Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[kermit]

^  Tolls on GA 400 certainly didn't hurt Atlanta, but congestion clearly did.

Edited October 11, 2015 by kermit

[Third Strike]

Meh... If tolls can accelerate the construction of new roads and lanes in the state, then I don't have a problem with it. They should actually pursue this for US 74 between the bypass and I-73/74 in Rockingham. I do think that once the bond is paid off, the road should become free to use. I also don't want anymore privatization deals, either.

[southslider]

The lack of public process will doom any construction project, tolled or not.

[dubone]

Meh... If tolls can accelerate the construction of new roads and lanes in the state, then I don't have a problem with it. They should actually pursue this for US 74 between the bypass and I-73/74 in Rockingham. I do think that once the bond is paid off, the road should become free to use. I also don't want anymore privatization deals, either.

I think there is a balance there.   They can't make enough on tolls to pay for a road like that on lower or seasonal traffic, so the toll amount would be higher to the people would not accept the price tag.  

 

I am slightly baffled by that section, though.   It is an obvious gap for the statewide system, yet it is such low priority that last I looked it was not even mentioned in the STIP.  

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/Planning Document Library/LIVE_STIP.pdf

 

It is a quirk of strategic versus incremental improvements, and it baffles the mind (and comes up often here and other places) that 74 has not been upgraded to Wilmington as a freeway yet.   Because if they did, then NC beaches and ports would be more competitive with Charleston beaches and ports.  But at the moment, Charleston's are closer for Charlotte residents

Edited October 11, 2015 by dubone

[Skyybutter]

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with 74 being all toll to the beach, not when the Triangle has that amazing wide open I-40. Why not just turned 74 into an interstate. Hasn't that been the plan for years anyway? Western NC and metro Charlotte deserve a a quick smooth ride to the NC beaches. Until then SC beaches remain the closest and smoothest route for us to take. 

[Third Strike]

I'm in favor of no tolls either, but I'm willing to compromise if it means upgrading the road within the next ten years, and not at least twenty. I think the priority right now for Charlotte highways is upgrading the two major interstates to at least eight to ten lanes, and upgrading US 74 in the MSA. Seems like the focus on the outlying counties is linking Asheville with Charlotte first, hence why there has been a strong push for expediting the Shelby Bypass with McCory's bonds. The missing link will likely get added to the STIP sometime after 2018 hopefully, especially since traffic on US 74 heading east might pick up some, since the Monroe Expressway will be complete. I also wouldn't worry about a toll road from here to Wilmington, since US 74 between Rockingham and Wilmington is part of the I-74 corridor, and will not be tolled (unless Congress passes a law that allows new interstates to be tolled).

[ah59396]

Has the city ever considered or proposed reducing the speed limit city wide to a set limit?  Like, 20-25mph?  I was thinking about it the other day while cars whizzed by me at 55mph on Park Rd as I ran down the sidewalk terrified for my life.  I can't really see a lot of net negatives that would result, and the positives (at least to me) appear obvious:

1.  A low limit of 20 - 25 mph would undoubtedly reduce both fatal accidents between 2 vehicles and fatal accidents involving pedestrians and cyclists

2.  A low limit would be a cost savings for the city, as less city services would be required to attend to car accidents (EMT, Fire, Police)

3.  A low, single limit city wide, would reduce the need for speed limit signs city-wide, an additional (albeit minor) cost savings

4.  A low limit, some studies suggest, actually can improve traffic flow - http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/make-a-change/take-action-with-us/20mph

5.  Reduction of noise pollution

6.  Potentially lower insurance premiums for auto owners living in a city that has significantly lower auto accidents

7.  A safer freaking city

 

Graz, in Austria, adopted a 30 kph (18 mph) limit through most of the city, cutting serious casualties by over a quarter and dramatically reducing noise and air pollution. Fewer than 5 people out of 10 supported the initiative when it was first introduced, but 8 out of 10 support it now.

 

So i'm curious as to other's thoughts.  Would it even be possible to support a city-wide initiative that maybe, keeps the interstate speed limits at 55 - 65mph, but requires all non-interstate roads systems within the city limits to operate at 25 mph?  I think it'd be awesome.

[elrodvt]

Has the city ever considered or proposed reducing the speed limit city wide to a set limit?  Like, 20-25mph?  I was thinking about it the other day while cars whizzed by me at 55mph on Park Rd as I ran down the sidewalk terrified for my life.  I can't really see a lot of net negatives that would result, and the positives (at least to me) appear obvious:

 

I like the idea but it has one flaw. There is virtually no traffic enforcement in Charlotte. The HOV lanes are dominated by driver only SUV's, no one stops at crosswalks or red lights, including the police, speed limits on main arteries such as park road are routinely exceeded by 20 or more MPH etc... I vote for red light cameras and camera radar as a first step.

[ah59396]

I like the idea but it has one flaw. There is virtually no traffic enforcement in Charlotte. The HOV lanes are dominated by driver only SUV's, no one stops at crosswalks or red lights, including the police, speed limits on main arteries such as park road are routinely exceeded by 20 or more MPH etc... I vote for red light cameras and camera radar as a first step.

Yeah, enforcement would be a glaring issue, and I agree about the HOV lanes.  Drives me crazy when I see it.

[Spartan]

I think a city-wide speedlimit of 25mph is a great idea, but with exceptions. It would never work on major thoroughfares because the roads are designed for higher speeds. Most people drive at a speed that feels comfortable on any given street, so arbitrarily lowering speed limits would probably create more problems with speeding.

