The State of Downtown Retail

[RestedTraveler]

There's also the space where the Map Shop used to be as well as that lofty space above Venti where O-Cha once was.

[whitehourseview]

And of course the biggie, the old Woolworth building.

[RestedTraveler]

And of course the biggie, the old Woolworth building.

Yea, but it's not exactly available space, is it? Some day that block will actually be developed and we'll all be laughing at ourselves for fussing over it for so long.

[whitehourseview]

Yea, but it's not exactly available space, is it? Some day that block will actually be developed and we'll all be laughing at ourselves for fussing over it for so long.

I think available and that space is a fungible term. Has it ever been figured out who owns it?

[RestedTraveler]

I will still continue to assert that, in my humble opinion, a healthy mix (or weave, would be more accurate) of national chains and local stores would be good. The national chains would draw people into downtown that might not otherwise come into downtown to shop. While there, their traffic and dollars would spill over to the lucky local stores that happen to be located in between the national chain stores.

I spent the afternoon walking around Downtown Palo Alto, California today. Folks, I'm here to tell ya...University Avenue in Downtown Palo Alto is EXACTLY what I envision Main Street in Downtown Greenville becoming. There is a VERY healthy mix of eclectic local shops and restaurants along side national chains such as Restoration Hardware, Z Gallerie, Apple Store, Wolf Camera, Anthropologie, Buca di Beppo, California Pizza Kitchen (imagine that), Whole Foods Market (yes, downtown...on Emerson Street, just South of University Avenue) American Apparel, Joseph A. Banks, Starbucks, Cheesecake Factory, Gordon Biersch, Verizon Wireless, Pizza My Heart, Borders, etc.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that Palo Alto seems to have a very well organized Business & Professional Merchants Association.

If any of you ever have the opportunity to visit Downtown Palo Alto (not to be mistaken for East Palo Alto ... stay away from East Palo Alto if you know what's good for you), I encourage you to do so. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about. I've taken a few photos and will post the good ones after I get back home...which will be tomorrow evening.

All I can say is THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' 'BOUT!!!

[goodbye]

RT, that's awesome. I am really looking forward to your further and more detailed input regarding specific changes we need to make here to become an even better place to live.

[RestedTraveler]

RT, that's awesome. I am really looking forward to your further and more detailed input regarding specific changes we need to make here to become an even better place to live.

I'm not sure I am prepared to outline all of the changes that we need to make; however, I can definitely suggest a starting point that's really very simple: we need a Downtown Merchants Association that works to promote downtown businesses and at the same time works directly with Greenville City Leaders to identify and recruit specific national retailers and restaurants to downtown. This has been mentioned previously on here and I support this suggestion 100%.

I think the comparison between Greenville and Palo Alto is a good one since Palo Alto is roughly the same size as Greenville. It has one main street (University Avenue) running through the center of downtown. Like our Main Street, University Avenue is a tree-lined two-lane street with bump-out on-street parking and lots of store fronts. When I first drove through Palo Alto the other night to meet some colleagues for dinner, I was amazed. I felt right at home as it was almost like driving into Downtown Greenville from College Street to Broad. I had to go back today to check it out more closely.

Granted, Palo Alto has one big advantage that Greenville doesn't. It's got a major private university with 17,000+ students sitting right at the western edge of downtown. It's also got a transit hub (CalTrain Rail and VTA Bus) sitting right between downtown and that university. This makes me think that our multi-modal transit hub should be located downtown with some sort of rail transit having major stops elsewhere (Carolina First Center, the Point, CU-ICAR, Furman, etc.). I'd rather see this than see the hub itself located outside of downtown as I think it would be a strength to have it downtown.

I could go on-and-on, but it wouldn't be detailed or as specific as I would prefer and I have to get packed and get some rest before I head home.

[GvilleSC]

This sounds a lot like Greenville. I think your suggestions are great, too. It seems to me that the city of Greenville should possibly send a delegation out to get some pointers. We do a lot of things very well, but that doesn't mean we couldn't use some outside advice or look to another place for some assistance. I'm sure that their university helps a lot with demographics, but I wonder how else they got national retailers downtown? (I guess the placement of any regional malls would possibly affect that like Haywood). hmmm....

I can't wait to see some pictures, RT!

[RestedTraveler]

As promised, a few photos from Downtown Palo Alto:

Notice the similarities to Greenville? The essential characteristics are the same. Only the names have changed.

[linkerjpatrick]

Notice the similarities to Greenville? The essential characteristics are the same. Only the names have changed.

Wow, it does look a lot like downtown Greenville. I never knew it looked like that out there. Now only we could get a small movie theater downtown like they had back in the 50's, etc. If I'm talking to people on the Internet on forums, etc. who are out in California, etc. I mentioned Greenville is a lot like Palo Alto. That's really close to both Google's and Apple's headquarters. Just looked it up on Google maps. Now I know exactly where it is. Lot of famous and influential companies and people have come out of there.

[goodbye]

Thanks RT! Based on these photos, I actually prefer our Main Street streetscaping to theirs. If we are finally able to reinvest in a family oriented movie theatre or two (one could be much more "artsy") and perhaps add a couple national retailers such as a well-known bookstore that stays open late, we'll be there easily. Considering we do not have the same level of wealth and mass transit influence here, I'd say Greenville is definitely on a uniquely positive track. That is probably why so many people literally fall in love at first sight and don't want to leave. The addition of new quality development off of Main Street (example: McBee Station) will continue to greatly enhance this appeal. We're rolling right along now and nothing serious stands in the way of better progress.

[RestedTraveler]

Thanks RT! Based on these photos, I actually prefer our Main Street streetscaping to theirs...

