Soleil Center I & II at Crabtree

[RiverwoodCLT]

From all I have read here is if he can't sell all the condos sold he may build a 25 to 30 story hotel with out condos or with less condos.

I seen this type of problem in Charlotte, it takes a long time to get some projects started. We had written off the Park Condos, but now it is being built. Large developers like Novare out of Atlanta, do not take long to get a project out of the ground. It depends on the size of the developer. This looks like this is the first big project like the Soleil Center for Dicky Walia and Sanjay Mundra.

Looking at whats going on in Raleigh, I think this baby would be out of the ground if it was put in downtown Raleigh. With the new convention center coming on line, the hotel would be a better fit, than Crabtree Mall. I know I rather be downtown Raleigh in a condo than Crabtree Mall in an area subject to flooding.

[DPK]

A part of me hopes that this thing fails to be developed in its current location and ends up downtown. I've been against it there from the beginning.

[waynehead]

I'm not against this project per se, but I wouldn't mourn its passing, either. I think that sort of ambivalence is maybe part of the reason it hasn't gotten off the ground yet...

[RDUairport]

Ground work has been going on for about three weeks. They seem to be drilling massive holes for the foundation. Theyre using the same drills that are used when drilling for legs to a bridge, so quite big. Its not like nothing is happening here anymore. I for one am happy to at least see some activity happening.

[RALBOI]

Ground work has been going on for about three weeks. They seem to be drilling massive holes for the foundation. Theyre using the same drills that are used when drilling for legs to a bridge, so quite big. Its not like nothing is happening here anymore. I for one am happy to at least see some activity happening.

You have my blessing, if you want to post those picture's.

[570]

Shots taken today....

it certainly looks as if something is going on there

[RDUairport]

you beat me to it. ive had so much work I haven't had a chance to post the pictures RALBOI sent me. I'll try to get those up but not much more than whats already shown.

[brokenraven]

Damn. I was secretly (or not so secretly) hoping this wouldn't get built.

Oh well, perhaps it will grow on me. Sometimes things have a tendency to do that.

[serapis]

I hope it gets built.

[RiverwoodCLT]

That is the kind of equipment they used to build the Hearst Building, The Trade Mark and Ritz-Carlton in uptown Charlotte. They drill down to a certain depth and put rebar down in it and fill with concrete.

[dmccall]

...hopes that this thing fails to be developed in its current location and ends up downtown...

THUD THUD THUD (that's the sound of my head banging against the wall). Let's go through this again:

• The condos are in the top half of the building. The view from your sofa, bed, and kitchen in a condo will be of the horizon. The only way you'll see the roof of Crabtree is if you are standing right at the window. Only the hotel guests need to worry about the roof of Crabtree. Funny how this concern is never expressed as the reason that the Embassy Suites, Holiday Inn, and Marriott hotels shouldn't have been built.
  
• Crabtree WILL get a high-rise nice hotel - it desperately needs one
  
• Crabree's condo market is a totally different residential market than downtown's.
  
• "This project" will never be built downtown. Downtown doesn't need this project. If the developers cannot make this project work, they will not be building ANYTHING downtown.
  

[Gard]

THUD THUD THUD (that's the sound of my head banging against the wall). Let's go through this again:

• The condos are in the top half of the building. The view from your sofa, bed, and kitchen in a condo will be of the horizon. The only way you'll see the roof of Crabtree is if you are standing right at the window. Only the hotel guests need to worry about the roof of Crabtree. Funny how this concern is never expressed as the reason that the Embassy Suites, Holiday Inn, and Marriott hotels shouldn't have been built.
  
• Crabtree WILL get a high-rise nice hotel - it desperately needs one
  
• Crabree's condo market is a totally different residential market than downtown's.
  
• "This project" will never be built downtown. Downtown doesn't need this project. If the developers cannot make this project work, they will not be building ANYTHING downtown.
  

Couldn't have put it better. A project either gets built, or it doesn't. Once a developer has their capital invested in a piece of land, there is no turning back on where to build it, its set in stone. From there, the building either goes up, or the project gets cancelled and the land sold. Thats just how economics work.

[JTsaysToYou]

has anyone else seen the TV ads for the soleil center? I saw one yesterday, and it was pretty cool...

[DB78]

• The condos are in the top half of the building. The view from your sofa, bed, and kitchen in a condo will be of the horizon. The only way you'll see the roof of Crabtree is if you are standing right at the window. Only the hotel guests need to worry about the roof of Crabtree.
  

Great point there that probably everyone overlooked (no pun).

People have been hating on this project for quite some time now, mostly because it isn't downtown. Considering how much the Crabtree area will be changing in the next few years with other projects, I think Soleil will be welcomed soon after it is finally built. At the very least, people will be happy to see it a decade from, once Crabtree is more dense.

I do wonder- with Best Buy now at the mall, with HHGreg now here, will the Circuit City (with its enormous parking lot) across the street close down in the next few years, only to be bought for a big scale project?? Just a thought.

[Gard]

I do wonder- with Best Buy now at the mall, with HHGreg now here, will the Circuit City (with its enormous parking lot) across the street close down in the next few years, only to be bought for a big scale project?? Just a thought.

That would largely depend on the financial health of Circuit City over the long run. If they announce store closings and the store isn't doing all that well, the its possible, if its doing good by their standards there, then it won't go anywheres anytime soon. Keep in mind that Circuit City recently built a store on Capital practically in the same lot as Best Buy and there is and HHGregg right across the street now too, but Best Buy being right there didn't deter them from building where they did.

