Mixed Use Spirit Square and Main Library Redevelopment

[KJHburg]

The more I think about this 7th and Tryon project falling apart might be the office component which was required I think by the county with this project.  Hopefully they will now sell the land to the highest bidders and let them build what they want under a wide  UMUD zoning.   The example of the state selling the excess DOT land is a great example and that was all developed quickly.  I think the county in this case put too many handcuffs on this project.  Give bonuses or incentives for certain things that mean more to the county but let the market decide.    The more local government gets involved the more complicated it gets.  For this project that was not needed other than to say the county owned library site and Spirit Square will remain.  

I would not care if it was all residential on the rest of the block or some kind of mix of hotel and residential.  We need more people living uptown.  Period end of the story.  

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

The more I think about this 7th and Tryon project falling apart might be the office component which was required I think by the county with this project.  Hopefully they will now sell the land to the highest bidders and let them build what they want under a wide  UMUD zoning.   The example of the state selling the excess DOT land is a great example and that was all developed quickly.  I think the county in this case put too many handcuffs on this project.  Give bonuses or incentives for certain things that mean more to the county but let the market decide.    The more local government gets involved the more complicated it gets.  For this project that was not needed other than to say the county owned library site and Spirit Square will remain.  

I would not care if it was all residential on the rest of the block or some kind of mix of hotel and residential.  We need more people living uptown.  Period end of the story.  

I agree with you and would be pleased with getting these lots filled in with all residential.  Our “good friends” at Charlotte Center City Partners (CCCP) have spoken, however, and according to Bizjournals, Michael Smith (CCCP CEO) appears to  want to get the office portions of the site ready for when the cycle turns.  That is, the idea of this being mixed-use with office isn’t going away.

I’d forgotten about CCCP’s potential role in these deals, their designs, their dimensions, their constraints, their delays, their failures to materialize,  their sketchy economics for taxpayers.

If anyone is in touch with Charlotte Squawks, can you consider proposing a skit about a day in the life of the CCCP, called “Cabal without a Cause?”

Edited August 16, 2023 by RANYC

[CLT Development]

4 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Anyway. One of y’all should run for office lol. I get it, “oh we’re powerless council members”. I don’t care. Be a loud voice…

I am putting together an exploratory committee and intend to run for District 1 in 2025. I'd like to finish off my appointment as a Charlotte-Mecklenburg Planning Commissioner first and really learn the ropes, make the contacts, and continue to make friends in government. The current and incoming city council has enough rope to, well you know the expression, and I hope during their full two-year term we can figure out a smart strategy to bring back policy that encourages private investment in our city, while incentivizing infrastructural improvement in the areas that development touches. I would also look to pilot a oversight committee of all public-private partnerships, as well as all Municipal Service District agreements.

Edited August 16, 2023 by CLT Development

[RANYC]

33 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

I am putting together an exploratory committee and intend to run for District 1 in 2025. I'd like to finish off my appointment as a Charlotte-Mecklenburg Planning Commissioner first and really learn the ropes, make the contacts, and continue to make friends in government. The current and incoming city council has enough rope to, well you know the expression, and I hope during their full two-year term we can figure out a smart strategy to bring back policy that encourages private investment in our city, while incentivizing infrastructural improvement in the areas that development touches. I would also look to pilot a oversight committee of all public-private partnerships, as well as all Municipal Service District agreements.

You've got enough recognition to go for at-large.  If Ben Copeland can do it, surely you can.  The pool of contenders for the at-large seats is dismal, tbh. 

By 2025, however, the great behemoth of public-private partnerships will have been executed I imagine, that being the stadium replacement or renovation.  Your oversight pilot is needed now.  I suppose one would distinguish deals like the Pearl, Stadium, even Housing Trust Fund contributions from master development agreements like Brooklyn Village and 7th & Tryon?

Edited August 16, 2023 by RANYC

[CLT Development]

32 minutes ago, RANYC said:

You've got enough recognition to go for at-large.  If Ben Copeland can do it, surely you can.  The pool of contenders for the at-large seats is dismal, tbh. 

