Who do we like for Governor?

[snoogit]

All this back and forth on China is exactly why I think Granholm is out of ideas, and why I've settled on Devos. I was undecided until this week. It's been months and months since I've heard anything positive about Granholm, and that disconnect will start to settle in with voters, IMO.

Heh thats the reason I'm not planning on voting for Devos so far I haven't seen him give any ideas, he just seems to say "We need jobs vote fore me". I know he's gone on record saying he won't get into specifics until after he gets elected, but the big question I asked myself is "Why do you need to wait until then? Or is it really that there is nothing there?"

[michaelskis]

Heh thats the reason I'm not planning on voting for Devos so far I haven't seen him give any ideas, he just seems to say "We need jobs vote fore me". I know he's gone on record saying he won't get into specifics until after he gets elected, but the big question I asked myself is "Why do you need to wait until then? Or is it really that there is nothing there?"

I am not sure about the “not giving specifics until he is elected thing” given that he has all the information needed on his website.

Here are the specifics that you were wondering about.

Note, it is a 68 page document, so it might take some time to load.

[snoogit]

He needs to say it to the people then, not bury it in a 68 page document no one will have or take the time read. Even in that document I still haven't read how he plans on keeping the budget balanced after eliminating the SBT.

Taxes, and wages aren't sending jobs overseas its healthcare. The companies have been saying this now for at least a decade, and whats been the dominant response? "

Lets lower taxes, or Lets give wage concessions" Why is it that Ford, and GM, and Chrysler are making their cars in Canada? its certainly not because the workers get paid less... It has everything to do with healthcare.

If you take healthcare out of the hands of the companies, they will definately move back into business here in MI, and the US as a whole. I haven't seen Devos give any concrete plans on how he plans to fix healthcare except say: "Lower costs" but theres nothing more then that! How will he lower costs? waving a magic wand?

[GRDadof3]

Developers fuel governor race

I wonder if developers feel the State will be more "developer-friendly" with Devos?

[snoogit]

Developers fuel governor race

I wonder if developers feel the State will be more "developer-friendly" with Devos?

From the article:

The thinking is that major developers must do business with whoever wins the governor post and, therefore, are likely to contribute to both sides as a hedge for their businesses.

Thats the biggest statement there. It's a common practice for most companies to donate to both sides.

[michaelskis]

Let me break this up a bit...

He needs to say it to the people then, not bury it in a 68 page document no one will have or take the time read. Even in that document I still haven't read how he plans on keeping the budget balanced after eliminating the SBT.

Page 44

He will balance the budget by reducing the cost and size of Government. Lets face it, the government at all levels spends way too much on things that don't make it operate any better. One of the major things that he is proposing is empowering those in key positions to make the necessary on the spot decisions instead of going through a complicated red taped hierarchal review process.

Taxes, and wages aren't sending jobs overseas its healthcare. The companies have been saying this now for at least a decade, and whats been the dominant response? "

Lets lower taxes, or Lets give wage concessions" Why is it that Ford, and GM, and Chrysler are making their cars in Canada? its certainly not because the workers get paid less... It has everything to do with healthcare.

Page 24

Part of the Single Business Tax also taxes healthcare costs paid by businesses. Without the Single Business Tax, the healthcare tax included in it will also go away. Additionally he proposes increasing funding for technology that will provide healthcare to a wider area of people (such as rural areas) therefore reducing the cost of healthcare. He also encourages and promotes consumer driven health insurance options such as HSA

[civitas]

From the article: Thats the biggest statement there. It's a common practice for most companies to donate to both sides.

The article says that was the expectation but it is not happening, "Prominent Oakland County developers continue to throw their financial support behind Dick DeVos's run for governor, defying expectations that they would hedge their bets and begin channeling contributions to the Granholm campaign."

I'm not a "prominent" developer, but I only give to the candidates that I vote for. I think that is generally true in West Michigan and apparently also true in Oakland County.

[Prankster]

One of the major things that he is proposing is empowering those in key positions to make the necessary on the spot decisions instead of going through a complicated red taped hierarchal review process.

Do you have any specific examples of this? I'm not trying to single you out on this, but I always hear this retoric stated by people on both ends of the political spectrum. Yet when asked, people generally are not able to point to any examples. Thanks.

[WOT]

From the article:

Thats the biggest statement there. It's a common practice for most companies to donate to both sides.

In your opinion.

For me it is:

Unlike Granholm's campaign, none of the donations to the campaign of DeVos, the former Alticor Inc. president, has come from political action committees.

To me, that would signal a certain freedom to embolden fresh ideas and solutions to some very old problems without having to get clearance from the teachers union or Mr. Gettlefinger.

