levarforever

Yeah, I know it might be a while before development around the light rail stations start booming, like you said 2 to 3 years after light rail is built...but they should definitely start now. It would be nice to see Norfolk develop transit villages like they've done in Arlington. Norfolk should come up with a specific development plan for the light rail stations in the lower density areas, instead of anticipating what may be developed there.

Here's a VA Pilot article concerning Norfolk's recent demolition of historic buildings. It should spark an interesting conversation here. Credibility demolished along with Norfolk storefront

Too bad I didn't get to see the light rail segment on channel 48. Did they say anything about future expansions to the Navy Base or ODU?...Just curious.

The next light rail expansion...what will it be? Any guesses? I know it's too early to speculate, but I guess I'm just curious.

Here's an article from Portfolio Weekly discussing the recent successes of HRT, including light rail. I think you'll find all this news very promising for us when you put it all together. Three Cheers for HRT

Has anyone read this blog on VA-Pilot yet? It's kind of funny in it's sarcasm. It pretty much expresses the same sentiment most of us on urbanplanet have. Here's a link incase you want to comment: Light rail skeptics, listen u SO THE WRITER OF SATURDAY'S LETTER about light rail believes it can't succeed because people in this day and age won't walk a few blocks to a station in return for a break from stop-and-go traffic. Just like when others said MacArthur Center would be a flop; that no one could be enticed to come to Granby Street at night; no one would want to live in a downtown Norfolk apartment; and that the Tides' ballpark would be better off built in the suburbs. Yes, let's continue to invest in the accoutrements of "personal transportation." The automobile

This story is on HRT's website too. ] Micheal Townes named chairman of APTA

Here's a Virginian-Pilot article anouncing Micheal Townes has been named the American Public Transit Association (APTA) chairman. Respectively, Norfolk City Councilman W. Randy Wright will head the APTA Transit Board Members Committee. It could have some very promising implications for transportation in Hampton Roads. I posted this in the Off-Topic thread as well, because it could pertain to both. HRT president named chairman of national transit group

Actually, I've seen old houses being renovated in Park Place...Victorian, Arts and Crafts style, etc. I know what you mean about the new construction on the blocks that have been cleared, which I don't really like because the houses they put in their place don't do the historical integrity of Park Place any justice. For example, I've lived in Park Place for years, on 35th street to be exact, where you can see those new vynill houses on Newport Avenue, (34th and 35th among other places) dubbed "Park Place Central" or something like that. They look too assembly-line for my tastes and as if they can be picked apart with my bare hands. The older, and brick houses, I might add, appear sturdier and not so artificial. There isn't a wide spread initiative to renovate the houses in Park Place that I know of, but there are some private investors doing so. Sure the process is slow, but I've seen it happen enough to think that there is a burgeoning mixed income community. Not by design of coures, because Park Place wasn't originally concieved for that purpose. There was a young couple that moved into one of the old houses down the street from me and across from them a middle class family, one of them being someone I knew from Granby high school. I even lived next door to the business of a fairly well known Norfolk figure, who shall remain nameless. Believe it or not there are people of middle income sprinkled around Park Place. It just tends to go unnoticed because of Park Place's negative reputation. Now whether the new development or renovations are an attempt to weed out the unproductive citizens intentionally...I wish I could read minds, but I can't say for sure. It could happen once the middle class become the overwhelming majority there, but that's speculative at this point. As it stands now, I think Park Place can capitalize on it's present mix of income status. As for the apartments there, atleast they're fixing them up instead of letting them go to waste. I'm not sure which one's in particular you're talking about not having a/c. I'll have to do some research on that. Just curious...What do you think about the three newly renovated apartment buildings on 36th street? I think they're called Kensington Condominiums.