Yes, I do too. That wasn't the point of the photos, though. The point was to show that national chain retailers can co-exist side-by-side with local establishments in an environment similar to Greenville's. In spite of the perceived wealth in Palo Alto, our wealthy and upper-class very likely has as much or more disposable income here due to the difference in cost of living and real estate costs. If Palo Alto can achieve this kind of mix, then Greenville certainly can do it. Also, one cannot make the argument that Palo Alto attracted this mix downtown because it doesn't have a mall. It does have a mall and that mall is also very similar to the Haywood Mall and is just a few blocks Northwest of Downtown Palo Alto. Palo Alto could easily be Greenville's sister.

[goodbye]

Believe me, I'd also love to see our vacant storefronts replaced with national retailers. That is our final step upon creation of our thriving residential component, which is on the way as we speak. I totally agree with your earlier assertion that we need to pursue a downtown business merchants association to begin practically hunting for quality national retailers. Perhaps getting the general public involved as well could help.

[StrangeCock]

I would kill to have a theatre like that.

[adrockc2]

Are any of the buildings that were formally theatre's still standing? I've heard that 221 N Main St was once a movie theatre. My point is, if there are more than one of the buildings that were movie theatre's still around, which one stands the best chance of being rehabbed back to it's original purpose?

Edited September 18, 2007 by adrockc2

[adrockc2]

I have seen these images before but I am not quite sure were they were located.

2 of the Rivoli

and the Carolina

Something like the Carolina would be awesome.

Edited September 18, 2007 by adrockc2

[charlie swords]

a small marque sign may be making it way to downtown soon....pending city approval of the design of course .

edti: i should say...don't get carried away, its no where as large as these, but i'm pleased with the design and it should fit the building and business.

Edited September 18, 2007 by charlie swords

[GvilleSC]

That would be such a boost to the life of downtown. Movies are one thing you can't really find downtown. You can do some limited shopping, grocery shopping, and eat all you want, but you've got to use your car for the movies. It would not only keep people downtown, but also draw more people at various times of the day. A good movie theater seems like a development generator similar to West End Field.

a small marque sign may be making it way to downtown soon....pending city approval of the design of course .

edti: i should say...don't get carried away, its no where as large as these, but i'm pleased with the design and it should fit the building and business.

You can't just leave us hanging like this...

[charlie swords]

That would be such a boost to the life of downtown. Movies are one thing you can't really find downtown. You can do some limited shopping, grocery shopping, and eat all you want, but you've got to use your car for the movies. It would not only keep people downtown, but also draw more people at various times of the day. A good movie theater seems like a development generator similar to West End Field.

a movie theater would be great, yes. Doesn't even have to be a large just a couple small screens, maybe in digital.

sorry, dont want to let the cat out of the bag but its NOT a theater...existing business, off main st.

Edited September 18, 2007 by charlie swords

[adrockc2]

I wish the old Rey's jeweler's

sign had not been taken down.

Edited September 18, 2007 by adrockc2

[linkerjpatrick]

Are any of the buildings that were formally theatre's still standing? I've heard that 221 N Main St was once a movie theatre. My point is, if there are more than one of the buildings that were movie theatre's still around, which one stands the best chance of being rehabbed back to it's original purpose?

I could be wrong but that may have been the old Fox theater in downtown Greenville. By the time I was around and before the malls were built and downtown revitialized the Fox had become a XXX movie theater place. Downtown Greenville was a very seedy place back during the late 70's. Thank goodness it was turned around. (It was sort of like the run down 1985 Hill Valley in Back to the Future. (Not the Las Vegas - Biff Version, The original or default 1985)

The shift to the malls on the outskirts did not happen overnight. Before Haywood Sears was located on Stone Ave. at Wade Hampton, Other than the Bell Tower Mall another "pre-mall" was the "Wade Hampton Mall" and I use that term loosely. The first blockbuster movie theater that was outside of downtown but still close was the Astro I & II. I had the great opportunity to see Star Wars their for the first time and that was the perfect theater to see Star Wars because they had the very large screen (I think it was even larger than the current large one at the Camelot) a long walk way from the ticket counter to the theater itself with 'stars" (lights) in the ceiling and the restrooms were for Astronaunts and Astronaughties. It's a real shame the Astro was closed down.

Their was even a movie theater in the Lewis Plaza Shopping Center. I think they have a Doctor's office their now. It's was on the corner near the current post office. Offtopic but I really wish they would have kept the Augusta Road Post Office in the original location.

[Greenville]

Who's to say that a small 2-4 screen theater could not be developed in the West End, but with a historic look? That would seem like a perfect use of one of those vacant plots of land between the main hub of the West End and the ballpark.

[goodbye]

a movie theater would be great, yes. Doesn't even have to be a large just a couple small screens, maybe in digital.

sorry, dont want to let the cat out of the bag but its NOT a theater...existing business, off main st.

Sounds like the former Tiki Bob's palm tree may come back as a new marquee sign? Just kidding, though I could see that building having something on it.

[TREY]

I was talking to some of the artist at art in the park and was told that a group of artist have lease part of the building next to the Hyatt (were the Atlanta bread company is located) and will be opening a gallery soon.

That's all the info I have, has anyone heard about this?

Also the space next to the fountain at river place is being up fitted and should be done soon.

I was told this space will sell gelato and small items for tourist.

[gs3]

I was talking to some of the artist at art in the park and was told that a group of artist have lease part of the building next to the Hyatt (were the Atlanta bread company is located) and will be opening a gallery soon.

That's all the info I have, has anyone heard about this?

Interesting. Isn't all the street level retail in this building full? There are stairs that go to a basement (this used to be Ivey's, so I would assume they had a full bargain basement). Would be great if this were a "down under" gallery.