Downtown Projects & Developments

[NotNotSanti]

Cool pic! Hope to have an update on 204 E Main Street in the near future. 

[westsider28]

2 hours ago, Santi said:

Cool pic! Hope to have an update on 204 E Main Street in the near future. 

Security Finance building? Interesting...

[djh1963]

Anyone  know what is happening at the old Bread of Life site? The have demolished the old church. 

Jason Sparks Bottoms | CONNOR TAYLOR | Encounter

[westsider28]

55 minutes ago, djh1963 said:

Anyone  know what is happening at the old Bread of Life site? The have demolished the old church. 

Jason Sparks Bottoms | CONNOR TAYLOR | Encounter

Nothing is happening, other than Johnson Development destroying local history for no reason.  It's just landscaping now.

Presumably they didn't want to pay to renovate it, so they demolished it instead, because we lack proper historic protections and/or advocacy in this city.  I posted about it on my Instagram and had many people respond lamenting its demise (including some in the Jewish community), and several people were interested in organizing to better protect our history, which I think is much needed.

Edited February 6, 2023 by westsider28

[djh1963]

Sad to hear that. What is tour insta account I would love to follow you there.

 

[Historyguy]

Definitely sad to lose the community's first synagogue.  I heard that they got a very high estimate to repair the foundation and decided it wasn't worth the cost.  

Unfortunately, historic preservation hasn't ever been a popular cause in this town (and given my username here, most of you can guess that I'm not happy about that).  I've said that we had just enough money to tear stuff down and rebuild but not enough money to do real adaptive reuse.  I don't like that, and I think that a good, active preservation group within a historical association could do some work to convince property owners of the value of preservation.  But there's just no appetite in local government that I've ever seen to really get behind historic preservation, and only when the bulldozers appear do people get exercised, and then they forget about it immediately after.  But all in all, we're still living in a strong property rights state and community and it's hard to overcome that.  

[westsider28]

3 hours ago, Historyguy said:

Definitely sad to lose the community's first synagogue.  I heard that they got a very high estimate to repair the foundation and decided it wasn't worth the cost.  

Unfortunately, historic preservation hasn't ever been a popular cause in this town (and given my username here, most of you can guess that I'm not happy about that).  I've said that we had just enough money to tear stuff down and rebuild but not enough money to do real adaptive reuse.  I don't like that, and I think that a good, active preservation group within a historical association could do some work to convince property owners of the value of preservation.  But there's just no appetite in local government that I've ever seen to really get behind historic preservation, and only when the bulldozers appear do people get exercised, and then they forget about it immediately after.  But all in all, we're still living in a strong property rights state and community and it's hard to overcome that.  

Did they ever go public and ASK if there were any interested buyers/donors?  No.

IMO, we need more transparency from government.  The City needs to post ALL permitting activity publicly online (other places do that).  Also, we clearly have a feckless local media environment, as this whole thing has gone completely under-the-radar, with not a peep from the press.  IDK if it's because of JD's clout and no one wants to offend or what.  We're bigger than any one old-money family now.  Time for local citizens to speak up and take more control in these processes.  I really believe there's significant support for historic preservation (especially as development pressures increase), but there's no leadership or organization, so people don't know what to do (other than complain online).

Edit: We need to proactively put a LOT of buildings on the local register.  Where can we find out how to do that?

Edited February 10, 2023 by westsider28

[Historyguy]

On 2/9/2023 at 9:38 PM, westsider28 said:

Edit: We need to proactively put a LOT of buildings on the local register.  Where can we find out how to do that?

Edited

I looked on the planning site and I do not see the form to place something on the local historic register anywhere on the site.  Definitely ought to be there.  

https://www.cityofspartanburg.org/planning-zoning

The basics - a site can be added to the local register by petition of the owner, by direct action of HARB, or by a petition signed by 10 city residents.  Once that petition goes to HARB, there's a vote on whether to put the property on the pending list, which protects it before a full evaluation and hearing before HARB.  HARB can then nominate it to City Council, which must approve it before it can be added to the local register.  

