The Montgomery Building

[NotNotSanti]

2 hours ago, westsider28 said:

More info in this H-J article about possible plans for an e-sports arena.  Conventions Sports and Leisure International (CSL) is now compiling the public survey results.  OneSpartanburg tourism chief says the feedback he's heard so far "has been very supportive" which I think is a stretch, based on what I've seen here and on social media.  Mostly negative with some neutral is the feedback I've seen.  Seems a bit like the decision has already been made by the "powers that be" and the public survey is just theater (pardon the pun).

They do mention now it will be flexible-use, with more than just gaming: "The proposed facility would be one of the premier esports facilities in the U.S., but would also have the ability to host concerts, meetings, sporting events, movies and much more. It would also be a facility with numerous opportunities for locals to participate, including area high schools and universities."  That makes me a bit more supportive of the idea.

The article also mentions the esports club at USC Upstate, but like all colleges, they have their own facility on-campus.  So I don't see why students would go all the way to the Carolina Theater to game when they have a great facility steps away.  But anyway, if the developers can get financing for this idea, more power to them.  I'd love to see the theater renovated and back in use.

I'm in favor, especially seeing that it will be flexible-use. Even having it host primarily eSports events would still be consistent with its historic DNA, which has always been entertainment, in one fashion or another. Plus, with the Chapman Cultural Center now being literally within the same block, it'd be redundant to have it be used as a theater. Financially, I don't see how it would be a feasible endeavor to restore and keep the place running. 

I, for one, hope this helps renovate this almost forgotten space in Spartanburg. I understand the hesitation that others have towards this, but I wonder if it doesn't derive mainly from stereotypes against e-sports as a whole. Granted, the place has excellent acoustics, which perhaps gaming in itself can't capitalize on as much as the arts, but seeing that it will be able to be used for concerts, now that to me is a moot point. 

Something to take into consideration is how important this would be tourism wise. It is a rapidly growing industry. With the Fairfield Inn still being planned for the property directly to the right, and with St. John Street Garage being right there as well, I think this will work very, very well in getting people to come for a night or two and shop around town. It's a win no matter how I look at it... with my limited perspective and biases, of course. I'm also a gamer, after all!

[roads-scholar]

2 hours ago, Santi said:

I'm in favor, especially seeing that it will be flexible-use. Even having it host primarily eSports events would still be consistent with its historic DNA, which has always been entertainment, in one fashion or another. Plus, with the Chapman Cultural Center now being literally within the same block, it'd be redundant to have it be used as a theater. Financially, I don't see how it would be a feasible endeavor to restore and keep the place running. 

I, for one, hope this helps renovate this almost forgotten space in Spartanburg. I understand the hesitation that others have towards this, but I wonder if it doesn't derive mainly from stereotypes against e-sports as a whole. Granted, the place has excellent acoustics, which perhaps gaming in itself can't capitalize on as much as the arts, but seeing that it will be able to be used for concerts, now that to me is a moot point. 

Something to take into consideration is how important this would be tourism wise. It is a rapidly growing industry. With the Fairfield Inn still being planned for the property directly to the right, and with St. John Street Garage being right there as well, I think this will work very, very well in getting people to come for a night or two and shop around town. It's a win no matter how I look at it... with my limited perspective and biases, of course. I'm also a gamer, after all!

After reading about CSL, it's business model and leadership, my opinion regarding this project is beginning to change.  I'd still prefer a performance venue but this company seems to have the bona fides to pull this off and do it well.  

[NotNotSanti]

Rumor mill has it that it would take $10M to renovate the theater towards this end. -If- true, we'll see if the endeavor remains feasible!

[Spartan]

Honestly, we should take any investment that brings more people into downtown as a good sign. More people = more $ being spent = more activity, and the cycle continues. 

[MidtownSpartanburg]

I heard today that a speakeasy may be opening in a space that is below the Montgomery building but accessed from an area by the future hotel site behind it on St. John. Does anyone have more details? 

[westsider28]

I took a look through the (dirty) windows of the mystery basement space beneath the MB.  The door leads to a landing with more stairs going down ~10 feet to a very tall space.  There appears to be industrial artwork already in place, made from remnants of boiler room machinery.  It's really cool-looking.  Could be one of the most unique spaces in the Upstate.  Hope we hear what's going in there soon.

[westsider28]

Survey results from 350 respondents about a possible e-sports venue in the Carolina Theater are as you might expect: divided clearly along generational lines.  Most area high school students (~74%) were interested in an e-sports facility, while adults were much less enthused (~31% in favor).  It's unclear what the next steps in the project will be.  MB owner James Bakker declined to say whether the results indicate enough public support and said, "we are continuing to work through the process of gathering support for the project."

