Dillard Creek Commons | Creekside Village

[Spartan]

That's currently the mass retail marketing strategy, where you often see a Home Depot being built next to a Lowe's in an attempt to kill the other off.

It's mostly good for the consumers in the short term, as that offers a lot of cost cutting and lower prices. Long term, the consumer gets viewer choices in products.

I've only been in one Bass Pro Shop, for instance, but take away the elk heads on the wall, and the large aquarium, and I feel like I'm walking through a large Wal-Mart sporting goods store.

I agree. BPS has a lot of variety, and its a good combination of products. I like the stores in general- but I don't think its work tax breaks. I've never heard of a BPS that brought in a hotel.

[greenvillegrows]

I've never heard of a BPS that brought in a hotel.

It's happened. It could happen here. That intersection is closer to GSP. Maybe it will shift some of the development pressure off Pelham Road.

Bloomington: http://twincities.bizjournals.com/twinciti.../13/story2.html

Miami-Dade: http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/st.../04/story7.html

Independence:

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s...m&newsID=56

[Spartan]

You never know.

All I know is that I wouldn't go to a hotel just to go to a BPS. The airport needs some more hotels nearby though. I can defintely see that happening.

[Spartan]

Some more info on this project from the Herald-Journal today:

This will be a $290 million, 200 acre, urban village divided into two sections: Dillard Creek Commons Power Center and Creekside Village Lifestyle Center. Combined they will total 1.32 million square feet and 3,600 parking spaces. Its timeline goes through 2010.

The GSP Airport Environs Planning Commission is supervising the project.

Dillard Creek Commons (100.6 acres)

• office buildings
  
• retail space
  
• a movie theater
  
• department stores
  
• a few restaurants
  

Creekside Village Lifestyle Center (68.6 acres)

• "a number" of residences
  
• retail shops
  
• restaurants
  

Other details

• Ten outparcels on the property along Highway 14 will remain unused to allow for future growth
  
  
• "Several" acres will be left as green space
  
• The State Legislature did not approve $1 million in the budget to create a frontage road to connect the project to Brockman-Mclimon Road
  

-----

My initial thoughts are that plans are clearly still preliminary. They don't know (or aren't sharing) some of the details- like how many residential units, how much office space, how much green space, etc will be included in this project. I don't like how they are splitting up the residential and commercial aspects of this site, but I'll wait until I see some designs before I critize that too much.

They compare this to the Mount Plesant Town Center, which to my knowledge doesn't include any residential component. If it does, then it is so segregated form the commercial areas that it doesn't feel like its part of the site.

[GvilleSC]

Some interesting stuff. 2010 seems like an ambitious date considering where it seems that they are currently with the project.

I'll be interested to see how this transforms this area.

[gs3]

Some more info on this project from the Herald-Journal today:

This will be a $290 million, 200 acre, urban village divided into two sections: Dillard Creek Commons Power Center and Creekside Village Lifestyle Center. Combined they will total 1.32 million square feet and 3,600 parking spaces. Its timeline goes through 2010.

The GSP Airport Environs Planning Commission is supervising the project.

Dillard Creek Commons (100.6 acres)

• office buildings
  
• retail space
  
• a movie theater
  
• department stores
  
• a few restaurants
  

Creekside Village Lifestyle Center (68.6 acres)

• "a number" of residences
  
• retail shops
  
• restaurants
  

Other details

• Ten outparcels on the property along Highway 14 will remain unused to allow for future growth
  
  
• "Several" acres will be left as green space
  
• The State Legislature did not approve $1 million in the budget to create a frontage road to connect the project to Brockman-Mclimon Road
  

-----

My initial thoughts are that plans are clearly still preliminary. They don't know (or aren't sharing) some of the details- like how many residential units, how much office space, how much green space, etc will be included in this project. I don't like how they are splitting up the residential and commercial aspects of this site, but I'll wait until I see some designs before I critize that too much.

They compare this to the Mount Plesant Town Center, which to my knowledge doesn't include any residential component. If it does, then it is so segregated form the commercial areas that it doesn't feel like its part of the site.

Good update. Thanks.

[mallguy]

Interesting- not sure what to think. Evocations of grid streets, downtowns, "high-density" housing, etc. in the article, while the numbers from the article show it to be more low-density sprawl; that's an enormous amount of land for the square footage of the development. Naturally the shopping is described as "upscale".

Done right and this could be a good thing; not sure what to think having not seen the site plans and tenant lists.

[btoy]

One thing to remember regarding the residential is that much of this site is in the Airport Environs and the airport prohibits any new residential in that area.

[Spartan]

Perhaps thats why it is in two phases. The airport evirons are not all that large, though they are not insignificant either. The article specifically mentions high density residential development, but does not go into any detail. I want to know what "high density" means. Technically, a well designed subdivision could be "high density."