The process is laid out in section 510 of the zoning ordinance.  

https://www.cityofspartanburg.org/cms_assets/Planning/Zoning Ordinance 1-21-15.pdf

These are the criteria that HARB uses to determine eligibility:

Specific Guidelines: A site or district may be designated as historic if it: 1. Has significant inherent character, interest, or value as a part of the development of heritage of the community, state, or nation; 2. Is the site of a significant historical event; 3. Is associated with a person or persons who contributed significantly to the culture and development of the community, state, or nation; 4. Exemplified the cultural, political, economic, social, ethnic, or historical heritage of the community; 5. Embodies the distinguishing characteristics of a type, style, period, or specimen in engineering or architecture or contains elements of design, detail, or craftsmanship which represent a significant innovation; 6. Represents an established an familiar visual feature of the neighborhood or community; or 7. Has yielded or is likely to yield information important in pre-history or history

[Spartan]

FWIW, historic status can help delay but doesn't necessarily prevent demolition of old buildings. This is why good design standards via a form based code are so important. There's the historic fabric that is irreplaceable, but there's an urban fabric that can be maintained and improved upon for future generations if done well. IMO, its a really great thing that they extended the DT code up to the north. Whatever replaces that building will not be a step backwards.

[westsider28]

4 hours ago, Spartan said:

FWIW, historic status can help delay but doesn't necessarily prevent demolition of old buildings. This is why good design standards via a form based code are so important. There's the historic fabric that is irreplaceable, but there's an urban fabric that can be maintained and improved upon for future generations if done well. IMO, its a really great thing that they extended the DT code up to the north. Whatever replaces that building will not be a step backwards.

I believe that's incorrect.  During the nomination process, demolition is only delayed.  But if approved/listed, the exterior (or façade at least) is permanently protected from demolition, as I understand it.

[Spartanburg Dude]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:16 PM, westsider28 said:

Nothing is happening, other than Johnson Development destroying local history for no reason.  It's just landscaping now.

Presumably they didn't want to pay to renovate it, so they demolished it instead, because we lack proper historic protections and/or advocacy in this city.  I posted about it on my Instagram and had many people respond lamenting its demise (including some in the Jewish community), and several people were interested in organizing to better protect our history, which I think is much needed.

It's sad that buildings like this are let to be demolished. Selfish and a complete lack of vision. 

[Spartan]

On 2/12/2023 at 5:05 PM, westsider28 said:

I believe that's incorrect.  During the nomination process, demolition is only delayed.  But if approved/listed, the exterior (or façade at least) is permanently protected from demolition, as I understand it.

Perhaps. Depends on how the codes are written in SC and the City.

[westsider28]

On 2/18/2023 at 10:58 AM, Spartan said:

Perhaps. Depends on how the codes are written in SC and the City.

We wouldn't have to speculate if the City would put important stuff like this on their website, where it would be fully accessible to the public (as it should be).

[Spartan]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:34 PM, westsider28 said:

We wouldn't have to speculate if the City would put important stuff like this on their website, where it would be fully accessible to the public (as it should be).

What do you mean? What isn't available on their website?

[westsider28]

2 hours ago, Spartan said:

What do you mean? What isn't available on their website?

The process for listing a building on the local historic register and what specific protections a listed building has are not on the City website (as far as I can tell).

[Spartan]

13 minutes ago, westsider28 said:

The process for listing a building on the local historic register and what specific protections a listed building has are not on the City website (as far as I can tell).

It's in Section 510 of the zoning ordinance. See page 236 (pdf page 248). You can also bypass the local process and go through SCSHPO. I think the HARB can react to local or national designations, but I could be wrong. 

TLDR:

• The process of designating sites or districts as historic may be initiated by the [HARB] as a whole, the City Council, any ten residents of the City, or the owner of the property to be considered or the owner’s authorized agent. Request for designation shall be made on an appropriate form provided by the Board.
• If demolition or removal is requested, the Board may delay granting the Certificate [of Appropriateness] for a period of up to 180 days. (Sec. 510.7 (C))

[NotNotSanti]

Not downtown per se, but it's the closest I could find for this.

MAIN STREET MOTEL is under new ownership and set for RENOVATION.

Not 'redevelopment,' so it will likely stay as a motel?

Here is how I found out about it:

https://www.wspa.com/news/local-news/motel-residents-in-spartanburg-forced-to-leave/

 

[camtology]

27 minutes ago, NotNotSanti said:

Not downtown per se, but it's the closest I could find for this.

MAIN STREET MOTEL is under new ownership and set for RENOVATION.

Not 'redevelopment,' so it will likely stay as a motel?