[snoogit]

Page 44

He will balance the budget by reducing the cost and size of Government. Lets face it, the government at all levels spends way too much on things that don't make it operate any better. One of the major things that he is proposing is empowering those in key positions to make the necessary on the spot decisions instead of going through a complicated red taped hierarchal review process.

Thats fine and dandy, but he still proposes new spending, which has to come from somewhere. Something hes still not talked about, where will all this new funding come from? It really is a pie in the sky idea that you can reduce money flow, and increase spending, and still somehow end up in the black.

By getting rid of review processes you introduce the potential for government corruption, which as we have seen is causing some real headaches for a certain political party nationwide.

Page 24

Part of the Single Business Tax also taxes healthcare costs paid by businesses. Without the Single Business Tax, the healthcare tax included in it will also go away.

You're still saddling the companies with rising healthcare costs, something that is still going to turn companies away from creating new jobs here. You can't expect a company to stay if they can go somewhere else, and eliminate an entire category on their balance sheets like they can by moving to Canada, or China.

Additionally he proposes increasing funding for technology that will provide healthcare to a wider area of people (such as rural areas) therefore reducing the cost of healthcare.

Another example of spending without proposing where he will get this new revenue.

He also encourages and promotes consumer driven health insurance options such as HSA’s. Finally with more options and better quality care, competition will help keep prices down and people in the state. This has already happened in West Michigan with an increased number of nursing programs, hospital expansions, and improved education possibilities for doctors.

We have HSAs currently at the national level

They aren't showing signs of working

At some point an equilibrium forms between supply and demand, if you have technology that will crease the supply, it will reduce the price to a point of equilibrium which will also leave a surplus of supply at the same cost, offering opportunity for research to further reduce costs. Too much government intervention prevents this equilibrium from forming causing prices to increase.

What about all this technology we have now? why isn't it reducing the costs of healthcare? If anything all technology has done is add just another cost of doing business in hospitals. Healthcare costs cant be won by just throwing money and technology at it. While technology is great, and helping companies cure potent diseases is a noble cause, there are many barriers to producing cheaper and better healthcare.

The patent system severly limits production of "generic" drugs, which keeps cheaper medications off the market for much longer periods then it used to.

Introducing new technology at a rapid pace does not reduce costs. If anything stable technology eliminates the need to replace machines, and other equipment at such a faster pace. e.g: if I can keep a machine and it does its job for 7 years, its going to cost me less overall then if I have a similar machine I have to replace every 3 years.

So much of this technology thats introduced is miniscule increments of advancement, expecially in the imaging sector of healthcare. the real major breakthrough lately was the 3D Ultrasound, but beyond that MRI, and CT-scan technology has been mostly incrementally updated, with little differentiation over the past 5 years but still new machines are purchased sometimes as rapidly as every 5 years.

I don't think the answer is throwing the latest and greatest out there. Maybe i'm a troglodyte when it comes to healthcare, but sometimes all someone needs is chicken soup, and some bedrest instead of a dose of claritin, and a teaspoon of codeine.

[civitas]

Wow, EPIC-MRA poll giving Granholm 50%. That's an important milestone for the incumbent.

EPIC-MRA polled 57% women this time. Would Granholm have an advantage as a woman with women voters? If so, the poll seems seriously flawed.

[francishsu]

EPIC-MRA polled 57% women this time. Would Granholm have an advantage as a woman with women voters? If so, the poll seems seriously flawed.

No single poll is going to reflect the demographic. African-Americans were underpresented in that poll as well, and who knows about the income ranges, religious affiliation and other criteria. So I would say that the poll is as flawed as any other is likely to be. I do agree that women are more likely to vote for Granholm, and it also happens that more women are going to vote in Michigan than men. It will take several more polls before we see if there's any trend, but personally I do feel that a poll with 50% voting for a particular candidate is a positive indicator for them.

Here's a place that collects all public poll results for this race:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/20...or_race-13.html

[civitas]

All this back and forth on China is exactly why I think Granholm is out of ideas, and why I've settled on Devos. I was undecided until this week. It's been months and months since I've heard anything positive about Granholm, and that disconnect will start to settle in with voters, IMO.

The Detroit News really nailed the Gov in an editorial on that issue. Link

" W e've come to expect politicians campaigning for office to stretch the truth, fudge the facts and even utter outright lies to win an election.

But Gov. Jennifer Granholm is over the top in her distortions about challenger Dick DeVos' record as a businessman.

The lying alone wouldn't be so upsetting -- again, we expect that from a politician -- if not for the potential this particular lie has to damage Michigan."

