Who do we like for Governor?

[civitas]

I walked by the Big D this afternoon, he's unusually tan for this time of the year.

He's not that tan. Its just that his shirts are so unbelievably white.

[WOT]

In politics 101, they teach candidates to NEVER where a white shirt - from the Nixon vs. Kennedy debate.

[gvsusean]

If you're a libertarian, wouldn't you be against a Monarchy?

your right, all hail no one leader of nothing

[francishsu]

your right, all hail no one leader of nothing

Actually, you can rule all living things as a Libertarian... within your property boundaries.

[gvsusean]

Actually, you can rule all living things as a Libertarian... within your property boundaries.

and only on the ninth of skittles

[michaelskis]

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5459950

Debates times:

Monday, October 2. 8 pm WKAR in East Lansing

Tuesday, October 10. 8 pm at Wood TV8

Thursday, October 12 (Informal joint appearance) Detroit's Economic Club

Monday, October 16 8pm WXYZ in Detroit

Regardless of whom you want to vote for, I think that it would be a good idea for everyone to watch, and regardless of who wins, I think that it is our duty to demand that they actually do what they propose. Additionally, I think that the governor should only get paid no more than the median family income on January 1st of each year. ($68,800 right now)

*Note that I am done debating politics since everyone is so ingrained in their ideological believes about a particular party, most of the discussion is completely unnecessary.

[Rizzo]

What does everyone think about Devos' idea of banning lobbyist trips? I think it seems like a good idea in theory, but I think it could become anti-business. Kind of like asking a child to hold a peice of candy and not eating it...

[RustTown]

I tend to agree. In theory, it sounds like a wonderful idea. But, again, this looks to be another hollow attempt by the man to win votes. Of course he'd be the one that calls for this. He's so rich it wouldn't bother him, anyway. Many tend to forget that not all politicians are jet-setting millionaires and more. Quite a few subside soley off of the salary they get with the job.

I do think there needs to be some kind of reform of the whole thing, but this seems like too much, too soon, at least. And, coming from DeVos it just sounds like total pandering, sorry. I hope he finds and issue and sticks with it until November. I just see a guy reaching for straws. Last week it was ID, now it's lobbyist reform....He needs to stick with our poor economy. That's the only way he'll have a chance of winning. I see a man finally realizing that it's much harder to buy an election with a fancy advertisement campaign than he thought.

[TJSupreme]

This one's easy. What has Jen done in 4 years? I voted for her 4 years ago, i admit it. Trucks of canadian garbage are still commin into the state. Guess she discovered our budget kinda requires it...who knew? We have the worst unemployment rate of the lower 48 states, after Engler held us better than the national average during his time. I realize Engler left her with a bit of a mess, but come on, worst? A governor has to be a leader, not a lawyer. I remember Engler promising to dramatically cut property taxes and everyone pretty much figured it was a b.s. campain promise. But guess what, he did it and it helped in bringing a stagnant state up among the economic leaders. Leader. This SBT talk is overrated, but as an example, did Jen offer any solutions? NO, she asked for the congress to SHOW her how to replace it. NOT a leader. Dick made a move with Alticor in firing up china operations..took a chance really, not like china was exactly a trustworthy country to do business in. It worked. Leader. Now Jen tries to say he sent Michigan jobs to China...um, ya...show me one Alticor product here that says "made in china". I'm sure if there was one Jen would have it plastered on our TV's. My favorite Jen commercial is the one where she says she's tough on oil companies and mentions her takin some stations to court during 9-11. Was she Governor then? Um, no. That is the ONLY good thing in her career she can point to. Did she do anything about the high gas prices while she was governor?? Um, no. I'd vote for Jen in a heart beat for Attorney General, but not for Governor. I don't care about hype, and ya, someone mentioned Betsy who i strongly dislike, I care about who gives Michigan the best shot at a stong diversified economy. Someone who has shown vision. Dick DeVos.