Here is how I found out about it:

https://www.wspa.com/news/local-news/motel-residents-in-spartanburg-forced-to-leave/

 

would be interesting to see how this redevelopment is influenced by the west main street restreetscaping that is planned to come soon

[Historyguy]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:08 PM, Spartan said:

It's in Section 510 of the zoning ordinance. See page 236 (pdf page 248). You can also bypass the local process and go through SCSHPO. I think the HARB can react to local or national designations, but I could be wrong. 

TLDR:

• The process of designating sites or districts as historic may be initiated by the [HARB] as a whole, the City Council, any ten residents of the City, or the owner of the property to be considered or the owner’s authorized agent. Request for designation shall be made on an appropriate form provided by the Board.
• If demolition or removal is requested, the Board may delay granting the Certificate [of Appropriateness] for a period of up to 180 days. (Sec. 510.7 (C))

You go through the SHPO for National Register designation.  However, being on the National Register offers absolutely no protection against demolition.  There have been National Register properties that have been modified or demolished with no consequence.  

The local register is governed somewhat by the HARB:  Being part of a local historic district or being listed on the Spartanburg historic register offers protection against modification and demolition.  This is permitted by the state under the comprehensive planning act, and is why the historic preservation ordinance is part of the zoning ordinance.  

HARB is asked, as part of the process, to respond on behalf of the local government when a property is up for the National Register - when the state review board considers it.  When I was the chair of the HARB, I was about to the point of saying that if a property wanted to be on the National Register but did not want to agree to be on the Spartanburg Register, then I was going to oppose their NR listing.  We have quite a few national register listed structures that are not on the local register - and it's pretty hard to get anybody on the local register without their consent.  

 

[westsider28]

CCNB has opened in 142 Social on Magnolia Street, which makes that building fully occupied!

Renovations continue on the 2 storefronts just south.

[westsider28]

Various misc. updates: I noticed there's been some (very minor) preliminary work going on at the former Magnolia Street Pub. Saw some workers scraping old paint (or something similar) off parts of the exterior. Perhaps this is finally getting underway?  Reminder that it's owned by the guy who owns Brass Monkey (former Chiefs Wings & Firewater) in Greenville.

Renovations continuing on 134 and 136 Magnolia:

The March 13 City Council agenda mentioned an Executive Session item called "Fresh Start", a potential housing development in the downtown area.  Sounds like it could be supportive housing for the homeless, perhaps?

And at Wednesday's (Mar. 29) meeting, there's an Executive Session item called "Project Monarch", a potential mixed-use development.  My guesses for that would be something in the Northside (since Butterfly Creek is over there), maybe the Wakefield site (that's also along Butterfly Creek), or maybe something to do with Monarch Private Capital (which was involved with Drayton Mills and is doing some affordable apts near I-26 & Reidville Rd)? IDK.

Also, looks like no DRB meeting for April.  I hope there's one in May; that would be 6 months since the last one (Nov. 2022).  Seems like the projects that hope to start in the summer (planetarium, M Peters towers, etc) would need to get final approval by then to meet their timeline.  Of course, the national/global economic uncertainty could be affecting things...

[westsider28]

According to this Cushman & Wakefield office market report, Taylor Enterprises Inc has leased 15,911 SF in Two Morgan Square (former Advance America).  Not sure who that is.  I found a Taylor Lubricants, who has a facility on Southport Road, but not sure if it's them or not.  But good to see a sizeable chunk of space leased in that building.

[NotNotSanti]

I just got a notice on Loopnet for 186 N Liberty Street. 

There appears to have been a switch up with the Gibbs Center renderings...? I seem to remember something along these lines for lot behind the Marriott. Are these the same as those that were posted then?

186 N. Liberty Street will be built on flat land. This is for more of a sloped piece of land. 

Anyway, posting here in case these are accidentally posted, updated renderings of the Gibbs Center.  AND because I'm very confused. Maybe someone can help me decipher this. XD

 

[westsider28]

35 minutes ago, NotNotSanti said:

I just got a notice on Loopnet for 186 N Liberty Street. 

There appears to have been a switch up with the Gibbs Center renderings...? I seem to remember something along these lines for lot behind the Marriott. Are these the same as those that were posted then?

186 N. Liberty Street will be built on flat land. This is for more of a sloped piece of land. 

Anyway, posting here in case these are accidentally posted, updated renderings of the Gibbs Center.  AND because I'm very confused. Maybe someone can help me decipher this. XD

Nah, that's a very old rendering from a previously proposed project that never ended up happening.  Definitely a mistake by Loopnet.

[NotNotSanti]

That's what I figured! Thanks for the clarification on the renderings.