[camtology]

On 2/13/2023 at 11:51 AM, westsider28 said:

Survey results from 350 respondents about a possible e-sports venue in the Carolina Theater are as you might expect: divided clearly along generational lines.  Most area high school students (~74%) were interested in an e-sports facility, while adults were much less enthused (~31% in favor).  It's unclear what the next steps in the project will be.  MB owner James Bakker declined to say whether the results indicate enough public support and said, "we are continuing to work through the process of gathering support for the project."

I'm most interested in how this arena could be made into something that hosts regular events maybe either weekly or a few times a month.  I know this place would hold big events and bring a lot of people into the downtown area during those events but I want the theater to be something used as regularly as it was back when it was operational last century

[Sparkleman]

I just can't see it being used as a regular movie theater in a time when theaters aren't nearly as popular as they used to be post pandemic. I love movies and going to see them out regardless of what they cost but something happened to me after the pandemic. I saw Top Gun Maverick in NYC of all places with some friends but that has been it in the last 1 1/2 years. And its not just me as a lot of my friends are the same way. The fact that so many open via streaming I think we will see more theaters going away in the future.

[sptgguy]

It would be interesting to see it set up as a multi purpose space. Drop down screen for movies (show older movies that are just better on the big screen etc) Decent sized performance space for smaller bands/groups. Partner with Chapman Cultural center/Childrens Theater/Spartanburg Community Theater to put on perofrmances etc.  

[djh1963]

14 hours ago, sptgguy said:

It would be interesting to see it set up as a multi purpose space. Drop down screen for movies (show older movies that are just better on the big screen etc) Decent sized performance space for smaller bands/groups. Partner with Chapman Cultural center/Childrens Theater/Spartanburg Community Theater to put on perofrmances etc.  

Unfortunately, there is no wing space on the stage so it would be difficult to do plays there but it would be a great music venue.

 

.

[Spartan]

These old style theaters can work as movie theaters/playhouses, but IMO the thing that is needed to make it truly successful is a more walkable Church St. We need to remove lanes on Church to make it a more enjoyable walk, and let the through-traffic take other routes around downtown.

[Spartanburg Dude]

11 hours ago, Spartan said:

These old style theaters can work as movie theaters/playhouses, but IMO the thing that is needed to make it truly successful is a more walkable Church St. We need to remove lanes on Church to make it a more enjoyable walk, and let the through-traffic take other routes around downtown.

A narrow Church street would be fantastic!

[SpartanBorn&Raised]

10 hours ago, Spartanburg Dude said:

A narrow Church street would be fantastic!

I concur with that!  Something else that recently dawned on me.  Spartanburg needs more tall buildings (I know, the market needs to be there with more white-collar jobs coming).  I'm realizing that a Downtown with more buildings around it feels more intimate, comforting to visit and ironically more inviting/welcoming.  I'm not the only one who thinks this, am I?  Albeit keep the streets and buildings tree-lined (not like Columbia, which I love for its walkability among other things but there is way too much exposed sky there).

[Spartan]

1 hour ago, SpartanBorn&Raised said:

I concur with that!  Something else that recently dawned on me.  Spartanburg needs more tall buildings (I know, the market needs to be there with more white-collar jobs coming).  I'm realizing that a Downtown with more buildings around it feels more intimate, comforting to visit and ironically more inviting/welcoming.  I'm not the only one who thinks this, am I?  Albeit keep the streets and buildings tree-lined (not like Columbia, which I love for its walkability among other things but there is way too much exposed sky there).

I agree it would be fun to see more, taller buildings - but I'll always point out that the "vertical" feel of larger cities can be achieved even with out them. What you're looking for is more buildings that are right up to the edge of the street instead of set back behind a parking lot. Tall buildings in and of themselves do not make a city. Designing cities for people and not their cars will always make places more attractive, higher value, and make people want to spend time there, thus increasing demand for buildings, restaurants, retail, office workers, etc. It's all builds on itself. 

[Spartanburg Dude]

22 hours ago, Spartan said:

I agree it would be fun to see more, taller buildings - but I'll always point out that the "vertical" feel of larger cities can be achieved even with out them. What you're looking for is more buildings that are right up to the edge of the street instead of set back behind a parking lot. Tall buildings in and of themselves do not make a city. Designing cities for people and not their cars will always make places more attractive, higher value, and make people want to spend time there, thus increasing demand for buildings, restaurants, retail, office workers, etc. It's all builds on itself. 

This right here!

[camtology]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:15 AM, SpartanBorn&Raised said:

I concur with that!  Something else that recently dawned on me.  Spartanburg needs more tall buildings (I know, the market needs to be there with more white-collar jobs coming).  I'm realizing that a Downtown with more buildings around it feels more intimate, comforting to visit and ironically more inviting/welcoming.  I'm not the only one who thinks this, am I?  Albeit keep the streets and buildings tree-lined (not like Columbia, which I love for its walkability among other things but there is way too much exposed sky there).