Just to add...without clogging up the traffic ... For a mixed use community in St. Paul's quadrant to work, meaning one that includes middle-income and affordable housing, it is important to attract the young professionals, college students, and the like or as some would call them, "yuppies". It's that particular group of the middle-class that, I believe, is more open-minded to the sentiments and desires of those who live on the lower end of the economic ladder. I find them more willing to interact and mingle with the low income demographic, even beyond racial lines. I think they are the future of Norfolk, in that they will defy old myths about low income residents and urban life in general. I mean no offense, but most of the phobias, real or imagined, about urban life are still held by the older, more conservative, suburb-loving crowd...and I'm saying this as someone who considers himself a young conservative...well reasonably conservative. Anyway, I find that for the most part, the young-professional is more open to diversity (racial, cultural, socio-economic, etc.), so I would urge the city of Norfolk to keep this in mind when redeveloping the Quadrant. If I'm not mistaken, much of downtown's continued success in the housing market is due to it's appeal to young professionals, whether that was intended or not. I mean, that's just what I hear nowadays. On that note, I'm not saying all the older middle class wouldn't be interested.

I believe the low income residents of the Quadrant can come out winners in future development. From what I understand, the city of Norfolk wants to achieve a mixed-use, transit oriented development...something along those lines. Usually, such developments include a mix of incomes as well as a mix of retail and office uses. Take Park Place for instance. In the past several years, I've noticed an influx of the middle-class into Park Place(the vast majority of them being young professionals who can't quite afford the more expensive housing) fixing up the old houses and apartment buildings. Now, you can see relatively expensive housing and affordable housing on the same street. I think the activity there is building up too. Recenly, there have been old apartment buildings from the early 1900s converted into what are called "affordable condos", which is ironic, because Park Place is generally regarded as a low income neighborhood that has wrestled with crime and blight for years. Here's a link to a Virginian-Pilot article from last year, addressing the same issue: Affordable Condos in Park Place. Things are changing there. And from what I can see it is, to some degree, a mixed income neighborhood. Certainly, it wasn't originally built for that purpose, but I think it reminds us that the same is possible for St. Paul's Quadrant.

Yes, I agree it should all be one master plan. That way, the design will be more uniform and appear to be purposeful. I'm anxious to see what Norfolk has in mind, if anything, so far. If Norfolk doesn't get this Quadrant redevelopment going soon, I plan to swamp the council with so many letters they'll have to use a leaf blower to get through city hall...lol.

It would be interesting to compare the negative reactions to light rail, to the negative reactions MacArthur Center recieved when it was in it's conceptual phase. I remember when the city hadn't even broken ground on Macarthur Center and so many people were livid about it and saying it would be a complete failure...tax burden, who's going to shop there...you know the usual. Just like now, you had detractors from outside of Norfolk railing against of things, a mall; even from outside of Virginia. That's the part that really perplexed me more than anything else. Again, you're seeing the same thing today against light rail. Bottom line, people's view of urban life and development needs to be updated and attitudes need to modernize, instead of resorting to tantrums everytime something has the potential to transform our comfort-cul de sac from mediocracy to something that stands out.

Here's an example of transit-oriented development (design) in Arlington. If Norfolk does the right thing with St. Paul's Quadrant and other areas, it could look something like this one day. Sorry if the picture is a bit pixelated, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

I've been coming across info on Arlington, VA and I hear it's the nation's leading example of transit oriented design and mixed use development and so on. And I was thinking to myself, "why can't Norfolk be like that"? 7 of Arlington's 11 metrorail stations have high density development around them. They call it following the "smart growth" philosophy. Actually there are several terms that pretty much mean the same thing. Anyway, I was thinking about moving up there, not just for the urban feel, but because they have more graphic design jobs up there. I think Norfolk could learn a lot from Arlington when it comes to mixed-use development in the Quadrant. I read something about Arlington getting rid of a lot of the sprawled areas and adhering to a more high-density approach, by building more row houses and other high density housing. Arlington also has made an effort provide more affordable housing. I think Norfolk can learn from that too.

My wish is that the city can get a concrete development project completed for light rail's operational debut in 2010. If it's going to take 5 years or more, I don't think I'll stick around and wait. All these delays could turn into a lasting blemish on downtown's success.

Well that kind of sounds promising. They seem to be following the New Urbanism philosophy. I can already picture the Quadrant completely redeveloped in my head, though I wonder how old I'll be when that happens...hopefully, still young enough to enjoy it when it comes to fruition.

