to end a discussion they are getting killed on. Trying to say that Palin has no experience is first of all erroneous (she has more elected experience than Obama, you can quibble over the details but the facts remain) She's had executive leadership, where Obama has had none. But the pitfalls for Obama attempting this, well your VP isn't so experienced either so let's call a truce, stance Democrats are taking are fraught with danger. The more experience is talked about, the worse Obama does in the national polls. So i encourage Democrats to continue to speaking about experience, a conversation where they repeatedly look bad.

5. It creates a reform ticket. cityboi especially, read into her background. There's no 'supposed fought that bridge'. She did. She defeated the 'Old Guard' establishment in a state aching for reform. She took on the party chairman and won. Took on a 30 year Senator and won. She provided evidence for Ted Stevens indictment. While Obama is associated with change, McCain can now make the argument that saying one thing and doing another (tabbing Joe Biden specifically, the ultimate Washington insider) is Obama's chief trait, while he actually has brought about change, as did his running mate, and they are the best suited to 'change'

Those are only a few things, and some of you may have read them and some of you skimmed get indignant and reply right away. But my point is simple. McCain/Palin is a formidable ticket, not an antic or play or desperation move (today's funnier quotes came from Democrats claiming McCain was 'grasping for straws' 'rolling the dice' and 'throwing a Hail Mary') McCain was leading in the polls going into the DNC, where, as expected Obama has regained the lead. But McCain stymied Obama's post convention bounce; Obama will be lucky to be leading by anything over 7 points on Tuesday. This was not an ill-advised decision. It was a strategic move. Are the McCains and Palins close friends? No. Did he have face time with her repeatedly? No. Did he need to? No. Vetting is vetting, whether by McCain, his team or the media. She's been vetted, she passed. It speaks volumes that her felt comfortable enough to tab her after few face to face, speaks to her personality and character, as well as her resume. Sarah Palin has been underestimated her entire political career, yet has ascended to the national level, where leading Democrats are continuing to underestimate her. She's failed once in her career, a Lt Gov position, which she spring-boarded that loss into the Governor's office.

So continue doubting, supposing and ridiculing. It's easier than actually reading a bio or learning anything new that's not in propoganda. But this surprise move has left Democrats reeling internally, and with the RNC next week McCain/Palin are poised right now to do what was unthinkable a year, six months or even two months ago: be leading in the national polls in September.

[Nashville_maestro]

Here's how "close" the race REALLY is among young people... via facebook...

McCain supporters:

...and Obama supporters:

Plus Spiker3, I completely respect your opinions but you're being nitpicky again and focusing in on the details that dont matter. I'll admit though that many of us democrats and independents on this board are guilty of the same exact thing but the fact of the matter is that McCain has supported Bush 90% of the time (he would have you believe otherwise though). If you are satisfied with Bush's methods than that's you're decision. McCain is your man. If you, like so many others are tired of corruption and partisan politics (politics focusing on ideals rather than diplomacy) than give Obama another look.

The world is changing and rapidly. China is making an ascent as the dominating economic force of planet Earth, the climate is changing, people are exploring new renewable technologies, the middle east has become a major economic and political player on this planet, the oceans are rising, major cities are getting drowned, and much more. The law of nature is adapt or die. So far what I'm seeing from the republican party is the same old crap... refusal to change. They would rather believe that everything is ok, the United States is ALWAYS going to be the dominant force on this planet (it won't be), basically the politics from yesterday will work tomorrow. We're already seeing signs that the United States is dying under the Bush administration and with McCain agreeing with Bush 90% of the time, the Unites States will become even more sick if he were elected. Now with climate change even more is at stake than just us. Change in politics with this issue MUST come with the next term or it will be too late. With big oil having already bought McCain, I'm having my doubts that he would do much of anything. It's your call though.

Oh and I think that the media will have forgotten about McCain choice for vice president by sunday. The media has the attention span of an 8 year old.

[Nashville_maestro]

^^^ I would also like to add that young people aren't stupid (in fact a lot are smarter than their parents) and there opinion should count, even if they're not old enough to vote -after all they ARE our future. I'm a firm believer that if you are a parent, then your vote is representing more than just yourself. Your children should have a say in who you vote for (if they care). According to the pics I just posted young people support Obama nearly 7 to 1 versus adults that are supposidly neck and neck. Granted many of the people in those groups are old enough to vote - and I'm sure most of them actually will this time around- a lot of them aren't. Please if you're a parent on here then talk with your child and see if they have an opinion. Thanks.

[vdogg]

So continue doubting, supposing and ridiculing. It's easier than actually reading a bio or learning anything new that's not in propoganda. But this surprise move has left Democrats reeling internally, and with the RNC next week McCain/Palin are poised right now to do what was unthinkable a year, six months or even two months ago: be leading in the national polls in September.