I personally feel like Church Street's wideness is what has been hindering a lot of the businesses along the road. Sidewall was much less accusable than any other pizza place in town, and it kinda divides the main street section in downtown into two with an intersection serving as a huge gap between what should be one fluid environment. bringing the street to just two or three lanes instead of five would totally change how downtown is perceived and it would make it  downtown feel much more human if the project could ever be passed

[Sparkleman]

We need some of you guys on the DRB or planning boards.

[sptgguy]

2 hours ago, camtology said:

I personally feel like Church Street's wideness is what has been hindering a lot of the businesses along the road. Sidewall was much less accusable than any other pizza place in town, and it kinda divides the main street section in downtown into two with an intersection serving as a huge gap between what should be one fluid environment. bringing the street to just two or three lanes instead of five would totally change how downtown is perceived and it would make it  downtown feel much more human if the project could ever be passed

The state really seems to dislike road diets unless the city/country put up a fight. I think planted medians along sections would help reduce the impact of how big the road is. 

[westsider28]

I'm a huge road-diet advocate and I'd love to see Church Street narrowed, but it seems unlikely within our lifetimes.  It's pretty much the only direct North-South route east of I-26.  It connects Boiling Springs and Roebuck, two fast-growing areas.  It's heavily-traveled through downtown every weekday evening (and morning, probably).  Short of a bypass loop and/or massive transit expansion, I see no scenario where it can be narrowed.  There aren't really any existing reasonable alternative routes.

I think our best bet is stuff like @sptgguysuggested.  In addition to landscaped medians, I'd like to see leading pedestrian signals (throughout downtown actually) and no right-on-red at intersections.  We need more street trees, too (which SCDOT hates).  At least any new developments along the corridor downtown will be required to have wide sidewalks.

To bring it back to the Montgomery Building, it was a unique situation with an existing building being boxed-in, whereas a new building would have wider sidewalks.  I wonder if the St John sidewalk could be widened by shifting St John a few feet south when the HBJ lot gets developed?

[camtology]

18 hours ago, westsider28 said:

I'm a huge road-diet advocate and I'd love to see Church Street narrowed, but it seems unlikely within our lifetimes.  It's pretty much the only direct North-South route east of I-26.  It connects Boiling Springs and Roebuck, two fast-growing areas.  It's heavily-traveled through downtown every weekday evening (and morning, probably).  Short of a bypass loop and/or massive transit expansion, I see no scenario where it can be narrowed.  There aren't really any existing reasonable alternative routes.

I think our best bet is stuff like @sptgguysuggested.  In addition to landscaped medians, I'd like to see leading pedestrian signals (throughout downtown actually) and no right-on-red at intersections.  We need more street trees, too (which SCDOT hates).  At least any new developments along the corridor downtown will be required to have wide sidewalks.

To bring it back to the Montgomery Building, it was a unique situation with an existing building being boxed-in, whereas a new building would have wider sidewalks.  I wonder if the St John sidewalk could be widened by shifting St John a few feet south when the HBJ lot gets developed?

I think an evolution in transportation is ripe to happen in the next decade, Spartanburg seems to somewhat understand this with the current transportation commission that I believe is still in the research phase. I would love to see a transition of not only downtown but all of Spartanburg away from cars and towards other modes of transportation like walking and improved public transit. Data proves that more options of transportation helps everyone, including those that use cars that would then have to compete with less drivers.  maybe it would be best as a state wide project but with the possibility of non-car transit available maybe a future SCDOT would be more open to letting the city remove lanes from major roadways

[spartanburgh]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:15 AM, SpartanBorn&Raised said:

I concur with that!  Something else that recently dawned on me.  Spartanburg needs more tall buildings (I know, the market needs to be there with more white-collar jobs coming).  I'm realizing that a Downtown with more buildings around it feels more intimate, comforting to visit and ironically more inviting/welcoming.  I'm not the only one who thinks this, am I?  Albeit keep the streets and buildings tree-lined (not like Columbia, which I love for its walkability among other things but there is way too much exposed sky there).

I agree! Anytime I visit a new City, the tall buildings are what I look for. I think that is what gives a City its feel of significance. Of course, not 

all Cities need tall buildings to give a feel of importance, but it sure helps.

[westsider28]

Looks like the former Sidewall space is being taken by Internal Affairs, a "Fine Art Gallery & Venue".  A bit disappointing in such a prime location, IMO. 

[SpartanBorn&Raised]

16 hours ago, spartanburgh said:

I agree! Anytime I visit a new City, the tall buildings are what I look for. I think that is what gives a City its feel of significance. Of course, not 

all Cities need tall buildings to give a feel of importance, but it sure helps.

Charleston is an example and exception for sure.

[sptgguy]

So the city needs to look at its codes and mandate that parking lots go in the back and buildings be closer to the streets. Its something that they should have done long ago. It will up the feeling of density. Toss in landscaped medians and more sidewalk landscaping...it would create a better feeling overall.