Ally Charlotte Center (f/k/a Tryon Place) - 26 floors - 427'

[Dale]

^ Should this be construed as confidence or tenuousness ?

[CLTProductions]

58 minutes ago, Dale said:

^ Should this be construed as confidence or tenuousness ?

Lol should have elaborated. The way the financing works for this project and its sheer magnitude (along with contractors, construction and general timelines set by Crescent) this in general has been stated it will either all go, or nothing will. Look at 300 S Tryon for example (but in reverse). The hotel partner hasn't officially been announced but it is still being built with the rest of the project. 

[Dale]

Makes sense! Just a little jittery here. ;-)

[Deleted.]

Wait, I'm confused. Can y'all dumb it down please?

[Silicon Dogwoods]

1 hour ago, Piedmont767 said:

Wait, I'm confused. Can y'all dumb it down please?

300 Tryon: on target including both office tower and hotel. Both structures had to be built at the same time, both are being built at the same time, even though no hotel partner has been announced. My own view is that although many thought Kimpton was the original hotel partner, it has been a mess ever since its acquisition by Intercontinental. So the hotel partner is still up in the air, but the building is going up. There'll be a hotel partner of some kind; let's hope it's a new, upscale brand for Charlotte.

Tryon Place: seriously off-target. Most of us feel that nothing will happen unless/until a sizable tenant is signed up and announced. Like 300 Tryon, both office tower and hotel must be built together. So if there's no tenant for the office tower, there'll be no office tower and no hotel, either.

Make sense?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Silicon Dogwoods said:

300 Tryon: on target including both office tower and hotel. Both structures had to be built at the same time, both are being built at the same time, even though no hotel partner has been announced. My own view is that although many thought Kimpton was the original hotel partner, it has been a mess ever since its acquisition by Intercontinental. So the hotel partner is still up in the air, but the building is going up. There'll be a hotel partner of some kind; let's hope it's a new, upscale brand for Charlotte.

Tryon Place: seriously off-target. Most of us feel that nothing will happen unless/until a sizable tenant is signed up and announced. Like 300 Tryon, both office tower and hotel must be built together. So if there's no tenant for the office tower, there'll be no office tower and no hotel, either.

Make sense?

Actually this isn't what we are saying about Tryon Place. While honestly I and many others are still skeptical about the project, reliable sources are saying it's still on track, just that's it a complicated project and complicated projects take time. They are supposedly comfortable with the prospect of going spec. I don't think it's spec, I think they have a tenant . Only reason they'd increase to 36 floors.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Guest

[Silicon Dogwoods]

15 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Actually this isn't what we are saying about Tryon Place. While honestly I and many others are still skeptical about the project, reliable sources are saying it's still on track, just that's it a complicated project and complicated projects take time. They are supposedly comfortable with the prospect of going spec. I don't think it's spec, I think they have a tenant . Only reason they'd increase to 36 floors.

Oh, ok. Thanks for the clarification.

But I still don't believe they have a tenant. 

 

Edited February 16, 2016 by Silicon Dogwoods

[Deleted.]

8 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Actually this isn't what we are saying about Tryon Place. While honestly I and many others are still skeptical about the project, reliable sources are saying it's still on track, just that's it a complicated project and complicated projects take time. They are supposedly comfortable with the prospect of going spec. I don't think it's spec, I think they have a tenant . Only reason they'd increase to 36 floors.

Ok, i think I get what you are saying. But what is a spec? Any clue what the tenant could be?

[DMann]

On 1/30/2016 at 2:07 PM, dubone said:

 

 

I don't know how that just happened!  Concerning Tryon Place, does anyone remember back in 2005 when HBSC was flirting with both Tampa and Charlotte to place their NA headquarters?  Well, they just settled their world headquarters to be in London over Hong Kong, so maybe they are in a position to select one for here.

[CLT2014]

5 hours ago, Piedmont767 said:

Ok, i think I get what you are saying. But what is a spec? Any clue what the tenant could be?

Spec = speculative. Constructing the building without a portion of the building already leased out to prospective tenants. It is more risky because the landlord might have to heavily discount rent if the building is finished without a tenant. The longer it sits empty, the bigger discount tenants often expect.

With 615 S College, Tryon Place, and 300 S Tryon we would add about 1.7 million square feet of new office space (300,000 more than the Bank of America Corporate Center). We know Babson Capital is taking about half of 300 S Tryon so that leaves about 1.35 million square feet that is currently not pre-leased out or we don't know about the deal.

To show why a relocation (which is very hard work to land) won't put a huge dent in the 1.35 million square feet, we can look at two of the most high profile relocations to other cities recently: Mercedes Benz is building a 250,000 square foot HQ in Atlanta for about 900 jobs. The big GE HQ win for Boston will add 800 jobs and they have been looking at around 175,000 square feet in the Boston Seaport. So if Charlotte managed to land both Mercedes Benz AND GE, about 32% of the new square footage would be occupied. And that is assuming they selected Uptown (Mercedes went to suburban Atlanta).

There is a lot of work to do to find tenants both inside and outside Charlotte. My biggest concern is finding tenants already in Charlotte. The two biggest banks are not rapidly expanding and are the backbone of Charlotte's Uptown employment. Whether the regional banks or other Uptown employers need an extra 1.35 million square feet is anybody's guess. If anything, they might just shift employment to a newer building and our older buildings have higher vacancy rates.

