Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[monsoon]

It's the same model. You can download a document from the FTA website with the 9,100 figure here.(MS Word) The 2025 forecast is listed as 17,900 riders. Perhaps the 17,900 changed between 2003 and 2007 to the 18,500 figure, but the way the 9100 has been quoted several times, it is likely that number has remained constant. The most likely reason the out year figure jumped has been the FTA allowing the inclusion of realized development in the corridor. ....

I am not sure where I got the 18,500 from, but you are correct the FFGA that you posted and which I have seen before says 9,100 opening day. In regards to estimates I am sure that you will also note that CATS ended up spending $100M more to build the line that what was listed in that document. (when you consider they were supposed to spend $30M less).

Estimates it seems are faulty all around. I do think that ridership numbers won't be conclusive until after the first year is up or at least for the first 6 months. The thing that concerns me about LYNX is that it's two primary types are riders are those that seek to avoid parking downtown and those who have been forced to ride it because the bus routes were changed so this is the only way that you can make a connection on a number of routes. It seems to have very little local ridership which is what one hopes Light Rail should do.

[MZT]

The thing that concerns me about LYNX is that it's two primary types are riders are those that seek to avoid parking downtown and those who have been forced to ride it because the bus routes were changed

Casual observation for me has been that the inner-ring park and rides are lightly used. The 485 and Sharon West stops have lots of cars, which indicates to me that LYNX appeals to commuters more than people in town. Even CATS has admitted they over estimated the necessary size of the inner-ring park and rides.

Some co-workers have asked me about the train, but they're still driving. It seems to be that you need to already be a 485 or 77 commuter to want to "avoid traffic" or "avoid paying parking fees". I guess gasoline isn't expensive enough yet for people in town to switch en masse from driving.

Edited March 24, 2008 by MZT

[grodney]

CATS has admitted the Feb numbers were helped by the one-time ACC event a couple of weeks ago where its estimated that amounted to 80,000 rides in total.

As already pointed out, it was CIAA in Feb, and ACC in March. But there's also a clarification needed in the numbers. (I'm not saying you have it wrong (I can't tell from your wording), I'm just clarifying for the readers.)

According to this article:

http://www.charlotte.com/112/story/541612.html

there were 80,000 total rides in a 6-day span during the CIAA. It does *not* say that the CIAA itself accounted for 80,000 rides.

Similarly, it says the estimate for the 4 days during the ACC was 90,000 *total* ridership. Again, *not* just for the ACC itself.

Also, note that the daily ridership numbers are for *weekdays*. I'm assuming, but it doesn't say, that the CIAA and ACC numbers include weekday *and* weekend numbers. In other words, only a portion (the weekday portion) of the tournament bump would be included in the weekday ridership averages.

[sax184]

The local trips along the line will pick up as more development comes in and the diversity of goods and services along the line increases. If the park-and-ride lots remain underused, over time CATS may be able to sell them off for redevelopment to the private sector or work in public-private partnerships.

My key point remains that the FTA process CONSISTENTLY under-estimates light rail ridership, and they apply wildly low ridership estimates when scoring the projects. This should be of concern to people in Charlotte as the Feds say other projects "just miss" being viable.

[monsoon]

.....

My key point remains that the FTA process CONSISTENTLY under-estimates light rail ridership, and they apply wildly low ridership estimates when scoring the projects. This should be of concern to people in Charlotte as the Feds say other projects "just miss" being viable.

It is a concern as the South LRT would not be approved with the new tougher guidelines that are in effect now.

[AuLukey]

Well, here's hoping that the "success" of the Blue Line in relation to early predictions will cause the FTA to more accurately project the ridership for the NE line. Otherwise me may have an issue on our hands. Also, we have the NCAA Regionals coming to uptown this weekend to help out ridership numbers a bit more.

[monsoon]

It's a combination of Ridership VS Costs. CATS also has to do a better job of keeping the cost down in order to qualify.

[staffer]

So special event ridership shouldn't count? The way I look at it, it's still a few thousand more cars that are not on the road as a result, however you want to parse it. Whadaya know... if you place an arena next to a transit stop with pricey parking, lots of people will use transit instead of driving. Amazing how that works.

The 9100 was the opening year ridership prediction, so regardless of what the future year figure was, it's clear that the Blue Line has beaten probably everyone's expectations, and there's no way that can be spun otherwise. I'm sure that the NE extension will fuel even greater increases on the South Corridor once that is open by 2013-14.

One of the biggest transportation bottlenecks relates to special events -- concerts, baseball, football, basketball, hockey, whatever. To the extent that transit gives easier access to these events, isn't that congestion relief at its best? What is the other solution (besides moving the Hornets out of town)?

[Justadude]

The local trips along the line will pick up as more development comes in and the diversity of goods and services along the line increases.

I hope that the public will have enough patience to allow this process to take place. Right now, we're seeing high ridership toward the ends of the line, with lower activity in the middle. It's not that big a surprise when you consider the development patterns in each of those areas. At some point the land values along the line will force denser development around the middle stations, and we'll see their use pick up as a result. This was the plan from Day 1 and there's no reason right now to think it won't work.

