SouthEnd Midrise Projects

[ah59396]

http://plancharlotte.org/story/development-threatens-charlottes-south-end-common-market-food-trucks

 

article with Gaines. Not much in here in terms of the actual plans. To summarize: he's happy with DFAs plans, retail on Camden and SOUNDS like they will have a big public parking garage of some sorts. South end needs more accessible parking . This is good. If it's a cool looking garage that is.  

 

F**k this article and the sorry/not sorry attitude.  The whole "oh well, it's part of development" attitude makes me sick.  You can grow and still save the things that made the place good to begin with.  Building an uber modern "space" that looks like a scene from I, Robot doesn't do a damn bit of good for SouthEnd except make it less of a place for regular human beings to go.  I hate everything about this project.

[Guest]

I would be very happy with a carbon copy of 601 Mass. 

Interestingly the sizes of the sites are pretty comparable. 601 Mass is about 200k larger, but it probably doesn't have as much required parking, so it could be pretty comparable in size. 

I should also note that now that we know a nearly 400k sq foot building can fit on this site, why the fudge do we have to lose the interesting buildings on the corner????

 

Frankly, I can live without Common Market Building. I cannot live without these.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2015 by Guest

[Spartan]

Please do not copy and paste articles onto Urban Planet. Copy a paragraph or paraphrase, and then include a link. Thanks.

Spectrum is building apartments here. The small office building at 1208 S Tryon is a goner too. They're doing a land swap with the owner of the large office building at Tryon and Carson and building them an additional row of office parking since that owner also owned the land next to the building pictured above. The rest of the block will be apartments.

While I'm normally on the "save it" bandwagon, I'm personally not a fan of that building. It's a suburban-style design that can go away as far as I'm concerned. The buiding next door (1228) would be a huge loss though.

 

That's too bad becasue they could still do very well in South End while opening in Oakhurst and Wesley Heights. 

I thought I read they were looking at Mint/Summit? It would suck for South End to not have a Common Market.

[dcharlotte]

What might make you even more angry is that next to 601 Mass (known as the former NPR HQ), the new office building built there saved the facades of a few older buildings. You can see that here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9025276,-77.0207254,3a,75y,353.03h,95.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLX-cEa7cF2RSlMQ0KkROWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

Sadly the real estate prices in Charlotte don't support saving buildings. Facades should be the easiest thing to incorporate and would probably add a LOT more character to this project. 

[Guest]

Please do not copy and paste articles onto Urban Planet. Copy a paragraph or paraphrase, and then include a link. Thanks.

While I'm normally on the "save it" bandwagon, I'm personally not a fan of that building. It's a suburban-style design that can go away as far as I'm concerned. The buiding next door (1228) would be a huge loss though.

I thought I read they were looking at Mint/Summit? It would suck for South End to not have a Common Market.

1228 S. Tryon is the building in question that would be a loss. I don't care one iota about the Colonial/Traditional Stucco monstrosity behind it. The only solace I have is the fact that the former owners of the Building, ARGOS, are behind some of the best historic restoration in the city. They have been converting interesting properties right and left and giving them new life. If they didn't save this building, its because something is SERIOUSLY wrong with it.

 

[Spartan]

F**k this article and the sorry/not sorry attitude.  The whole "oh well, it's part of development" attitude makes me sick.  You can grow and still save the things that made the place good to begin with.  Building an uber modern "space" that looks like a scene from I, Robot doesn't do a damn bit of good for SouthEnd except make it less of a place for regular human beings to go.  I hate everything about this project.

I generally agree with this sentiment. However, looking forward, the opportunity to preserve Food Truck Fridays exists. The CDOT is piloting a new program/permitting process to allow food truck to operate in the public ROW. It's only uptown for now, but I can easily see this expanding to South End if it's successful.

 

Interestingly the sizes of the sites are pretty comparable. 601 Mass is about 200k larger, but it probably doesn't have as much required parking, so it could be pretty comparable in size. 

I should also note that now that we know a nearly 400k sq foot building can fit on this site, why the fudge do we have to lose the interesting buildings on the corner????

 

Frankly, I can live without Common Market Building. I cannot live without these.

 

 

Exactly.