[cityboi]

Antics? Same old? Is this really a discussion?

Tabbing Sarah Palin as VP is a brilliant strategic move on the McCain camp. Not only did they manage to keep it under wraps until their timetable, unlike the text message debacle, with Kaine and Bayh out at 6 PM, Biden was the only choice Obama could go with at that point, which was leaked hours before hand, but they out-flanked the Obama campaign. Ridiculing small-town America was disasterous, which Obama caught and refuted hours later, but with the exception of not having a national profile, this move is from the top down brilliant. Here's why:

1. It solidifies and excites the Republican base. While only political followers may know of her (myself included), every story from yesterday forward mentions pro-life, her recent child-birth, her Protestant roots, etc. McCain has backing, but this guarantees a vote, rather than lackluster support.

2. It appeals directly to women. Say what you want about her 'hard-line' abortion stance. 18 million people voted for Hillary and it wasn't enough. I'm not naive enough to say they'll all be throwing their weight to McCain now, but they will pull a legitimate portion of undecided female voters and Hillary Democrats, a demographic Obama must win by 10-15 points, but was only leading (before yesterday) by 6 points. Unless abortion is their #1 issue, there is the chance of switching parties. Ask around to women 25 - 49 about their political views in light of Palin's announcement. There's been shifts in more people than you might think.

3. It has and will dominate the Labor Day news cycle. Did you watch tv today? Obama was lucky to get 5 minutes from 9 AM until prime-time. His speech became an after thought for the majority of the day. If McCain had tabbed a Pawlenty or Romney, it would have gotten the ho-hum that Joe Biden received. Instead, this entire weekend will be about the GOP, McCain and Palin, with a sidebar of Obama, instead of the opposite. McCain & Co. did a phenomenal job at controlling this news cycle and the message, completely throwing the DNC for a loop (note the lack of consistent message all day from Democrats)

4. It lays a dangerous trap for Obama, that his surrogates are already falling into. Experience. Whatever your feelings about Alaska may be, being a Governor is executive leadership, something Obama does not have. If the next 66 days are about experience, Obama loses. Period. Yet Democrats are making Palin's supposed lack of experience some kind of trump card over Obama. Which is basically a round-about way of trying to end a discussion they are getting killed on. Trying to say that Palin has no experience is first of all erroneous (she has more elected experience than Obama, you can quibble over the details but the facts remain) She's had executive leadership, where Obama has had none. But the pitfalls for Obama attempting this, well your VP isn't so experienced either so let's call a truce, stance Democrats are taking are fraught with danger. The more experience is talked about, the worse Obama does in the national polls. So i encourage Democrats to continue to speaking about experience, a conversation where they repeatedly look bad.

5. It creates a reform ticket. cityboi especially, read into her background. There's no 'supposed fought that bridge'. She did. She defeated the 'Old Guard' establishment in a state aching for reform. She took on the party chairman and won. Took on a 30 year Senator and won. She provided evidence for Ted Stevens indictment. While Obama is associated with change, McCain can now make the argument that saying one thing and doing another (tabbing Joe Biden specifically, the ultimate Washington insider) is Obama's chief trait, while he actually has brought about change, as did his running mate, and they are the best suited to 'change'

Those are only a few things, and some of you may have read them and some of you skimmed get indignant and reply right away. But my point is simple. McCain/Palin is a formidable ticket, not an antic or play or desperation move (today's funnier quotes came from Democrats claiming McCain was 'grasping for straws' 'rolling the dice' and 'throwing a Hail Mary') McCain was leading in the polls going into the DNC, where, as expected Obama has regained the lead. But McCain stymied Obama's post convention bounce; Obama will be lucky to be leading by anything over 7 points on Tuesday. This was not an ill-advised decision. It was a strategic move. Are the McCains and Palins close friends? No. Did he have face time with her repeatedly? No. Did he need to? No. Vetting is vetting, whether by McCain, his team or the media. She's been vetted, she passed. It speaks volumes that her felt comfortable enough to tab her after few face to face, speaks to her personality and character, as well as her resume. Sarah Palin has been underestimated her entire political career, yet has ascended to the national level, where leading Democrats are continuing to underestimate her. She's failed once in her career, a Lt Gov position, which she spring-boarded that loss into the Governor's office.

So continue doubting, supposing and ridiculing. It's easier than actually reading a bio or learning anything new that's not in propoganda. But this surprise move has left Democrats reeling internally, and with the RNC next week McCain/Palin are poised right now to do what was unthinkable a year, six months or even two months ago: be leading in the national polls in September.

[monsoon]

......