[michaelskis]

This one's easy. What has Jen done in 4 years? I voted for her 4 years ago, i admit it. Trucks of canadian garbage are still commin into the state. Guess she discovered our budget kinda requires it...who knew? We have the worst unemployment rate of the lower 48 states, after Engler held us better than the national average during his time. I realize Engler left her with a bit of a mess, but come on, worst? A governor has to be a leader, not a lawyer. I remember Engler promising to dramatically cut property taxes and everyone pretty much figured it was a b.s. campain promise. But guess what, he did it and it helped in bringing a stagnant state up among the economic leaders. Leader. This SBT talk is overrated, but as an example, did Jen offer any solutions? NO, she asked for the congress to SHOW her how to replace it. NOT a leader. Dick made a move with Alticor in firing up china operations..took a chance really, not like china was exactly a trustworthy country to do business in. It worked. Leader. Now Jen tries to say he sent Michigan jobs to China...um, ya...show me one Alticor product here that says "made in china". I'm sure if there was one Jen would have it plastered on our TV's. My favorite Jen commercial is the one where she says she's tough on oil companies and mentions her takin some stations to court during 9-11. Was she Governor then? Um, no. That is the ONLY good thing in her career she can point to. Did she do anything about the high gas prices while she was governor?? Um, no. I'd vote for Jen in a heart beat for Attorney General, but not for Governor. I don't care about hype, and ya, someone mentioned Betsy who i strongly dislike, I care about who gives Michigan the best shot at a stong diversified economy. Someone who has shown vision. Dick DeVos.

I was not a big fan of Engler... between the two, I would have picked Jen.

[GRobserver]

Nice Dick DeVos ad at the bottom of this thread, lol.

[Sunlover38]

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5459950

Regardless of whom you want to vote for, I think that it would be a good idea for everyone to watch, and regardless of who wins, I think that it is our duty to demand that they actually do what they propose. Additionally, I think that the governor should only get paid no more than the median family income on January 1st of each year. ($68,800 right now)

*

You figure out a way to make a politician come through on what they say they will do and you will be ruler of the world - - lol

[francishsu]

I think you just need to look at the big pieces of legislation that the state legislature tried to pass, that Granholm vetoed. Then you ask yourself, is this something Devos would have signed. Then you'll get an idea of what Devos is going to do. Granholm exercised the most vetoes in state history, so you know that there's alot of legislation that will be brought back up if Devos gets elected.

[torgo]

I think you just need to look at the big pieces of legislation that the state legislature tried to pass, that Granholm vetoed. Then you ask yourself, is this something Devos would have signed. Then you'll get an idea of what Devos is going to do. Granholm exercised the most vetoes in state history, so you know that there's alot of legislation that will be brought back up if Devos gets elected.

Well there is nothing wrong with using vetos, I could think of some other "leaders" who could do some more of that.

[jwazzz]

Other - I'll never vote Republican or Democrat again - they're all bought and paid for.

[GRDadof3]

Other - I'll never vote Republican or Democrat again - they're all bought and paid for.

Hmmm, so they're debt free. Not a bad way to go..

Just saw a new ad by Devos talking about banning all lobbyists contributions. "I'm not running for governor to have the job, I'm running to do the job" Not bad, simple, powerful.

[TJSupreme]

I was not a big fan of Engler... between the two, I would have picked Jen.

By the end of Engler's time i was sick of him myself..that's why i voted for Jen over that Postmaster, er Postdigger, er Posthumerous, or whatever. I can't argue with his numbers though. Do a search, the Governors prior to him always saddled us with horrible unemployment and used the auto industry as their excuse. Things turned around under him..was that because of him? who knows, but he held our unemployment in check through a recession. I'm 100% independent..voted Clinton, Dole, GW, and Kerry the last 4 elections. I wish we could get DeVos and one of the houses to move democrat to make sure he has a check on what he does.

I remember Jen's response to plant closures on the west side of the state, she said something like 'they have to move away from manufacturing and into biotech'. Not much help. After the Electrolux fiasco she gave up.

Veto's were talked about...i like vetos, but i'd think there would be a more constructive way to work with the state congress to get some balanced legislation. Reagan was a master of this when he was dealing with a democratic congress....but then, he was a leader, not a lawyer.

I really think DeVos has the leadership skills to bring this state back. I've seen first hand plants moving production out of this state to other states...Arizona, Tennessee, Alabama, Ohio...not just Mexico and China...this tells me something is very wrong with the way our state conducts business. Ohio is going to corner the market on distribution if we don't get our act together.

[Rizzo]

[rant, not directed at anyone]As I sit here I laugh when anyone tells us that we have to ditch manufacturing completely for something else. Manufacturing is, has, and will always be the lifeblood of Grand Rapids. Idea makers in tune with manufacturers make our economy -- so when the folks up on the Medical Mile create something physical and patent it they won't send the blue prints anywhere, but here in Grand Rapids. Our manufactures aren't just push button operators they are skilled in technology and process. Skilled in turning raw material into tangible product -- reaping the rewards of buying bulk raw material and making huge overhead. Dick Devos/Jennifer Granholm have no "job creation" footing in GR, I'm told were doing great. .02cents[/rant]

[snoogit]

I really think DeVos has the leadership skills to bring this state back. I've seen first hand plants moving production out of this state to other states...Arizona, Tennessee, Alabama, Ohio...not just Mexico and China...this tells me something is very wrong with the way our state conducts business. Ohio is going to corner the market on distribution if we don't get our act together.