[CLTProductions]

Can't remember where we talked about it so I'll put it here. The land in front of Camden Grandview is being marketed for a hotel use. Yay 

[kermit]

HD Supply site has been purchased by Beacon Partners for $10.1 million. Sounds like the vague mixed use project won't start for at least 2 years.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/real_estate/2015/09/beacon-partners-purchases-prime-block-in-south-end.html?ana=e_clt_bn_breakingnews&u=jDmEk+CKbYnAvaVfOFOlFGXcGSC&t=1441385260

So as Southend becomes more like uptown does Wilmore become more like 4th Ward? (at least in terms of residential RE pricing, I don't really expect to see the VUE-Wilmore in my lifetime)

Edited September 4, 2015 by kermit

[SgtCampsalot]

 

So as Southend becomes more like uptown does Wilmore become more like 4th Ward? (at least in terms of residential RE pricing, I don't really expect to see the VUE-Wilmore in my lifetime)

Yep. Probably a safe bet. Once there's a critical mass of nice houses for people to get over the fear of crossing over South Tryon, it will be a tidal wave.

[southslider]

^The fear of South Tryon is real. When Poindexter was planned to be extended, Sedgefield residents tried to convince the City to not connect them with "that area."

[SgtCampsalot]

Op-ed blog post by Architect, Urban Designer, and UNCC professor, David Walters on Gaines Brown, the owner/seller of the Camden parcel:

Change is coming to South End. Don't blame Gaines Brown

[atlrvr]

A pre-owned exotic car dealer is opening in South End.  (1316 S Tryon).  Metrolina Auto Group is rehabbing the existing building.  Looks like they should be opening probably within a month.

 

http://instidy.com/metrolina_ryan/p/1011012036599060770_13157149

Looks like this opened.

There was a Ferrari, Rolls Royce, and Lamborghini all parked in front yesterday when I drove by.

 

 

[CLTProductions]

Op-ed blog post by Architect, Urban Designer, and UNCC professor, David Walters on Gaines Brown, the owner/seller of the Camden parcel:

Change is coming to South End. Don't blame Gaines Brown

Posted a page back.

Looks like this opened.

There was a Ferrari, Rolls Royce, and Lamborghini all parked in front yesterday when I drove by.

 

 

Ohhhh so thats why there were super nice cars. I walked by the other night and didnt put 2 and 2 together. Yeah it's open.

[jednc]

Op-ed blog post by Architect, Urban Designer, and UNCC professor, David Walters on Gaines Brown, the owner/seller of the Camden parcel:

Change is coming to South End. Don't blame Gaines Brown

Great article. Thanks for posting.

Edit: Or, after reading Jayvee's post...thanks for reposting (I missed it the first time too).

Edited September 4, 2015 by jednc

[kermit]

RE: DFA building on the Food Truck / CM lot

Seems awfully unlikely but the Observer had this to say about Common Market:

The companies have had preliminary talks with Common Market about possibly being an anchor retail tenant in the new building. The Common Market’s owners have also said they’re searching for a new site, possibly in the Johnson C. Smith area in west Charlotte.

Construction in "late 2016"

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article34383543.html

Edited September 8, 2015 by kermit

[SgtCampsalot]

No way in heck CM would be in a new building. Financial and ethical reasons.

[rockhilljames]

Ugh. There are so many other areas this could go. The Camden/East/West area has a real chance to be a stroll district. I hate losing the diversity of buildings we have here.

[jwntim]

WFAE (Charlotte's NPR) has Gaines Brown on right now talking about Southend development. A recording of the show will be posted here : http://wfae.org/post/south-end-past-and-future

[archiham04]

Gaines Brown has been accused of "selling out"....  not really ... he is simply  walking away in exchange for a lot of money.  totally different.  I don't blame the guy for selling, but he sold... out.

[SgtCampsalot]

I mean... I am angry, sad, and pissed at this.

But... David Walters and Ely are pretty accurate with one thing: artists, entrepreneurs, and by extension, Millennials, are the newest "shock troops" of bringing life to crappy areas. While South End Common Market was the first thing that made me stop hating Charlotte as a young person, the idea of taking that spirit elsewhere, and doing the same thing there, is appealing, and beautiful in its own way.

I suppose if we do nothing but look ahead, and preventing ourselves from creating art and new small businesses because we're afraid of how it might cause that neighborhood to eventually gentrify and push out those artists/businesses, then we would literally be paralyzed by fear, and no life or culture would ever spread. So perhaps a lack of cultural perspective is the biggest culprit here.

[cltbwimob]

Gaines Brown has been accused of "selling out"....  not really ... he is simply  walking away in exchange for a lot of money.  totally different.  I don't blame the guy for selling, but he sold... out.

I listened to entire show and was furious throughout.