[michaelskis]

Stedman Graham (best selling author, former Basketball Player, Businessman, and Oprah

[francishsu]

The Detroit News really nailed the Gov in an editorial on that issue.

[...]

Wow, a conservative newspaper with an editorial bashing Granholm. What a surprise!

[Veloise]

R.I.P. Ann Richards

Anyone who celebrates her 60th birthday by obtaining her motorcycle drivers license is my kinda gal.

(I found some great quotes on Wikipedia. Re Texas death penalty: "I would support the law in the state of Texas. Asked "what would you do if the legislature repealed the death penalty, my old favorite governor replied,

"I would faint."

Also cool: asked what she would have done had she known she'd be a one-term gov, she replied, "I'd have raised more hell.)

[evac311]

Devos is getting my vote because of his position on women's reproductive rights.

[RustTown]

Devos is getting my vote because of his position on women's reproductive rights.

lol!

Someone already posted the stats, earlier, but here is the news synposis on the EPIC/MRA poll:

1. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...ICS01/609150382

Here is the detailed report by EPIC/MRA

2. http://www.epicmra.com/Statewide_Sept7_2006.Freq.pdf

BTW, there seems to be this assumption that women are for Granholm. From everything I've seen in read, the vote of women is about easily split between the two candidates, so an oversampling of women shouldn't make that much of a difference. Also, here are some facts concerning the participants polled in the latest poll:

- 90% identified themselves as white

- only 18% of the respondants were union members

- 49% were 56 and over (these also happen to always be the most likely voters in ANY election)

- most importantly 42% said they were Democrats, 41% said they were Republicans.

[francishsu]

Latest SurveyUSA poll has them tied at 47-47. They provide crosstab information, providing some good insight into where the support for each candidate comes from.

SurveyUSA Poll Details

Things that interest me personally:

Comparing the governor and senate crosstabs - Granholm failing miserably with younger voters compared to Stabenow

Devos support in GR city is pretty strong

Looking at the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative - amazingly, the poll indicates that both Republican/Democrat, Conservative/Liberal ideologies support it, while Independent/Moderates do not. I don't know if I've ever seen something with that kind of split.

[Rizzo]

Latest SurveyUSA poll has them tied at 47-47. They provide crosstab information, providing some good insight into where the support for each candidate comes from.

SurveyUSA Poll Details

Things that interest me personally:

Comparing the governor and senate crosstabs - Granholm failing miserably with younger voters compared to Stabenow

Devos support in GR city is pretty strong

Looking at the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative - amazingly, the poll indicates that both Republican/Democrat, Conservative/Liberal ideologies support it, while Independent/Moderates do not. I don't know if I've ever seen something with that kind of split.

48% to 46% favor Devos, I don't know if I would call that strong support. That's barely tipping scales.

Unrelated to the above, but it's funny Devos has said he dosen't support the the MCRI...

[RustTown]

He doesn't support it probably not because he doesn't support it (I can only assume, but I'd put money that he more than agrees with it), but because he knows that he would have absoluetely no chance in winning governorship if he did publicly support it.

BTW, SurveyUSA can't be better than EPIC/MRA, can they? How do they collect there data? EPIC/MRA always seems to get things right as you can in polling, and I trust them more because they are instate.

[civitas]

48% to 46% favor Devos, I don't know if I would call that strong support. That's barely tipping scales.

Unrelated to the above, but it's funny Devos has said he dosen't support the the MCRI...

48% isn't bad for a guy who was completely unheard of on the east side of the state a month or so ago.

[francishsu]

48% to 46% favor Devos, I don't know if I would call that strong support. That's barely tipping scales.

Unrelated to the above, but it's funny Devos has said he dosen't support the the MCRI...

You're right.. I guess I assumed with GR being an city that Democrats would fare better in general. But I guess one could compare Posthumus to Devos, and from the little research I have done it looks like Posthumus had more support in GR than Devos currently. So maybe Devos' connection to Amway is hurting him in GR after all.

[Rizzo]

48% isn't bad for a guy who was completely unheard of on the east side of the state a month or so ago.

Thoes numbers are of The Grand Rapids area, not the entire state.

You're right.. I guess I assumed with GR being an city that Democrats would fare better in general. But I guess one could compare Posthumus to Devos, and from the little research I have done it looks like Posthumus had more support in GR than Devos currently. So maybe Devos' connection to Amway is hurting him in GR after all.

But the poll isn't in just limited to the City of Grand Rapids, the poll numbers reflect the entire "Grand Rapids area."

[GRDadof3]

I predicted that Devos might get more votes from the East side of the State (wealthier Oakland, Macomb, Livingston counties), then he would from the Grand Rapids area, I think mainly because of this area's love/hate relationship with Amway.