Edited February 16, 2016 by CLT2014

[CLTProductions]

[Silicon Dogwoods]

1 hour ago, Jayvee said:

[whispering] Not without a dang tenant lined up...

[Deleted.]

Going completely off topic here, can anyone imagine HSBC or BMW's NA HQ here in CLT? Is BMW's NA HQ still up in the air?

[KJHburg]

Here is a another possible anchor for Tryon Place or Portmans 615 South College Regions Bank.  Not sure how much space they would need but they are growing here.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/bank_notes/2015/09/regions-bank-chief-on-employee-growth-spurt-in.html

and here's another possible anchor Paypal

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/real_estate/2015/11/paypal-considering-charlotte-for-east-coast.html

But both could end up in SouthPark or Ballantyne markets or other suburban markets where new space in being constructed too.

In terms of increasing the height of Tryon Place what about the square footage? I can only see them doing that if they have a large anchor tenant.

 

[CLT2014]

32 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Here is a another possible anchor for Tryon Place or Portmans 615 South College Regions Bank.  Not sure how much space they would need but they are growing here.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/bank_notes/2015/09/regions-bank-chief-on-employee-growth-spurt-in.html

and here's another possible anchor Paypal

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/real_estate/2015/11/paypal-considering-charlotte-for-east-coast.html

But both could end up in SouthPark or Ballantyne markets or other suburban markets where new space in being constructed too.

In terms of increasing the height of Tryon Place what about the square footage? I can only see them doing that if they have a large anchor tenant.

 

If CLT lands PayPal, they will most likely be in the Airport area, University City, or Ballantyne. Fort Mill is a wild card as well. They will require large and open floors and free parking (lots of the contact center employees will be around $35k per year, expensive parking is a no-no). Also, because an Ops Center is pure cost/overhead, $18-$19 per square foot in UC or Airport is much more appealing than ~$30 per square foot in Uptown. They will probably want a campus similar to their current Central Ops Center in Omaha area, pictured below:

Edited February 16, 2016 by CLT2014

[Deleted.]

 

Is this the new rendering? It looks less curvy. If it is the updated rendering, it looks like Crescent has reverted back to the shorter 27-storey version.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Piedmont767

[CLTProductions]

19 minutes ago, Piedmont767 said:

 

Is this the new rendering? It looks less curvy. If it is the updated rendering, it looks like Crescent has reverted back to the shorter 27-storey version.

It's actually a really old rendering. Its not green anymore (its grey like the hotel), the garage is more heavily masked etc

[Deleted.]

2 minutes ago, Jayvee said:

It's actually a really old rendering. Its not green anymore (its grey like the hotel), the garage is more heavily masked etc

Oh ok thanks! So the current plan isn't as short or a ugly as the rendering I linked to? When can we see an updated rendering Jayvee?

Edited February 24, 2016 by Piedmont767

[CLTProductions]

8 minutes ago, Piedmont767 said:

Oh ok thanks! So the current plan isn't as short or a ugly as the rendering I linked to? When can we see an updated rendering Jayvee?

Short, I dunno. Final height hasn't been decided on but no it's much sleeker and greyer than this. Less contours and more architectural lines. 

[NCpride]

Man, I really liked the green and thought it would be a nice contrast with the surrounding buildings. Oh well... guess as long as it gets built I'll be happy.  

[Deleted.]

Because I am obsessed with this project at the minute, I'm wondering how we went from this:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article9094967.html#.U03YgvRDvvc

to being worried about having too much office space in a relatively short time?

[CLT2014]

58 minutes ago, Piedmont767 said:

Because I am obsessed with this project at the minute, I'm wondering how we went from this:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article9094967.html#.U03YgvRDvvc

to being worried about having too much office space in a relatively short time?

That article was written before the towers took off. There was a big need for more office towers then. Fast forward to today and this project has a bit more risk. There are towers already under cosntruction such as Portman and 300 S Tryon and they are competing for tenants - none have announced a major tenant (other than 300 S Tryon that went up with Babson Capital lined up).

[Deleted.]

9 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

That article was written before the towers took off. There was a big need for more office towers then. Fast forward to today and this project has a bit more risk. There are towers already under cosntruction such as Portman and 300 S Tryon and they are competing for tenants - none have announced a major tenant (other than 300 S Tryon that went up with Babson Capital lined up).

I get that, but this is what the planners supposedly wanted- new towers- and there are only 3 lined up or in construction, so there not that many. It just seems like that is what was written in the article new towers, we start new ones and then they are doomed to fail and never be built. 

[dcharlotte]

Everyone knows the real estate cycle and wants to stay one step ahead of it.

Also, doom and gloom and one side of the spectrum seems to be the only thing that is printed in any sort of media today. Either the economy is booming or it is broken.

[Silicon Dogwoods]

5 minutes ago, Piedmont767 said:

I get that, but this is what the planners supposedly wanted- new towers- and there are only 3 lined up or in construction, so there not that many. It just seems like that is what was written in the article new towers, we start new ones and then they are doomed to fail and never be built. 

I would bet that we were hoping the General Assembly would quickly OK an incentives package, hence all that talk of new towers.

Instead, they dragged their feet. And oil nose-dived and the global markets swooned and we missed the window for our paltry piker incentives package to work its magic.

Hence the hangin' o' the crepe.