By 2025, however, the great behemoth of public-private partnerships will have been executed I imagine, that being the stadium replacement or renovation.  Your oversight pilot is needed now.  I suppose one would distinguish deals like the Pearl, Stadium, even Housing Trust Fund contributions from master development agreements like Brooklyn Village and 7th & Tryon?

I had lunch with Ben this week, good kid, some great ideas with Community Land Trusts, but he will have a hard time since he did not get BPC backing. I think I'll fare better than him, but you never know. 

I'm working to implement those oversight committees within the planning commission in the interim. I push back on the Housing Trust Fund at every meeting because usually the contribution is $150,000 which equates to maybe MAYBE a studio apartment. I also make sure to call out that CATS does not show up to a single meeting, and will continue calling out their lack of attendance in perpetuity until it stops happening. 

My "in the interim I hope that..." line was in reference to us behind the scenes crafting a policy that a few people can join up and campaign on.

Oh and side note I know the guy who writes Charlotte Squawks pretty well, I'll let him know about the Michale Smith song!

Edited August 16, 2023 by CLT Development

[RANYC]

27 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

I had lunch with Ben this week, good kid, some great ideas with Community Land Trusts, but he will have a hard time since he did not get BPC backing. I think I'll fare better than him, but you never know. 

I'm working to implement those oversight committees within the planning commission in the interim. I push back on the Housing Trust Fund at every meeting because usually the contribution is $150,000 which equates to maybe MAYBE a studio apartment. I also make sure to call out that CATS does not show up to a single meeting, and will continue calling out their lack of attendance in perpetuity until it stops happening. 

My "in the interim I hope that..." line was in reference to us behind the scenes crafting a policy that a few people can join up and campaign on.

Oh and side note I know the guy who writes Charlotte Squawks pretty well, I'll let him know about the Michale Smith song!

As long as turnouts stay sub-20%, BPC is a factor even if a hack organization.  I mean, Patrick Cannon over Egleston tells you all you need to know about its one-dimensionality. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by RANYC

[15895]

1 hour ago, CLT Development said:

I am putting together an exploratory committee and intend to run for District 1 in 2025. I'd like to finish off my appointment as a Charlotte-Mecklenburg Planning Commissioner first and really learn the ropes, make the contacts, and continue to make friends in government. The current and incoming city council has enough rope to, well you know the expression, and I hope during their full two-year term we can figure out a smart strategy to bring back policy that encourages private investment in our city, while incentivizing infrastructural improvement in the areas that development touches. I would also look to pilot an oversight committee of all public-private partnerships, as well as all Municipal Service District agreements.

Nice! 

[Rufus]

Re: the Michael Smith of it all

CCCP is your typical business improvement district, I guess, so it makes sense that they would push for office development. In BID world, residential is great, but not nearly as valuable as commercial, especially large office. There are certain limits to how the additional tax assessment is carried out on residential properties, especially rentals. Office development brings in the big bucks for companies like CCCP. 

[RANYC]

48 minutes ago, Rufus said:

Re: the Michael Smith of it all

CCCP is your typical business improvement district, I guess, so it makes sense that they would push for office development. In BID world, residential is great, but not nearly as valuable as commercial, especially large office. There are certain limits to how the additional tax assessment is carried out on residential properties, especially rentals. Office development brings in the big bucks for companies like CCCP. 

Michael Smith has a heap of projects now: 

• The rail trail pedestrian bridge is CCCP's and was characterized as "long-delayed" back in 2019.  Now. it's referred to as "sucker's ambition."
• Hugh McColl park sort of came out of nowhere and was demolished before a replacement was designed, and considering how long the rail trail pedestrian bridge is taking, Hugh isn't holding his breath
• CCCP has supposedly launched a "design contest" for office conversions in Uptown, or what I like to call "Class B Folly Contest"
• Now a 7th and Tryon redevelopment resuscitation

Edited August 17, 2023 by RANYC

[CLT Development]

9 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Michael Smith has a heap of projects now: 

• The rail trail pedestrian bridge is CCCP's and was characterized as "long-delayed" back in 2019.  Now. it's referred to as "sucker's ambition."
• Hugh McColl park sort of came out of nowhere and was demolished before a replacement was designed, and considering how long the rail trail pedestrian bridge is taking, Hugh isn't holding his breath
• CCCP has supposedly launched a "design contest" for office conversions in Uptown, or what I like to call "Class B Folly Contest"
• Now a 7th and Tryon redevelopment resuscitation

I think you and I would have a hoot grabbing drinks.