1. It solidifies and excites the Republican base. While only political followers may know of her (myself included), every story from yesterday forward mentions pro-life, her recent child-birth, her Protestant roots, etc. McCain has backing, but this guarantees a vote, rather than lackluster support......

[Nashville_maestro]

I actually feel kind of sorry for pulin because this is a huge deal for her and her family and we all know that McCain is just using her. Oh well. Welcome to politics I guess.

[cityboi]

I actually feel kind of sorry for pulin because this is a huge deal for her and her family and we all know that McCain is just using her. Oh well. Welcome to politics I guess.

[cpeakesqr]

Antics? Same old? Is this really a discussion?

Tabbing Sarah Palin as VP is a brilliant strategic move on the McCain camp. Not only did they manage to keep it under wraps until their timetable, unlike the text message debacle, with Kaine and Bayh out at 6 PM, Biden was the only choice Obama could go with at that point, which was leaked hours before hand, but they out-flanked the Obama campaign. Ridiculing small-town America was disasterous, which Obama caught and refuted hours later, but with the exception of not having a national profile, this move is from the top down brilliant. Here's why:

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

[monsoon]

What most people in the lower 48 don't realize that Alaska state government makes money off every barrel of oil pumped out of AK. This translates into a payout by the government to every citizen in the state every year as well as tens of millions more going into the state treasury. People depend on this money as "income". So in essence Pulin is running a welfare state. It amazes me, the "conservatives" have not figured this out. It's easy to claim fiscal responsibility with this kind of windfall coming in and why she is so supportive of drilling in the wildlife refuges. No politician in AK would ever challenge the oil industry.

It is an example that this woman has not had to face any of the challenges of running a government that is bankrupt as that of the United States as she is running a welfare state.

------------------------------

On a different issue, it's going to be interesting to see if the GOP changes it's schedule because Bush is scheduled to speak on the eve that Hurricane Gustav is projected to hit New Orleans. It will highlight his utter failure to lead the government because the cronies he stuffed into the leadership positions are incompetent at their jobs. Here we are 5 years after the NO disaster and the city finds itself now without ANY disaster shelters for this kind of storm. Amazing. What kind of people would a McCain presidency pick for these positions? If his first executive position, his VP choice, is any indication, then I feel unfortunately the United States will go into another holding pattern and decline for 4 more years.

[cpeakesqr]

What most people in the lower 48 don't realize that Alaska state government makes money off every barrel of oil pumped out of AK. This translates into a payout by the government to every citizen in the state every year as well as tens of millions more going into the state treasury. People depend on this money as "income". So in essence Pulin is running a welfare state. It amazes me, the "conservatives" have not figured this out. It's easy to claim fiscal responsibility with this kind of windfall coming in and why she is so supportive of drilling in the wildlife refuges. No politician in AK would ever challenge the oil industry.

It is an example that this woman has not had to face any of the challenges of running a government that is bankrupt as that of the United States as she is running a welfare state.

------------------------------

On a different issue, it's going to be interesting to see if the GOP changes it's schedule because Bush is scheduled to speak on the eve that Hurricane Gustav is projected to hit New Orleans. It will highlight his utter failure to lead the government because the cronies he stuffed into the leadership positions are incompetent at their jobs. Here we are 5 years after the NO disaster and the city finds itself now without ANY disaster shelters for this kind of storm. Amazing. What kind of people would a McCain presidency pick for these positions? If his first executive position, his VP choice, is any indication, then I feel unfortunately the United States will go into another holding pattern and decline for 4 more years.

[cityboi]

3) Definitely created some hype, but how long will it last when the whole of her experience is less than 20 months.

[vdogg]

agreed. the enthusiasm McCain tried to make with Palin is really artificial in an atempt to compete with a genuine movement of change on the democratic side

[cpeakesqr]

ROFL at "love pita". I think McCain, or more accurately McCain/Bush's staff, are going to make this another ideological fight about the wedge issues. Obama met a greater challenge in the primaries, and I have faith that he and Biden can beat this ticket, because she is no Hillary Clinton!

[Lowerdeck]

The pick of Palin was intriguing to me for a couple of hours. (Full disclosure: the couple of hours I had the radio on Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh to appease my boss).

About the only good thing you can say about Palin is that she has no idea what the job is. Which well, considering Dick Cheney ... this might be a good thing. And about the only other good thing is she's not a Washington anything yet. Hasn't completely sold her soul to special interests and lobbyists yet, which is good but it's a matter of time before she does.

All that needs to be said about Palin: she believes in creationism and wants it taught to the children in the schools. She's no better than Mike Huckabee.

I still plan on voting for a third party. The pick of Palin just makes me further disillusioned with the Republican party, of which I'm more and more embarrassed to be a part of.