Who do we like for Governor?

[kives1985]

I don't think there is anything the governor can do really to help the economy of Michigan. It's mostly outsourcing that's hurting our economy. So, I am voting for her, even though I might vote third party. Throw my vote away. Anyways, Dick Devos wants to teach creationism in our public schools, which is BS.

[WOT]

By the way, was it me or was that DARTH VADER in the backround

[dbrok]

I think DeVos got off to a slow start but picked up steam and Granholm faltered as the debate wore on. From DeVos I get the impression of political inexperience (which he mostly is), but from Granholm I got a defensive vibe. She was kind of rude interrupting DeVos repeatedly and had a somewhat negative attitude. Still, it seems like there is no clear winner; neither are spectacular candidates.

[dbrok]

Anyways, Dick Devos wants to teach creationism in our public schools, which is BS.

I'm going to have to take issue with that statement. I believe it's important to teach both evolution and creation because it's important to present both sides of an issue. Students can only benefit from learning multiple viewpoints and then drawing their own conclusions, especially when it's in regard to a topic as important as creation vs. evolution.

[tamias6]

I felt that Granholm was more direct in answering the moderators' questions for the most part where as Devos just kept saying the same political rhetoric over and over again.

[francishsu]

I'm going to have to take issue with that statement. I believe it's important to teach both evolution and creation because it's important to present both sides of an issue. Students can only benefit from learning multiple viewpoints and then drawing their own conclusions, especially when it's in regard to a topic as important as creation vs. evolution.

And do you, like Devos, also believe that Creationism is proper material for a science class?

[RustTown]

DeVos far-right personal views are a given, and I don't think it is much help to continue to argue in a circle about them. The guy is far more important things to pick at, IMO. It is incumbent upon the challenger to show that he knows more than the governor. Perhaps he can redeem himself in the next two debates, because tonight was a clear hit and a miss. He looked like a total robot. Seriously, as bad as Granholm was, the DeVos could have been replaced by a cardboard cutout and it wouldn't have made much of a difference. He seemed totally out of touch/aloof, and for me, you're going to have to offer much more than "I'm not Granholm" to get my vote. I don't think you'll find a Michigander out there that doesn't believe we need to see change quicker than we are, but does that make Cyborg DeVos the guy for the job? Hardly. If anything, the debate proved how in-the-know DeVos is, which is not every much, at all.

I wasn't much impressed with either, but I was actually waiting and giving DeVos a chance to surprise me. He did no such thing. The fact is, Granholm has nothing to lose in these debates. The pressure is on DeVos to show the leader that he really is, and if he showed that tonight, I'm completely underwhelmed and unimpressed. His personal beliefs aside, I wanted someone who looked at least as confident as quick as Engler. DeVos came off as a shell of a leader, the Scarecrow they dressed up in a fancy suit and not much else. Sorry. People have always accussed Granholm of being nothing more than a face and charasmatic character; all talk and no substance. DeVos was even worse. It's no secret who I supported coming into this, but I was waiting for DeVos to surprise me, and he didn't.

[GRDadof3]

I thought Granholm had that "Nixon sheen" going on a lot. She looked very uncomfortable defending her dismal term as Governor. Even though the automotive industry has been the largest contributor to our woes, all I heard from Granholm was " what are you going to do". "It's all because of free trade and unfair trade policies". How about bringing new employers and opportunities gov.

I do have to say though that I unfortunately stumbled upon Wisconsin's gubernatorial debate a couple of weeks ago, and those two guys were the biggest sounding and looking buffoons (but still debating the exact same issues as Michigan: lost jobs, fleeing college grads, high tax structure, etc).

Devos did not do well, but it was his first real debate. He seemed to struggle to formulate his sentences at times. Granholm, being an ex prosecutor and current governor, should have done much better. Her "restrained tears" about the abortion question and stem cell research were pretty fake to me, and her throwing in the "faith/pastor/husband was going to be a priest" sound bites at the end were VERY MUCH pandering to the other side (you have to admit LMichigan).

BTW: I always found it difficult to watch Engler speak. The darting eyes and the uneven speech was weird.

[francishsu]

If Granholm did "much better", she would have absolutely destroyed Devos. Instead, she just simply did better. This is the first time I've seen Granholm debate. Did anyone watch the Granholm - Posthumus debates? I'm curious how this one compared to those.

[francishsu]

By the way, what's the deal with the the Board of Water Commissioners? I'm not familiar with that issue. Is the scope of that the Detroit metro area or does it impact other parts of Michigan?

