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Who do we like for Governor?

GaryP

By GaryP
in Grand Rapids Coffee House

Who do we like for Governor II?  

118 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do we like for Governor II?

    • Jennifer Granholm
      57
    • Dick DeVos
      58
    • Other
      3

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Veloise City

Veloise

Posted
Posted

^geez, that's not sexist or anything.

Kind of like DeVos saying (interview in GR Magazine) that one reason to vote for him is that there wouldn't be a First Gentleman drawing a salary if he won.

Speaking of GR Mag...

"My opponent has set new spending records in every election she has run in... And I will not be at all surprised if we are outspent in this race by my opponent."

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francishsu Hamlet

francishsu

Posted
Posted

New SurveyUSA poll has Granholm - Devos at 50 - 45

Details

Another poll having her hit the 50% mark. And the demographics of this one seem reasonable, 49% male, 51% female. Devos is still holding his conservative base, but is lost ground with Independent voters. No surprise, given his poor performance in the last debate.

Granholm would have had the opportunity for a knockout blow in tonight's debate, but how many people are going to be watching with the Tigers playing tonight? Unless one of them commits a gaffe, I expect Granholm will continue to hold her lead until debate #3.

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francishsu Hamlet

francishsu

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It's halfway through the debate...looks like DeVos sure stepped up his aggressivness since the last time.

He did a good job attacking her, and also did better at defending himself this time. He was still very vague on his solutions, and ultimately his message was that if the state was a business, then Granholm should be fired. Some people might be swayed by that analogy, but I think and hope that most undecided voters will be disappointed once again with his inability or unwillingness to put forth specific innovative proposals. The only specifics I could recall was proposing to get rid of personal property tax entirely and shorting the permit period to 30 days.

Granholm did a good job talking more about the 21 Century Jobs Fund, and presented concrete examples of job creation. The one thing I did not like was that her tone was too pleading at times, as if she felt that people were not going to be convinced by simply and clearly stating her solutions to diversify this economy.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that Devos changed his position on abortion during the debate. I hope he gets called on that flip-flop. And he also actually had the gall to say that there was no better advocate of public schools than him.

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Michi Burg

Michi

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Posted

On the other hand, DeVos new commercial showing that the amount of Michigan jobs loss since Granholm has taken office could fill two Comerica Parks is another very good strategy. I think that's his best commercial yet.

I couldn't disagree more. This is the commercial that came out AFTER the first debate. This is also the commercial that stated clearly that Granholm didn't meet with Toyota AGAIN! (This was mentioned before). Granholm made CLEAR that she met with Toyota on her first trip to Japan and that HER TEAM met with Toyota on her second trip.

It is because of that nonsense that I nominate this to be the WORST and most pathetic commercial by the DeVos campaign yet. On the contrary, I thought the response by the Democratic Party was pretty creative revealing that DeVos' $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that supported Bush legislation cost Michigan 100s of thousands of jobs...enough to fill Detroit's stadium not one, not two, not three, but four times over.

I would like to know how giving tax breaks to a company sending jobs out of Michigan (which costs us a lot of money and resources) makes economic sense.

Hey, LMich, I saw that banner on a DeVos van at Spartan Stadium against Minnesota last year.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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I would like to know how giving tax breaks to a company sending jobs out of Michigan (which costs us a lot of money and resources) makes economic sense.

Has Google opened up any facilities overseas? How about Toyota? Should Google or Toyota be given any tax breaks to open facilities here in Michigan then, since they send jobs overseas? Maybe they shouldn't.

I think Granholm's statement about "victims" of the global economy exposed her for who she is, and that's exactly why she has failed to move Michigan forward. You have to learn to thrive in the global economy, not fight it and blame Bush. It's here to stay, and the competition and opportunities are going to increase, not decrease. The companies in Michigan that are doing very well now are ones that have significant market presence in other countries. The people who work for those companies are not "victims", they are the "victors".

Plus, during the "mud-slinging" question, she shoved more information dumping into that segment then I've ever seen in a political candidate do. It was very amateurish.

Plus, Michigan automakers cut 100,000's of jobs, not because of free trade agreements, but because they build an inferior product that fewer and fewer people want. The writing was on the wall on that one long before she came into office. Why did she not start "planting seeds" when she took office, when Michigan was well into its steep decline, and help replace these auto plant jobs with something else?

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francishsu Hamlet

francishsu

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Posted

Has Google opened up any facilities overseas? How about Toyota? Should Google or Toyota be given any tax breaks to open facilities here in Michigan then, since they send jobs overseas? Maybe they shouldn't.

I think a tax break makes sense if the company is required to create jobs in Michigan in return. It would have to be legally enforcable. If the company doesn't meet their obligation, they would need to reimburse the state at the very least.

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tamias6 Town

tamias6

Posted
Posted

I watch tonight's debate. Personaly I find Devos unimpressive, he keeps saying "We Need Change" but how's he going to do that. On the other hand, Granholm not only answered question but laid out examples and acomplishments and gave a pretty good idea of what she's going to do next. Devos, was rhetoric as usual. So from the way I see it, its a choice between sombody experienced in Michigan's political system or a beer fart in a whirlwind. So far its odvious where my vote's going.

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Michi Burg

Michi

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Granholm is not fighting the global economy. She acknowledged that when she said Michigan has the most aggressive economic development strategy in the country in order to diversify itself and adapt to globalization. Economic development is not defined by incentivising DeVos job cuts at his company here and create them in China while receiving that "11th hour deal" by the feds. That's like saying, "Hey, Toyota (or company X)...we'll pay you NOT to come here."