You forgot Canada, where most of Michigan's jobs have actually moved to, and who has a tax system that some would say is prohibitively anti-business. (I read somewhere that Ontario now produces more cars then Detroit)

Before you point to states and blame it on unions, or minimum wage, or the SBT, what does canada offer a manufacturer over Michigan? The taxes appear to be worse, the wages higher, and unions are stronger there then here!

reason Numero Uno:

Healthcare costs. Canada foots most of the bill of healthcare, whereas here in the US the companies foot 80% of the bill generally.

Its what will eventually drive manufacturers out of the US entirely! Tennesee, Arizona, and Alabama are merely stopgaps to eventually leaving the country. The only reason they don't do it sooner is because its not easy to leave the country to go overseas.

Most Mighican manufacturing jobs aren't going to China either. You wont see Ford, GM, or Daimler moving there. What you might see though is Ford, GM, and Daimler moving into Mexico, Canada, and Daimler moving everything to Europe.

Why? Because of healthcare costs.

You want to fix manufacturing here in the US, and Michigan? you've got to get the healthcare costs off the employer's backs.

THe only canidate who seems to have gotten it is Jennifer Granholm, who has proposed a state-funded healthcare insurance program for those who are uninsured. Its only a start, but its whats needed if we are to keep manufacturing jobs here.

What is the fundamental problem with manufacturing in the US? its costs too much to do business here! Taxes and wages are not the problem, its healthcare, healthcare, healthcare! Its what the companies have been SCREAMING to us, but we don't seem to do a damn thing about it.

[krylonics]

Massachusetts has a higher rate of taxation and yet their economy continues to grow, the trickle down economy argument is rendered moot. One thing Mass now has is state sponsored healthcare.

[TJSupreme]

I don't think "trickle down" really applies on a state level. Our state business taxes need to be simplified, not necessarily cut, and set up to encourage expansion. Health care is certainly a huge issue. Maybe i'm naive, but I'd think Mr. DeVos has spent a lot of time over the years with business owners, both on a business and personal level, talking about what is wrong now what would help keep companies here and grow.

[TJSupreme]

"Back in 1987, GM initially planned on closing its Ste. Therese assembly plant, which would've put thousands of employees out of work. Opened in 1965, Ste. Therese was Quebec's only automotive assembly plant, and was a key contributor to Quebec's economy. The Quebec government was willing to go the extra mile to keep it open. Both the government of Quebec and the government of Canada along with the local Canadian Auto Workers union stepped in with an almost irresistible package for GM. The governments granted GM a 220 million dollar (Canadian) interest-free loan, payable in 30 years. Both the Quebec and Ottawa governments each contributed 110 million each. GM also was awarded over 100 million dollars in tax breaks to keep the plant open." Don't tell me companies set up shop in Canada just for Health care. This was to save about 3000 jobs and by the time the plant closed in 2002 they had 1200 workers.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/...evrolet_camaro/

[krylonics]

If you look at some of the organizations DeVos helps fund you'll see his support for big and intrusive government. His foundation has given money to the likes of the Acton Foundation, The Heritage Foundation, and Focus on the Family. Remember his ten million dollars wasted on the school vouchers initiative. Being someone who sent my child to Catholic school I still opposed the idea of the state funding what was essentially a religous choice. Also, Ruth Johnson has continually voted agianst school funding. The truth is DeVos will probably not do any better for the Michigan economy than Granholm, but even if he could his social standings are somewhat scary. I love his commercial stating he had to build in China to sell in China........hmmm, maybe they are on to something there......oh, thats not very free trade of me is it. Ah Ha, free trade...maybe that could have something to do with our current problems.

[6th Gen local]

Nice Dick DeVos ad at the bottom of this thread, lol.

Ads? What are these ads that you talk of?

**Firefox browser with adblock plus has made me forget that webpages have ads.

[torgo]

Has anyone else noticed that the anti-DeVos ads all seem to run with emphasis on certain words?

DICK Devos built a factory in China, then DICK came home and asked for tax breaks for Amway, which DICK got through his republican friends in Congress.