[snoogit]

If Granholm did "much better", she would have absolutely destroyed Devos. Instead, she just simply did better. This is the first time I've seen Granholm debate. Did anyone watch the Granholm - Posthumus debates? I'm curious how this one compared to those.

She was a lot better in those debates, Posthumus really just didn't show up, he gave the impression that he conceded defeat in the first debate, and never really took off.

I really think the last four years have put tremendous strain on her, and while she came out ahead (Although it was like the Tigers' this season who just sort of 'slid into' the playoffs.) I think she needs to refocus, get a moderator who isn't a complete jack*** (I swear he interrupted the two more often then Granholm, or Devos did each other.)

I don't know the debates that will happen, but if there is a Q&A session with the audience, thats the kind debate I think Granholm could excel in.

Devos would do better in the type of debates that let you say your statement, and then have the opposition read their statement, and go back and forth never even having to acknowledge each other.

[Allison Slater]

Anyone know where I can find video of the debate or maybe just a transcript? I was at work the whole time.

[RustTown]

By the way, what's the deal with the the Board of Water Commissioners? I'm not familiar with that issue. Is the scope of that the Detroit metro area or does it impact other parts of Michigan?

It's just a Metro Detroit thing that comes up anytime every so often. Detroit, having constructed the entire system, and investing more than any other suburbs, has final say in the rates they charge their customers. The suburbs want more control. It's pretty much the last leveraging chip the declined Detroit has with the suburbs, and the suburbs are very eager to take that last chip away.

Snoogit, are you talking about moderator Tim Stubick? I guess I'm just used to him as a Lansing establishment, because I'd actually like to have had him move the debate even faster than he did. I'm surprised the moderators allowed them to go on as long as they did. At times, it got painful to watch BOTH candidates go on, and on, and on...basically about nothing or repeating themselves.

[Rizzo]

BTW WoodTV 8 is offering you the chance to submit questions that could be asked at their next debate at the WOOD studio...

[snoogit]

Snoogit, are you talking about moderator Tim Stubick? I guess I'm just used to him as a Lansing establishment, because I'd actually like to have had him move the debate even faster than he did. I'm surprised the moderators allowed them to go on as long as they did. At times, it got painful to watch BOTH candidates go on, and on, and on...basically about nothing or repeating themselves.

I was irked the wrong way by him. I agree the debate needed to be moved along, but he would interject at places I thought were totally innapropriate.

[blueradon]

Yeah I think the moderators were not very professional and it seemed kind of rude...but at another point anytime DeVos was asked a yes or no question, he went off into space with some storytelling and that just completely turned me off and the moderator had to keep interrupting him for that...and I also agree that he looked like a pre-programmed robot who was similar to a middle school kid giving a class presentation reciting his notecards. D- for Dick.

I feel that Granholm wasn't at her complete best, but she slapped DeVos pretty damn well, and I think she has the definite upper hand for winning that debate. It was a little rude for her to interrupt DeVos during one of his "speeches," but I like a governor with a little attitude and isn't afraid to get all up in someone's business...but at the same time she seemed a little cocky and overconfident sometimes. But I felt her overdetailed information is what I definitely wanted to hear as a voter.

I think Granholm was trying to hold back a little bit for the next debates, and I can't wait to see the debate with the audience present...

But as far as my 0.02, I'm voting for a governor that has plans and not speech presentations and a wealthy inherited business...my vote will be going to granholm.

[dbrok]

And do you, like Devos, also believe that Creationism is proper material for a science class?

I don't know what DeVos believes, but I do believe Creationism is relevant for a science class alongside evolution. The reason is simple: there are scientists in all fields that approach topics from an evolutionist standpoint and there are scientists that work from an intelligent design/creationism standpoint. It's important therefore to understand where both groups are coming from and how and why they arrive at certain deductions and hypotheses. And when it comes down to it, in some ways evolution and creation aren't that different--they both take a little bit of faith.

[GR_Urbanist]

I'm not seeing this incredible performance by the governor that her supports are claiming took place. Just more "its everyone else's fault but mine" wishy-washy talk that has been the cornerstone of her re-election. Granted, the first "debate" is never hall of fame material, but when you are the governor of a state in this much economic trouble, you should come across a bit more in charge. It is also the job of the incumbent to show the results of their four years in office.

I just don't think she has any obvious results to highlight.