[mallguy]

I'm thinking two more things:

1. Probably a Belk will end up here eventually.

2. This shopping center, plus Greenridge/Magnolia Park, could put another big dent into Haywood Road and Haywood Mall.

[Spartan]

I agree. But unlike the other project you mention, this one has the potential to put a dent into Westgate as well, depending on what end up there (albeit a smaller dent).

[Greenville]

I still don't think Haywood is going anywhere. There are enough people in the region, plus a lot of people moving to the region, to support both the retail we already have as well as the retail that will come on-line soon.

[mallguy]

Fair point- Westgate could be a bigger loser.

In the long run, I see the retail wave that shifted from downtown to Pleasantburg to Haywood to Woodruff continuing to shift, leaving roads towards Greenville's core behind. Haywood will still be around for a long time to come, but this is competition and the mall needs to evolve and adapt to stay on top of the retail market.

Haywood won the last round of mall wars in part because it was so much bigger than Greenville Mall or McAlister Square; the key factor in mall success is critical mass. This new development will be about the same size as Haywood, plus it'll be located in an area that is seeing more growth than central Greenville. Should be an interesting battle!

[gs3]

One thing to remember regarding the residential is that much of this site is in the Airport Environs and the airport prohibits any new residential in that area.

btoy, any idea if there will be connectivity between this retail development and the hospital's Village at Pelham, which was scheduled to have residential as well?

[Spartan]

Just to clarify- I dont think Westgate or Haywood are going anywhere, but they could potentially loose some business. Western Spartanburg County and Eastern Greenville County are clearly the primary market for this place... so there is lots of existing money and lost of new growth that will occur there.

I think Greenville is more than a one mall town. Haywood won't go anywhere, and for that matter- neither will Westgate. The Upstate is probably overdue for another major shopping center. With the trend being these power center/lifestyle center developments- this could easily fit the bill. Being that its square footage is larger than Haywood or Westgate and its located between Greenville and Spartanburg, this could really have the potential of becoming the major shopping center of the Upstate region.

[crescentmoon]

Don't take the SHJ article as gospel. There are a number of inaccuracies in it. The writer gives the GSP authority it legally doesn't have.

[mallguy]

Can anyone recall predictions about Greenville and Haywood malls when they were first built- late '70s? I also recall some talk in the '70s about a proposed enclosed mall to be built at the intersection of Laurens and I-85. I'd be pretty certain people thought Haywood would be a home run, and probably Greenville Mall too. I'd just be curious about comparing views in the '70s of the last round of shopping center construction vs. this one, to compare how things turned out.

Whatever happens to Haywood, Greenville really needs more in-town retail around downtown and Augusta Road.

[Spartan]

Don't take the SHJ article as gospel. There are a number of inaccuracies in it. The writer gives the GSP authority it legally doesn't have.

Care to elaborate?

[G'ville-gal]

According to the article, it states that Village at Pelham LLC is the developer. It also states it will be only 7000 sq. feet larger than Haywood Mall. I thought the developers were a company based in Charlotte.

Residential will be a nightmare in that area. With the noise from the airplanes and the noise from 1-85, I bet the residential will be apartment complexes.

I wonder why the Village at Pelham is just now claiming to be the developers.

[btoy]

That was a mistake. Collett and Associates in the Developer of this project. Village of Pelham is Spartanburg Regional Hospital, they are not in the development business and are only developing their hospital now. They have sold of the Commercial Portion of the Village of Pelham to the Flaglier Group out of Atlanta.

[G'ville-gal]

gsupstate, The Village at Pelham at its present site was never to have residential. It was to have an ambulatory hospital, doctors offices, an outpatient surgery center and a "Wellness Village" across the street on 14 which was to house retail.

I wonder why the Village at Pelham for months stated that another developer had bought the land.

[btoy]

One other thing to think about, alot of Square Footage at the Haywood Mall is taken up by all the interior cooridors and common areas, at this project those spaces will be out doors, meaning really it is a bigger project. But, the Haywood Mall is all retail, whereas in this case it is mixed use so it probubly wont have as much reatail as Haywood Mall.

gsupstate, The Village at Pelham at its present site was never to have residential. It was to have an ambulatory hospital, doctors offices, an outpatient surgery center and a "Wellness Village" across the street on 14 which was to house retail.

I wonder why the Village at Pelham for months stated that another developer had bought the land.

This project is totally seperate from the Village at Pelham, it is adjacent to it.

[G'ville-gal]

btoy, you replied as I was replying. It seemed a mistake to me ,too as the article does not make sense regarding the developers.

[G'ville-gal]

btoy,

Does the fact that Flaglier group is doing the wellness village side mean that the concept may not happen? In other words, at this point anything can be developed? Has the Village at Pelham given up its idea for the retail side to be geared towards green space , trails and shops conducive to wellness?

[btoy]

I do not know what Flaglier has in mind, I am sure since the curbs are in that they are sticking to some degree with what they have but as for tennant mix? Who know. YOu still ahve to get tenants and wanting them to be Wellness Oriented doesn't mean that wellness oreinted uses are going to be interested.