Hey urbanlife. I'm right there with you. I was a bit conflicted at first, but I think you articulated what I wanted to say very well. But I'm thinking, the Quadrant should be a mix of office, retail, and civic uses, as well as a mix of incomes. That way, no one will feel isolated and there won't be a lot of socio-economic tensions. In the long run, having a community like that will stress cultural diversity and interaction...that is at least the hope.

I wonder if any developers are interested in the Quadrant. Does anybody know? Assuming some of the council is in talks with one already, I hope it's a developer that has an appreciation and experience with urban development...and a proven track record. We'd do better with someone from much larger and more successful urban areas outside of ours.

Most of what I'm reading in this thread is not very hopeful and rather disheartening. I guess I don't know what to do with information like this except prepare to leave this area, as I had planned at first, assuming that what has been projected here is true, as far as Norfolk not having any clear and reasonable plans for the Quadrant. My optimistic side tells me that the city council, under enough pressure, will make a smarter decision. Broad Creek is a good ways outside of downtown Norfolk; and we all know which one the city council cherishes the most. So, my hopeful side is saying that the meetings were just PR moves and that the council, for the most part, already have plans in the works that blend into downtown. I mean, that's what I'd like to think, considering the fact that I wasn't at the meeting to give a solid conjecture. But again, if all the negative projections from you guys come true, then I think I'll be leaving this area pretty soon, unless someone has some answers to how we can influence the city to make the right decision.

I would like to think that there is a balance that can be achieved by having a mixed-income residential development in the Quadrant out of respect to the residents in the public housing units while continuing the expansion of downtown, however, I see that having any low income housing in that area will stifle it's growth. Why stop the boom now when it has so much momentum? Let's keep the property values rising, I say. If they're going to provide low-income housing for the residents in the Quadrant, after uprooting them, they should provide it further away from downtown. I believe in mixed-income communities, but I don't think it's a helpful idea in that area. In anycase, I hope the council makes the right decision and fast, because I know it must be awkward having a view of Tidewater Gardens everyday, from a condo in the Rotunda. Besides, Tidewater Gardens is still a haven for crime. In the long run it's not going to help downtown's image. Progress shouldn't be rushed, but getting rid of the public housing there is waaaaay over due.

Here's an interesting article from the Virginian-Pilot. I hope this is a sign of good things to come. Norfolk eyes rebuilding plan for St. Pauls quadrant

You know, that is a really good point. I wonder how they're going to pull that one off.

Yeah, me too. I'm anxious to find out how it'll affect the housing and commercial density further out from downtown. I think that is just one of the benefits of light rail. Unfortunately, so many people in this area are panicking about it and interestingly enough, people who don't even live in Norfolk (check out the comments on VA Pilot and you'll see what I mean). My sister and I both believe that it is a fear of change. I know that may sound too simplistic to some, but it's true. So many people in Hampton Roads, are so content with seeing it's self in sort of that Cul De Sac, USA category or possibly not defined at all. Remember, if I'm not mistaken, it was only about 10 years ago when Hampton Roads city leaders were debating about the most marketable name for this area. That was rather embarrassing. Now that Norfolk, being that it is historically the urban center of the region, is spearheading future growth, I think we can further hone our identity. Reading an article from Portfolio Weekly, a few weeks ago, a writer mentioned how staunchly this area is commited to conversative values, the military, and a suburban way of life. Of course, the suburban way of life stood out the most. To some, that comfort zone, if you will, is being threaten by something as blatantly urban as ligh rail. And unfortunately, many people have this abstract view of urban life, as it pertains to blight, crime, and unbareable congestion. I guess they get that from television or from cities they used to live in, that they mistakingly think Norfolk will mimic. It's sad, but you know, old habits die hard, or in this case, old myths. Anyway, only when light rail sinks into the culture of the entire region, will attitudes change.

All the negative comments about light rail, on...(you guessed it), the Virginian Pilot, are annoying. I know people are entitled to their own opinions, but I can't help but noticing how panicky it all sounds...and from out-of-towners no less!