[turbocraig]

1 hour ago, CLT Development said:

I think you and I would have a hoot grabbing drinks.

Somebody who’s a lot smarter than me should write an Op-ed in the O about this subject. 

[atlrvr]

Cliff notes version is this:

Private investors/developers are efficient because failure to generate a positive return is existential risk to survival (loss of their own capital, or investors lose confidence in giving them future capital)

Public entities have no such concerns.  Positive returns are aspirational.  Placating perceived public wish-lists has higher value.  Failure is not existential crises, because ability to tax (pay for failures) is a congressionally guaranteed right.

[CLT Development]

9 hours ago, turbocraig said:

Somebody who’s a lot smarter than me should write an Op-ed in the O about this subject. 

I found a new outlet for Op-Eds and have some in the hopper, including one specifically on the failure of Public-Private Partnerships in Charlotte

Edited August 17, 2023 by CLT Development

[Firejudyrose]

[SydneyCarton]

[KJHburg]

walked by the old Main Library site today and it is coming down nicely can't wait for the new beautiful library to rise here. 

New Main Library | Charlotte Mecklenburg Library (cmlibrary.org)

[15895]

Our finest contributor (CLT Dev) on Twitter shared the Axios article on  what happened with 7th & Tryon:
 

In a June 20 letter obtained by Axios, Metropolitan Partnership CEO Cary Euwer told county manager Dena Diorio that the “very complex” project faced several roadblocks. Among them, he listed, were “the unexpected exit of Truist as the anchor for the project, the COVID-19 pandemic and its unfolding impacts on the market for office space.”

• Truist seriously considered Seventh and Tryon several years ago as a potential site for its Innovation and Technology Center. A Mecklenburg County official says it was their understanding the developer held a lease for Truist to occupy the office tower. 
• Instead, Truist built the 100,000-square-foot facility inside its corporate office at 214 North Tryon, formerly called the Hearst Tower.

https://charlotte.axios.com/342460/seventh-and-tryon-truist-metropolitan-partnership-mecklenburg-county-library-north/

Edited October 25, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[KJHburg]

The Main Library is GONE and it weird to see the side of Spirit Square aka old 1st Baptist Church first time in my lifetime seeing that.  From the ashes and rubble will rise a beautiful new library.  Can not wait! 

[DJ8hep]

4 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

The Main Library is GONE and it weird to see the side of Spirit Square aka old 1st Baptist Church first time in my lifetime seeing that.  From the ashes and rubble will rise a beautiful new library.  Can not wait! 

I’m really excited to see this go up too!

[carolinaboy]

3 hours ago, KJHburg said:

The Main Library is GONE and it weird to see the side of Spirit Square aka old 1st Baptist Church first time in my lifetime seeing that.  From the ashes and rubble will rise a beautiful new library.  Can not wait! 

Is that a crane base in the left of the last photo? If so, add it to the list.

[KJHburg]

6 minutes ago, carolinaboy said:

Is that a crane base in the left of the last photo? If so, add it to the list.

that I dont know as I didnt walk all the way down there could be maybe someone can walk by it.  

[Blakcatfan]

Whatever it is, it's visible in the earlier pictures before the structure was knocked down.  

[DMann]

Not a crane base, way too small.  It was part of a sign for the library.

[ertley]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:36 PM, KJHburg said:

I am really happy with the design for the new library, so I'm not seriously criticizing it or complaining here, but seeing how lovely this side of the old church is, I wish that the new library left even more of the facade visible. But I'm not complaining--it's still largely going to be seen.

[DMann]

And here is the other side of Spirit Square!  Demo has begun