Ally Charlotte Center (f/k/a Tryon Place) - 26 floors - 427'

[CLTProductions]

If I've said it once, I've said a hundred times, uptown needs more animal crematoriums.

 

[CLTProductions]

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/real_estate/2014/03/crescent-communities-edged-out-bidder-by-4-000-for.html

 

Pretty interesting article on the sale of the land on Stonewall. Kind of calls in question if an upset bid is on its way?

 

"The 10-day upset bid period for the property has begun. A representative of McClain Real Estate Development says the firm plans to submit an $11 million bid for the property, with a proposal to develop 278 apartment units and 45 “fractional” condo units, a 300-room hotel containing three restaurants. The project, called “The Charlotte Club,” also would include a 50,000-square-foot event and entertainment facility with a recording studio. You can visit the firm's website here."

 

The Charlotte Club sounds rather interesting, the website is right out of 1995 though.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Jayvee

[dubone]

Well, hopefully the bidding war will yield more money for the city in paying off its Nascar HOF loan sooner.

 

I still hope Crescent wins since they seem the most prepared to actually make a project happen.   I really don't want the entertainment stuff to win, that sounds like another pie in the sky dream like what was proposed at Eastland.

[Guest]

Well, hopefully the bidding war will yield more money for the city in paying off its Nascar HOF loan sooner.

 

I still hope Crescent wins since they seem the most prepared to actually make a project happen.   I really don't want the entertainment stuff to win, that sounds like another pie in the sky dream like what was proposed at Eastland.

The beginning of the end has come my friends. 

The Charlotte Club was the third of three 50 floor buildings proposed in charlotte in 2007. It was to be 52 floors, all fractional ownership, and was to sit on the Rennaisance Apartments site where Sky House is being constructed today. It, like 210, never came to be. It was probably the last proposal of the bubble before all went down the tubes. 

While it does sound like they have a better proposal this time around, I give it a 5% chance .Hopefully Crescent wins, because The Charlotte Club will NEVER COME TO BE.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Guest

[SouthEndCLT811]

Even if it doesn't come to be I wish that "fractional ownership" idea would become more common in the Uptown area.

 

Whoops.  Thought that site was using that term to describe the Rent to Buy section of the Live,Work,Play page.  I don't care about the time sharing aspect haha..

Edited March 31, 2014 by SouthEndCLT811

[atlrvr]

The Charlotte Club proposal is bizarre.  This I suppose is the proposal I was aware of, but now a couple of things I feel previously misled on.  I have no idea who would be providing the financial backing for this proposal.  Not saying its not possible, but while I perviously thought Marriott International corporation was financially involved, I feel like that might be a bit not quite accurate.  I hate to be cynical, but feel like they are hoping to get this site under contract, and that capital partners will come flocking to them.  The whole concept seems completely unfinancable by any traditional lender. 

 

If I'm going to speculate on their business model, its use $550k to place it under contract, get a very expensive mezz loan to finance the purchase of the land (skeptical they can get that, but maybe), then pre-sell enough fracitonal condos/hotels to raise enough equity to build this without a traditional construction loan using people's deposits.

 

Maybe my skepticism is misplaced, but I can't imagine Charlotte is the right market for essentially an untested concept (ok, Trump Soho is similar, but this project is more complex, and well, Trump and SoHo are both unique).  I just don't want to see Crescent or Portman walk away from this because land prices increases by $1-2 million and thier projects no longer make financial sense.

[cltbwimob]

Can someone provide a quick explanation of the bid process? If these new guys outbid Crescent and MaCompanies, do they automatically get the land, or can the city make a decision to go with a lower bidder based upon their ability to complete a project. Based on what I see from the Charlotte Club website, I am not convinced these guys have ever developed a single project. Everything on the website looks like 1998, including the renderings. There are multiple misspellings; nothing about the website looks professional. Heck it's a GoDaddy website. The executive bios also do not portend a promising future for the project either.