[Lplan]

Remember "Mystery Science Theatre 3000"? It was like that in the Dem HQ on Cherry Street. Next debate, we're going to make it a drinking game. Every time DV says that he is so very "disappointed," take a drink.

Sure beat sittin' home with the funky TV antennas connected to coax, coathanger, and duct tape.

My roommate and I had a drink every time DeVos said "disappointed," "michigan jobs," or "leadership."

We got very drunk.

(Don't worry, we also drank at Granholm's phrases. including "But Tim..." and "Engler")

[Veloise]

Anyone know where I can find video of the debate or maybe just a transcript? I was at work the whole time.

It's being broadcast on WGVU radio RIGHT NOW!!

And I just found this link for a replay: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/myfox/pages/Ho...mp;pageId=1.1.1

[Veloise]

It's just a Metro Detroit thing that comes up anytime every so often. Detroit, having constructed the entire system, and investing more than any other suburbs, has final say in the rates they charge their customers. The suburbs want more control. It's pretty much the last leveraging chip the declined Detroit has with the suburbs, and the suburbs are very eager to take that last chip away.

Snoogit, are you talking about moderator Tim Stubick? I guess I'm just used to him as a Lansing establishment, because I'd actually like to have had him move the debate even faster than he did. I'm surprised the moderators allowed them to go on as long as they did. At times, it got painful to watch BOTH candidates go on, and on, and on...basically about nothing or repeating themselves.

I knew Tim Skubick in the late 70's when I was at the local Big Ten U. (He was the announcer for the marching band.) Funny, he doesn't look like he's 25+ years older. We used to call him "Skubie."

IMHO several of his questions were completely out of left field. Ricky Holland? C'mon. How about the woman shot and killed in DT Detroit during pre-SBXL events?

[civitas]

I'm not seeing this incredible performance by the governor that her supports are claiming took place. Just more "its everyone else's fault but mine" wishy-washy talk that has been the cornerstone of her re-election. Granted, the first "debate" is never hall of fame material, but when you are the governor of a state in this much economic trouble, you should come across a bit more in charge. It is also the job of the incumbent to show the results of their four years in office.

I just don't think she has any obvious results to highlight.

One of DeVos' better responses, "I find it amazing to hear the governor say that her plan is working when so many people in Michigan are not."

[francishsu]

I don't know what DeVos believes, but I do believe Creationism is relevant for a science class alongside evolution. The reason is simple: there are scientists in all fields that approach topics from an evolutionist standpoint and there are scientists that work from an intelligent design/creationism standpoint. It's important therefore to understand where both groups are coming from and how and why they arrive at certain deductions and hypotheses. And when it comes down to it, in some ways evolution and creation aren't that different--they both take a little bit of faith.

Devos' position on this issue is consistent with yours then. And I don't believe it is representative of the majority of the people in any state in this nation. Scientific research into ID is certainly understandable, but introducing it at the K-12 level in science class is simply putting the cart before the horse. And I suspect that many of the ID supporters, who seem to be out to "prove" that their faith is fact, are not going to be so thrilled with some of the future research it's going to spawn.

[localtalent]

Devos' position on this issue is consistent with yours then. And I don't believe it is representative of the majority of the people in any state in this nation. Scientific research into ID is certainly understandable, but introducing it at the K-12 level in science class is simply putting the cart before the horse. And I suspect that many of the ID supporters, who seem to be out to "prove" that their faith is fact, are not going to be so thrilled with some of the future research it's going to spawn.

Huh? You think research is going to disprove Intelligent Design? Could you explain how?

I'm pretty far right on lots of things, and think ID discussions are wholly appropriate in our schools.

But not in science classes.

Honest, serious proponents of ID admit that our current understanding of evolution, while not perfect, is the best explanation of what we see in the fossil, biological and genetic record. That's what should be taught in science classes.

I think ID/creationism/evolution is a wonderful thing to have high school kids explore and debate as a philosophical or even public speaking/debate exercise.

[francishsu]

Huh? You think research is going to disprove Intelligent Design? Could you explain how?

Where did I say research is ever going to disprove Intelligent Design? In fact, no research can disprove a Creationist theory, because of our miniscule presence and understanding of the universe. All I said is that I think many proponents of ID are going to come to regret some of the research that is spawned by it. How do you feel about creating genetically engineered advanced life forms? That's one way of providing strong support for ID. If we achieve that, then we could have very well been engineered ourselves. And if we were engineered, then what's wrong with mankind becoming creators of new life forms as well?