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TJSupreme Unincorporated Area

TJSupreme

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Posted

So, let me get this straight...some of you think Mr. DeVos should have ignored the oportunity in China and all the sales the company generated there potentially putting Alticor out of business and the remaining workers here out of work. Makes sense :blink: Alticor/Amway/whatever has lost market share here much the same as the auto business has and u don't keep the same number of workers on your staff if your sales are down 20%. Maybe some really really wish they could make the product here and sell it in china..but that's simply not reality.

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RustTown City

RustTown

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TJ, the governor, herself, made the point of saying that as a president DeVos was beholden to his shareholders/company and doing what was right for them. However, it is completely relevant to to question his hypocrisy implying that Granholm is a jobs killer, while he cut over a thousand jobs in Michigan, regardless of whether it was good or not for Amway. He can't have it both ways, and it's a completely legitimate question to wonder about who will he be beholden to as governor of Michigan. It's also a legitimate issue to question how his business ideology will translate into public service, as he seems to get board with public service rather quickly (i.e. quitting education boards he was appointed to by Engler).

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michaelskis Hamlet

michaelskis

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As I was getting home yesterday, I was greeted by supporters of one candidate on one side of the street, and another candidate on the other side of the street, and the green party down the street.

I watched the debates and thought that both made some good points, both made some lousy arguments, and was surprised on how much they agree on.

If you watched (during the commercial breaks from some base ball game) what did you think of it? Do you think that there was a winner? Anything new?

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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Posted

We have too many threads about the election. I'm merging this with the other one.

Economic development is not defined by incentivising DeVos job cuts at his company here and create them in China while receiving that "11th hour deal" by the feds. That's like saying, "Hey, Toyota (or company X)...we'll pay you NOT to come here."

I know what you're saying Michi, and they've done a good job convincing people that that's exactly how it happened "if you do "x", we'll do "y", and you'll walk away with "z" number of dollars. It's a causational equation that's been created for how it didn't transpire.

That's why I use the example of Toyota. At the exact moment that the governor signs the tax breaks for the new tech center, Toyota may decide to open a new plant in Thailand, and reduce one assembly line at their plant in Erlanger, KY. Does that mean they received tax breaks to cut jobs in the U.S. and create jobs in Thailand? No, but that's what people would like you to believe.

Same with GM. They have plants all over the world. When they received tax breaks to open their new Delta Township plant (even though they simultaneously drastically cut their workforce in Lansing), did GM at the same time ramp up production in Chzekoslavakia? To me, that also would equate to giving tax breaks in Michigan to create jobs overseas if you use the same false equation.

I totally agree that in order to get tax breaks here in Michigan, there have to be jobs produced at the facility that is getting the tax breaks, which is measurable and controllable. But how can you then dictate to that company what investments they make overseas?

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Veloise City

Veloise

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Posted

As I was getting home yesterday, I was greeted by supporters of one candidate on one side of the street, and another candidate on the other side of the street, and the green party down the street....

DV on the right side, G4G on the left. We had a 3-to-1 plurality, with at least 100 when I counted the attendance. More than a couple of my group noticed that the DV sign-holders all seemed to be college kid age, while our group ran the gamut of voter demographics. (Seniors, boomers, college kids, guys in suits, minorities, teamsters...)

dvrally.jpg

g4grally.jpg

After welcoming the alternative fuel SUV's arrival, we headed down to Cherry St for more hilarity. The first "disappointed" was met with loud cheers.

With 15 minutes left, we all propelled ourselves back to WOOD for an outdoor pep rally. This was held by the back door exit. Interestingly, DV walked out by himself, with just a few staffers (I'm guessing). He waved and grinned at us while we chanted "four more years," then got into his white SUV and left. (No DV supporters holding signs were present.)

When the gov walked out, she had a whole mess o' people with her, including Dan and Jack. (It turns out that the candidates were allowed to have eight people with them attending the debate. It did not appear that DV took advantage of that.) There was a huge cluster of TV cameras and mics under a canopy out back, plus the 100 of us with signs. (This was state-wide media. I talked to a photog from the Freep, and I'm guessing the other Detroit outlets sent someone.)

You'd think that the DV team would take advantage of any available opportunity to present their message, but he was lonnnnggggg gone.

(There's an entertaining yard sign event ongoing on Maryland Street just south of Michigan. Apparently someone keeps swiping the G4G signage, and the homeowner posts other signs expressing an opinion. One of the college kids left behind a DV sign, so this morning I contributed it to this cause.)

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michaelskis Hamlet

michaelskis

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Posted

DV on the right side, G4G on the left. We had a 3-to-1 plurality, with at least 100 when I counted the attendance. More than a couple of my group noticed that the DV sign-holders all seemed to be college kid age, while our group ran the gamut of voter demographics. (Seniors, boomers, college kids, guys in suits, minorities, teamsters...)

And one green Olds Allero that was partly blocking me in from leaving to run to B-dubs for my Tuesday addiction! It took forever for my fianc

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michaelskis Hamlet

michaelskis

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This doesn't seem like an insurmountable problem. Cherry Street was completely unimpeded. There were a couple of beat cops ticketing cars parked on College. Seems like the security guard at WOOD's south entrance could have been asked for help, or the passenger could have gotten out to check for traffic. (The people and signs were on the sidewalks and the parkways, not in the street, and there was no one near the entrance to Hillmount's lot.)

It was a problem given that the lot that I park in is off of College right next to Wood TV8

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