If however, they do manage to pull off the upset bid, get financing, and build their project, then I am going to enter this game. Circa 2018, if these guys pull this off, look for a new company called CLTBWIMOB Real Estate Holdings to emerge, purchase a couple of blocks of downtown real estate, and begin developing mixed use projects. What would you guys like to see? I am thinking perhaps a 500 room Grand Hyatt along with a 40 story rent to buy apartment/condo tower (almost a mirror image of the canceled One Charlotte), a 100,000 sf aquarium, a 1,000 ft observation tower and 500,000 sf of retail anchored by a flagship Belk and a Saks Fifth Avenue. RDF, I think I need some renderings...this is going to be awesome.

Edited April 1, 2014 by cltbwimob

[Guest]

Even if it doesn't come to be I wish that "fractional ownership" idea would become more common in the Uptown area.

I was gonna say...

Whoops. Thought that site was using that term to describe the Rent to Buy section of the Live,Work,Play page. I don't care about the time sharing aspect haha..

[Spartan]

 

^^ But wasn't 1BAC built around the peak of corporate jock flexing where they felt the need to construct cavernous, uber luxurious lobbys to show how important they are? That's not quite the case these days right?

 

 

Maybe? It's still no excuse for how poorly the street level is designed on that building.

 

UMUD zoning, among other things, limits the amount of "blank wall" a project can have on the street. It also requires minimum percentages of storefront retail space.

 

Edit: If anyone is very very curious, you can read the ordinance yourself. UMUD starts on page 153 of this PDF: http://ww.charmeck.org/Planning/ZoningOrdinance/ZoningOrdCityChapter09.pdf, which is available via the Zoning Ordinance website: http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/planning/rezoning/pages/zoningordinance.aspx

 

The problem with UMUDD is that while it regulates use and to some extent the urban design, it doesn't get into the details of the street level experience. I.E.: 1BAC meets all the requirements of UMUDD, but it still doesn't feel right. College Street feels like a service entrance. Trade Street is a driveway for the Ritz.

 

On the flip side, Catalyst, Ally Bank, and the Duke Power Tower are fairly good examples of buildings resulting from UMUDD. I'm not sure how/why we ended up with such completely different results from the same zoning. I want to say that Bank of America got a free pass somehow except that they've been involved with other pretty good urban projects before.

[15895]

Today at 10am was the deadline for the upset bid.

Anyone know if there were any??

[Guest]

Today at 10am was the deadline for the upset bid.

Anyone know if there were any??

I thought I read crescent upped their bid to 4000 more than the stupid fractional ownership people...

[kermit]

Will Boyle at CBJ tweetered:

 

 

Update: No upset bids received. Contract with Crescent in effect. 6-month due diligence period, then closing:

 

he provided a CBJ link, but it is broken at the moment.

Edited April 8, 2014 by kermit

[HopHead]

^Ha. You just beat me to it! Though that link goes to the article from March 31. Good news. Crescent has 6 months due-diligence then it's closing time.

[15895]

The Charlotte Club proposal is bizarre. This I suppose is the proposal I was aware of, but now a couple of things I feel previously misled on. I have no idea who would be providing the financial backing for this proposal. Not saying its not possible, but while I perviously thought Marriott International corporation was financially involved, I feel like that might be a bit not quite accurate. I hate to be cynical, but feel like they are hoping to get this site under contract, and that capital partners will come flocking to them. The whole concept seems completely unfinancable by any traditional lender.

If I'm going to speculate on their business model, its use $550k to place it under contract, get a very expensive mezz loan to finance the purchase of the land (skeptical they can get that, but maybe), then pre-sell enough fracitonal condos/hotels to raise enough equity to build this without a traditional construction loan using people's deposits.

Maybe my skepticism is misplaced, but I can't imagine Charlotte is the right market for essentially an untested concept (ok, Trump Soho is similar, but this project is more complex, and well, Trump and SoHo are both unique). I just don't want to see Crescent or Portman walk away from this because land prices increases by $1-2 million and thier projects no longer make financial sense.