That said, non-thoroughfares, neighborhood streets, and uptown should all have 20mph speed limits.

[dubone]

25mph?  Are you joking?   

 

I barely drive, but that would be ridiculous on a thoroughfare.   Just build sidewalks and protected bike lanes and let the cars go 55.  

[ah59396]

25mph?  Are you joking?   

 

I barely drive, but that would be ridiculous on a thoroughfare.   Just build sidewalks and protected bike lanes and let the cars go 55.  

I'm not joking.  And I'd be fine with better sidewalks and protected bike lanes, but we don't even meet the bare minimum in a lot of places.  So it's easier said than done.

[southslider]

Monday's start of construction for the toll lanes is really just preliminary site clearing. If the contractor team does all the early work shared with a single free lane widening, then that's just less work for a public project later. In other words, there still is plenty of time to stop the project and do a cheaper single free lane widening in Huntersville instead.  The contractors are even starting clearing in the section that most needs just one more free lane. Besides, there will be additional public votes between Monday and the private project's projected completion in 2018, including the election of Governor and even the MPO approval of a TIP update yet again.  Dissent will continue for another year at least.

Edited November 14, 2015 by southslider

[SgtCampsalot]

This is the biggest cluster of all time: Yes it's infuriating that it's being done by a foreign company with a crazy clause, but it feels like the ire of this is actually taking away from working on a North corridor transit line. Which is ironic.

[DMann]

See this:  http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-chicago-skyway-operator-sold-20151113-story.html  could that happen here?

[15895]

This is the biggest cluster of all time: Yes it's infuriating that it's being done by a foreign company with a crazy clause, but it feels like the ire of this is actually taking away from working on a North corridor transit line. Which is ironic.

what do you mean it's taking away from the transit line?

 

Im curious to know who here knew about the temporary gateway station before the day before Foxx announced it?  I do not recall at all hearing of the possibility of a temporary station being created and next thing you know Foxx rolls into town announcing grants for it. 

[kermit]

^ The Gateway grant was part of the normal TIGER grant process so the money didn't just fall from the sky. NCDOT had submitted the application, not the city. I did not realize the proposal included a temporary station, but I didn't look closely at it since I had assumed NCDOT was only requesting funds for track work.

[Third Strike]

Monday's start of construction for the toll lanes is really just preliminary site clearing. If the contractor team does all the early work shared with a single free lane widening, then that's just less work for a public project later. In other words, there still is plenty of time to stop the project and do a cheaper single free lane widening in Huntersville instead.  The contractors are even starting clearing in the section that most needs just one more free lane. Besides, there will be additional public votes between Monday and the private project's projected completion in 2018, including the election of Governor and even the MPO approval of a TIP update yet again.  Dissent will continue for another year at least.

I'm sure the I-77 toll opposition group has their crosshair on McCrory now. Definitely not good going in election year. I'm not expecting Iredell to go blue over a single issue like this, but it'll definitely be a lot closer than in 2012.

Regardless of the toll issue, I'm certainly happy that the infrastructure is finally being upgraded along this corridor. Just need to finish the rest of I-77 and US 74, along with a few parts of I-85, and I'll be content with our interstate/freeway network. Hopefully with a more transit friendly state government, more funding can be diverted to mass transit rather than "big ticket" projects like interstate widenings. I-85 being a consistent eight lanes through the Piedmont is good enough for me.

[elrodvt]

Well said third strike. And going "blue" can only help mass transit considering what the current group has done.

Edited November 14, 2015 by elrodvt
Mistake

[UPNoDa]

Say it isn't so.....

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/12520/10-things-you-dont-know-about-the-toll-lanes-planned-for-i-77-north/

[dcharlotte]

Reducing congestion is the "goal" of every transportation project - but one that has never been achieved. That top-ten list is a joke. 

[49er]

That is a really, really crappy, uninformed and biased article. But, most "news" in the 21st century seems opinion based so it's par for the course. The reality is, you just can't widen your way out of congestion and most people understand this. The NCDOT's stance is that toll lanes create travel dependability, meaning that you might pay the price once or twice a week or month if you were in a hurry. If it was just another general purpose lane, it would be clogged on day one.  

[southslider]

The new general purpose lane on 485 was clogged immediately during the peak of the peak. I don't think toll lane opponents expect free-flowing traffic in the peak of the peak.  However, it is fair to ask if 485 has 3 free lanes, and 85 has even 4 free lanes, why should 77 only have 2 free lanes?  Or conversely, why will 485 only have 1 toll lane, or even zero toll lanes on 85?

[dcharlotte]

1 hour ago, southslider said:

The new general purpose lane on 485 was clogged immediately during the peak of the peak. I don't think toll lane opponents expect free-flowing traffic in the peak of the peak.  However, it is fair to ask if 485 has 3 free lanes, and 85 has even 4 free lanes, why should 77 only have 2 free lanes?  Or conversely, why will 485 only have 1 toll lane, or even zero toll lanes on 85?

Why should the state continue to spend money just so you can have a parking lot that is just as wide as the other parking lots in the state? If anything, this is much better as people can pay for a dependable trip.

If you want to move the most people, you need to increase speeds. The tolled lanes will probably carry more people than the congested free lanes because the lanes will be moving.

[southslider]

^Because the state has widened without abandon virtually everywhere else. Until North Mecklenburg sees others being treated the same, they have reason to fight the project.