I was especially pissed at the fact that there have been several projects on the drawing boards that would have left the corner shops intact.  One of the projects that Gaines talked about, the boutique hotel, would have deliberately incorporated the little corner shops into the overall project, but Gaines made it seem like he did not want to sign off on that project because the construction would have had a negative impact on the shop owners.  Now those shop owners he ostensibly tried to protect are going to be uprooted completely, and will have to find a new spot which may have a negative impact on them or cause them to lose there business outright.

Secondly, I was upset about the rationalizing/self-affirming tone that Gaines utilized throughout the interview, specifically as it relates to Food Truck Friday and Common Market.  It sounded to me as if he was trying to convince the audience and himself that he was, in a twisted way, helping the owners of the food trucks and CM because "they are now afforded the opportunity to go make some other place just as special as they did his plot."  It's kind of like being a bank, foreclosing on someone's home, but then telling the evicted homeowners "look at the bright side, you get to go somewhere else and experience living in a new location."

I was also upset at the general idea that this is just the natural evolution of neighborhoods and that artists/creative types sole purpose is to be agents of change, but once the neighborhood becomes cool its time for the creative types to move on and be agents of change elsewhere.  I guess the thinking goes that once a neighborhood is cool, it's time for the McApartment and McOffice builders to come in, drive out the people and things who made it cool in the first place, and sterilize the neighborhood with beige-wash midrise stucco and hardiplank buildings.

While not in the WFAE story, I am also very upset about the fact that DFA is going to bulldoze the entire block yet say they "care deeply about the character of the neighborhood" as they have so often claimed and as they did the other day in the CBJ.  If these people cared deeply about the neighborhood, they would build elsewhere where they do not have to tear down some of the Southend's favorite spots.  At most they would just build on the empty lots behind CM, and perhaps change their site plan to be more vertical rather than horizontal in order to keep CM and the other shops intact. They have hundreds of billions of dollars under management, I am pretty sure they make enough money to build up  a few more floors so they do not have to tear down the 1920s buildings that exist on the lot.  At any rate, don't tell us how impressed you are with the character of the neighborhood and then come in and destroy some of that character.  Hell, this is one of the few remaining spots in Southend that actually has character, but that is now coming to an end.  Thank you DFA.

I am livid about this whole situation.  I am livid that our F-ing zoning ordinances are so weak that crap like this is even allowed. I am mad because a multi-billion dollar company that claims to care deeply about the character is willing to destroy the character of the neighborhood.  If you care deeply about it, then save Common Market and the other shops on this lot.  I am mad because Gaines Brown somehow seems to think he is doing these business owners a favor by allowing them to fly free and be a benefit to other neighborhoods in the same way as they have been to Southend.  If these people are going to wipe the neighborhood clean, then just do it and wear it with pride.  Don't come to the citizens, stick a thumb in their eye and then try to convince them that it's a facial massage.

/Rant over

[SgtCampsalot]

There's no re-zoning app yet... I feel as though if there was ONE rezoning that would be fiercely opposed, it would be this one. Who sees opposition actually happening? Will CM, and rationality, supporters rally each other?

 

Seriously, could Common Market's hipster patrons be convinced to swarm the meetings?

Edited September 11, 2015 by SgtCampsalot

[ah59396]

Here, here! Cltbwimob!  Couldn't agree more.  This "oh well, that's how neighborhoods work as they grow" attitude is horsecrap.  I've been to plenty of high end neighborhoods in other cities that haven't sacrificed whatever semblance of human scale they had left for an 11 story office "built to suit" for a f***ing financial firm.

Gaines Brown is a sellout.  Plain and simple.  Which, whatever, it's his property and right to cash out if he so chooses.  But don't kick me in the balls and then try to convince me it's good for me.

[11 HouseBZ]

Truth fella, truth.(cltbwimob) Could someone write an op-ed to the effect of what cltbwimob said? Possibly Charlotte Agenda? General consensus here and elsewhere is that we lament the loss of what little history is left, but it stops there. What action could be done, past our rants, that could get the masses involved? Are there any examples of companies/developers bowing to the pressure of the community and adjusting there plans? If our culture of tearing down history is to change, it has to begin some where. I dunno, maybe I'm off my rocker thinking this way. 

[NYCLT]

I'm in Hoboken, NJ right now.. not asking for South End to be Hoboken but damn I wish we could get something like it.. density along the light rail is all I ask, no parking lots just bars and street activity

I know that this is a very affluent area but I feel that the small city of Hoboken has more density and better urban atmosphere than our most urban areas regardless of tall buildings. This is what we need south end to be

Edited September 12, 2015 by NYCLT