Is it possible you weren't misled and Crescent is involved with Marriott International?

[atlrvr]

I don't think so....now that I see who was involved in that and who my contact has worked with, pretty certain he had felt like the other guys were going to win this site.

 

That said, its certainly possible Marriott is interested in being the flag on this site and could be working with Crescent as well, but I'm pretty certain my information had nothing to do with Crescent.

 

I tend to lean toward Hyatt Regency on this city owned parcel, and Hyatt Andaz at the Goodyear site, which I think RDF speculated based on rumor that it would be a same parent chain but different brand.

[ScottCLT]

I dunno...there are only 12 Andaz hotels in the world right now: San Diego, LA, Napa Valley, 2 x NYC, Savannah, Costa Rica, London, Amsterdam, Maui, Shanghai, and one opening soon in Tokyo. There aren't any other announcements on their website for additional openings coming soon. Seems like these hotels are only in true destination travel cities. Savannah seems a little out of place on the list, but it is still a tourist city much more than Charlotte is. That being said, landing an Andaz in Charlotte would be awesome if it were to happen!

[Guest]

I dunno...there are only 12 Andaz hotels in the world right now: San Diego, LA, Napa Valley, 2 x NYC, Savannah, Costa Rica, London, Amsterdam, Maui, Shanghai, and one opening soon in Tokyo. There aren't any other announcements on their website for additional openings coming soon. Seems like these hotels are only in true destination travel cities. Savannah seems a little out of place on the list, but it is still a tourist city much more than Charlotte is. That being said, landing an Andaz in Charlotte would be awesome if it were to happen!

Stayed at the Andaz in Savannah on my Wedding Night, and the Andaz in Napa on my Honeymoon. Love that hotel!

[atlrvr]

Wells Fargo may be willing to guarantee a certain % of rooms like BofA does for the Ritz to secure a Andaz or other luxury property (W Hotel, Four Seasons, etc)

[HopHead]

Wells Fargo may be willing to guarantee a certain % of rooms like BofA does for the Ritz to secure a Andaz or other luxury property (W Hotel, Four Seasons, etc)

 

That's a good point considering how many Wells Fargo employees travel to here during the week. I know a lot of BofA workers who often have a hard time getting a room at the Ritz during the week because it's usually full (also throw in the fact it's where most most NBA teams stay when they are in town to play the Bobcats/Hornets, or if there is a big show at the Cable Box). 

[CLTProductions]

That's a good point considering how many Wells Fargo employees travel to here during the week. I know a lot of BofA workers who often have a hard time getting a room at the Ritz during the week because it's usually full (also throw in the fact it's where most most NBA teams stay when they are in town to play the Bobcats/Hornets, or if there is a big show at the Cable Box). 

It is very hard to get a room at the Ritz (even as a BofA employee) no matter what day of the week it is haha

[Niner National]

LPL Financial is announcing where their new office location will be next month (rumored to be a possibility in Uptown). Could mean good news for this project or Portman.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Niner National

[Guest]

LPL Financial is announcing where their new office location will be next month (rumored to be Uptown). Could mean good news for this project or Portman.

I heard there's a 95% chance they will be suburban.

[ah59396]

I heard there's a 95% chance they will be suburban.

 

 

I heard Fort Mill potentially.

[atlrvr]

^  I suspect they build a new project right next to where they are today in the old Coliseum area.  There was an article about looking at SC, but I suspect that was an attempt to get incentives out of Charlotte.  The city can't grant incentives to existing companies unless they demonstrate that they would legitamately leave.

 

I'm hopefuly for Uptown, but realistically doubt it.  I find it funny they claim to have the largest energy net neutral building in the country for their new office building in San Diege and would build something similar here, but ironically place it in an area that requires massive energy to access (I'm assuming if they moved to South Carolina that the majority of their workforce would be driving much further).

[Guest]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/04/25/4865330/crescent-communities-embraces.html#.U1wHCK1dWyw

I bet we see movement on this project is the next year. They sound very serious about getting it going.