[Spartan]

The thing that concerns me about LYNX is that it's two primary types are riders are those that seek to avoid parking downtown and those who have been forced to ride it because the bus routes were changed so this is the only way that you can make a connection on a number of routes. It seems to have very little local ridership which is what one hopes Light Rail should do.

You can't say that for certain until an origin-destination study has been done for passengers on the Lynx. I think there is more local travel than we expect given that there is a perception of a lack of things to go to.

[Andyc545]

The Observer is reporting that the Blue Line is officially taking credit cards now. Took long enough .

[monsoon]

You can't say that.....

I just did.

[HopHead]

The Observer is reporting that the Blue Line is officially taking credit cards now. Took long enough .

Yea, no kidding... I'll definitely try that out tomorrow night when I head uptown...

[jednc]

I used the Credit Card function today when I rode the train. I chose the express option for a one way ticket but when I inserted my card nothing happened. It asked me to deposit $1.30. I eventually canceled the transaction. I decided to try the standard one way choice and after I selected one adult, the Credit Card option appeared on the screen. From there it worked great. It took the card, printed the ticket and then printed a receipt. I don't understand why they don't let you have the option of using a CC when you choose the express option of a one way ticket. I wonder if it's just something they didn't think of, or if it's meant to be that way???

Either way...glad to be able to now use a DC or CC. All I had on hand today was a $20 bill and I was dreading all those coins in change.

[Spartan]

I heard that they do NOT take debit cards YET.

[Raintree21]

I heard that they do NOT take debit cards YET.

According to the CATS press release:

"The TVMs only take credit cards at this time. If your debit card has the MasterCard or Visa logo, customers can use it as a credit card at the TVMs. The debit feature will be available later this year."

[New Name]

According to the CATS press release:

"The TVMs only take credit cards at this time. If your debit card has the MasterCard or Visa logo, customers can use it as a credit card at the TVMs. The debit feature will be available later this year."

Is there anyone out there that does not have a Mastercard or Visa logo on their debit card?

[fulcrumsf]

Is there anyone out there that does not have a Mastercard or Visa logo on their debit card?

I actually know people that surprisingly do not have a Visa or Mastercard logo, but they are stuck in the old days and have just recently gotten cell phones.

[monsoon]

Actually I was a bit surprised the machines don't take Amex. Lots and lots of people with corporate expense accounts use Amex and in my own case I use a freebie with a rebate from Costco. Seems like a big oversight.

[davidclt]

I actually know people that surprisingly do not have a Visa or Mastercard logo, but they are stuck in the old days and have just recently gotten cell phones.

I don't have a debit card by choice. Sure, most banks will supposedly replace any funds from your checking account through debit card fraud but I'm not sure I really believe it would happen as easily as they say. Also, why not ride the bank's money for a few days rather than parting with my own?

Now to get back on topic so the moderators don't delete my post . . . the TVM transactions do seem to be slightly faster when using credit even though the machines won't take it with the quick ticket. I do like the round trip ticket option though and it works well for the bus transfers in both directions as well!

[dubone]

Most people with Amex or Discover also have a Visa or MC. I think that there are higher costs with also accepting Amex and Discover, without providing that much added convenience for their consumer. I think a lot of companies have moved away from Amex for expenses, including BofA and Wachovia, and even if they have that, it isn't not that big of a deal to enter an out of pocket expense (especially a low number like a Lynx pass).

I absolutely don't think it is a big deal that they don't take Debit cards that aren't on Visa or Mastercard. Even most credit unions use that standard these days.

International travelers might be the main exception to the above.

[Neo]

Actually I was a bit surprised the machines don't take Amex. Lots and lots of people with corporate expense accounts use Amex and in my own case I use a freebie with a rebate from Costco. Seems like a big oversight.

I really don't see it as an oversight. I understand many corporate expense cards are American Express but honestly, how many of those do you expect will take LYNX. Perhaps if it were connected to the airport you may see a few, but I really don't see it as a big deal. Odds are you have something with a Visa or Mastercard logo on it. In my experience, most individuals prefer the freebie Visa or Mastercard pieces of plastic over American Express to keep from having to pay their high fees. You mentioned that you have an Amex card with Costco...interesting since the last time I was there they wouldn't let me use my Visa card to check out, now THAT is an oversight.

I can't imagine it being a big issue for 99.9% of the folks riding LYNX.

[monsoon]

Amex does charge more than MC or Visa, but the costs, IMO are far less than taking the equivalent amount in cash as presumably a lot of those lost transactions will be done in cash which is far far more expensive. I do take note that even Walmart, Harris Teeter, BiLo, almost any restaurant, and every gas station will take Amex in their machines for this very reason. Given the number of corporate types that might travel downtown, visitors who want to charge things, etc, I don't understand why they left this out.

[tozmervo]

I don't even know anyone with an amex. Also, the article stated that other cards would be available in the fall (although it didn't specify which ones)

[HopHead]

I think not taking an AMEX card is a non-issue. AMEX is my primary card, mainly b/c you have to pay it off every month, but we're talking about a $1.30 here. If someone doesn't have $1.30 in their pocket or available through their VISA/MC checkcard, then that's their own problem. And for business people that can expense it, you can do so as long as you keep your receipt or ticket. Just my two cents