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Who do we like for Governor?

GaryP

By GaryP
in Grand Rapids Coffee House

Who do we like for Governor II?  

118 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do we like for Governor II?

    • Jennifer Granholm
      57
    • Dick DeVos
      58
    • Other
      3

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civitas Burg

civitas

Posted
Posted

I predicted that Devos might get more votes from the East side of the State (wealthier Oakland, Macomb, Livingston counties), then he would from the Grand Rapids area, I think mainly because of this area's love/hate relationship with Amway.

The survey shows DeVos ahead 55% to 41% in the Detroit suburbs, 48% to 46% in Grand Rapids and 49% to 43% in "the Rest of Michigan". Granholm leads 32% to 64% in Wayne County only.

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Veloise City

Veloise

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Posted

That's a problem for her IMO. Many Detroiters dont feel like she's done a whole lot for them and I wouldnt be surprised to see a small turnout in Wayne county on election day...

There are other reasons to vote besides the top job. From the county's website:

Conservation and Legacy Fund

Michigan Civil Rights Initiative

Hunting Season for Mourning Doves

Eminent Domain For Certain Private Purposes

Establish Mandatory School Funding Levels

#2 and 3 alone ought to pack 'em in. I'd walk to the polls with a broken leg for #4.

edit: research

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michaelskis Hamlet

michaelskis

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I don’t think that the polls matter all that much. The only people who have voted in those polls are those who know whom they will vote for. The ones that matter are the ones who don’t know yet. I think that it will be a close race right down to the end. I just hope that as many people as possible become truly educated on both candidates before deciding who to vote for.

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francishsu Hamlet

francishsu

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Speaking of education, Devos apprantly would like intelligent design to be part of the science curriculum in our school districts:

DeVos: Intelligent design should be discussed in Michigan's science classes

I suspected that he might push for this, but now that he's confirmed it, this now trumps Amway's business practices as my #1 reason to not want him to get elected.

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torgo Town

torgo

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So let me understand, he wants local districts to have the opportunity to choose to offer both evolution and intelligent design. Not just teaching intelligent design as the only option.

If that's the case, I don't have a problem with it.

And for the record, I think that evolution, for all intensive purpose, is a scientific fact.

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civitas Burg

civitas

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If that's the case, I don't have a problem with it.

And for the record, I think that evolution, for all intensive purpose, is a scientific fact.

Intelligent design and evolution aren't necessarily independent concepts.

Evolution recognizes that living things change over time to adapt to circumstances.

Intelligent design acknowledges that life is wonderfully complex and well organized and must be the result of a creative designer.

Much of theology is based on the concept of spiritual "evolution." It is an easy step, therefore, to imagine that physical evolution might be just as much an integral part of intelligent design.

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francishsu Hamlet

francishsu

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My biggest gripe is not with the concept of intelligent design itself, but that proponents want it taught in biology. Intelligent design is something I would not oppose taught in an ELECTIVE philosophy or comparitave religion class. But in a standard science class? Get real. And make no mistake, the biggest player in the ID arena is the Thomas More Law Center, which is a Christian conservative organization.

By the way, the trap with the concept of intelligent design is that it can never be scientifically disproven, and can actually complement just about any theory regarding our origin, including evolution. In fact, I suspect that if ID started to be taken truly seriously that it would hurt mainstream religion more than help it. And with advances in genetic engineering combined with future attempts at human cloning, we may find that we can be "intelligent designers" (e.g. stupid designers) ourselves. The natural conclusion is that if we can create new, intelligent species ourselves, why couldn't we have been created in the same way?

Now the question becomes.. do you really want ID being taught in biology class in public schools, including at the K-6 level?

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WOT Whistle-Stop

WOT

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Is anyone (supporters for both candidates) getting absolutely sick and tired of the whole "China" thread? Man - can we just move on to advance our state into the next economy and how we are going to set ourselves apart from others in attracting and retaining ridiculously intelligent people with unimaginable ideas?

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Rizzo City

Rizzo

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Just for the record:

Many educators and policymakers, including Gov. Jennifer Granholm, say they wouldn’t object to discussing intelligent design — just not in science classes.

..from the same article. :whistling:

Just not in science classes, that's the huge point. You can't take intelligent design and disprove or prove with the test of science.

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torgo Town

torgo

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Is anyone (supporters for both candidates) getting absolutely sick and tired of the whole "China" thread? Man - can we just move on to advance our state into the next economy and how we are going to set ourselves apart from others in attracting and retaining ridiculously intelligent people with unimaginable ideas?

Amen to that.

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francishsu Hamlet

francishsu

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I don't expect a fringe theory to be taught as possible fact to children, with my taxpayer dollars, even if it ends up being the mainstream theory a hundred years from now. The primary arguement of ID proponents is to point out all the holes in evolution. But at the stage we are now, there's no scientific method available today that can provide any tangible evidence that our DNA was effectively engineered. That's why I feel that ID has no place in a science class today. In the future, at the point where genetic engineering and cloning has advanced to the point where we show that we can artificially create a new, advanced life form, then we can talk about including ID in a high school or K-6 curiculum.

At the point that ID might be accepted as the "cutting edge" scientific theory of our creation (like when the quantum theory of physics emerged), and when you can create experiments that back up your theory, then you start introducing the idea in classes first at the highest levels of education.

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francishsu Hamlet

francishsu

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If you're talking about new super highways, I could see that.

What's does big D think about Historic Preservation or Context Sensitve Design?

Very much on the mark. Both Granholm and Devos want to spend money on roads, but Devos' focus is on new roads and adding lanes, while Granholm's is on repairing existing roads.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...ITICS/607020329

DeVos, however, said he wants to see more money spent on new roads and lane additions so businesses don't have to deal with congestion and the resulting delays. He said congestion is grinding Michigan's economy to a halt, wasting fuel and workers' time.

I am a fan of wide roads and highways so I don't necessarily see Devos' position as being in the wrong in this case.

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civitas Burg

civitas

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If you're talking about new super highways, I could see that.

What's does big D think about Historic Preservation or Context Sensitve Design?

Big D has invested a lot of money in Heartside and has a history of being very high-design in every building he has been involved with (as has the rest of his family and Betsy and her family in Holland).

Does small g have any personal experience in community building or development outside of state subsidies?

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