[DB78]

That would largely depend on the financial health of Circuit City over the long run. If they announce store closings and the store isn't doing all that well, the its possible, if its doing good by their standards there, then it won't go anywheres anytime soon. Keep in mind that Circuit City recently built a store on Capital practically in the same lot as Best Buy and there is and HHGregg right across the street now too, but Best Buy being right there didn't deter them from building where they did.

I realize that. That CC still gets a decent amount of business. I was just saying if their financials start too look a little rough, it probably wouldn't take a huge push for them to close the store and sell to a developer looking to get in on the boom that will be going on in Crabtree over the next few years. A developer looking for land there would likely be willing to put up some big bucks, particularly once the 2 projects behind the Mall get going, so if that particular CC goes into the red financially, it would likely be a big profit for CC to sell.

[serapis]

Has anyone heard of any further progress of this project? Things have become mighty quiet lately.

[jlblaes]

Has anyone heard of any further progress of this project? Things have become mighty quiet lately.

I drive by there nearly every work day. The drill and footing work continues. They have even had those bright portable work lights out there running at 600 or 630 in the evening as they finish up for the day. So the site is definateively active.

I sure hope they bury the power lines there on Edwards Mill. It would be sad to have this nice looking building with all of that mess in the foreground. Same deal at North Hills on Six Forks.

JB

[CHGuy]

They are very close to getting their building permit. The project is currently in its third round of reviews by the Raleigh Inspections Dept.

[ncwebguy]

The view from your car, since you won't be walking anywhere, when you come and go will be of a blank, empty side of Crabtree, assuming Crabtree Creek hasn't flooded over. Or traffic from Crabtree, the new Kidds Hill projects, etc. isn't too bad. This isn't a concern for hotel guests, as they only have to endure it for a week or so at most. Seeing that every day isn't exactly a "Manhattan lifestyle."

The area has changed, but the new neighbors are Circuit City, Best Buy, and Old Navy, not Nordstrom, Dillards, etc. The Kidds Hill projects may help *if* the credit bubble hasn't put those projects on indefinate hold.

Crabtree Valley Mall had a nice high-rise hotel, but it was left to rot to the point neighbors would accept anything in its place. If it was not for Westin, we would still be waiting for the ground breaking. The hotel they were "silent partners" in on Capitol now has a "For Sale" sign. The Umstead is closer to the RBC Center, RDU airport, and RTP, and roughly the same distance as Soleil to the NC Museum of Art and downtown Raleigh. The only thing they have going for them is Crabtree -- upscale for the Triangle, but not on a national level, let alone international, level.

The Crabtree area did not have a condo market. There are houses nearby, lower/middle end apartment complexes just north of Glenwood between Creedmoor and North Hills and behind the old Kidds Hill Plaza, and townhouses south of the mall. Only the houses are luxurious, and those are tucked away from the mall.

Downtown doesn't *need* any particular project, but is the right place for projects of this type. It isn't in a flood plain, and has a street grid to move traffic in all directions. "This project" won't be built downtown because the Soleil group couldn't find cheap land with loophole zoning to let them do whatever they want.

[serapis]

The view from your car, since you won't be walking anywhere, when you come and go will be of a blank, empty side of Crabtree, assuming Crabtree Creek hasn't flooded over. Or traffic from Crabtree, the new Kidds Hill projects, etc. isn't too bad. This isn't a concern for hotel guests, as they only have to endure it for a week or so at most. Seeing that every day isn't exactly a "Manhattan lifestyle."

The area has changed, but the new neighbors are Circuit City, Best Buy, and Old Navy, not Nordstrom, Dillards, etc. The Kidds Hill projects may help *if* the credit bubble hasn't put those projects on indefinate hold.

Crabtree Valley Mall had a nice high-rise hotel, but it was left to rot to the point neighbors would accept anything in its place. If it was not for Westin, we would still be waiting for the ground breaking. The hotel they were "silent partners" in on Capitol now has a "For Sale" sign. The Umstead is closer to the RBC Center, RDU airport, and RTP, and roughly the same distance as Soleil to the NC Museum of Art and downtown Raleigh. The only thing they have going for them is Crabtree -- upscale for the Triangle, but not on a national level, let alone international, level.

The Crabtree area did not have a condo market. There are houses nearby, lower/middle end apartment complexes just north of Glenwood between Creedmoor and North Hills and behind the old Kidds Hill Plaza, and townhouses south of the mall. Only the houses are luxurious, and those are tucked away from the mall.

Downtown doesn't *need* any particular project, but is the right place for projects of this type. It isn't in a flood plain, and has a street grid to move traffic in all directions. "This project" won't be built downtown because the Soleil group couldn't find cheap land with loophole zoning to let them do whatever they want.

Blah, Blah, Blah. It's too late for all of that complaining now. Plus that's just your opinion. I hope it gets built, based on being a unique structure for Raleigh period. It could have went DT, but it didn't. There is no sense in making a fuss over spoiled milk this far along in the stage. Downtown will get more than it's fair share of high rises in the near and far future.

[Jones_]

^^Talking about the likely success of this project and its impact are still quite relevant. Plenty of projects go bankrupt after they break ground so this hardly qualifies as milk well spilled, at least yet. The fact that foundations have proceeded despite so many people scratching their heads over this project makes me wonder still how clear the sailing really is. Do I want to know Raleigh has financial juevos and international clout to support a project like this? Sure. But anybody with a clue would never have dropped a dime in the old Holiday Inn property on Capital Blvd as that area steadily drops off investors radars, so that tidbit erodes confidence in the dirt being turned down in the Crabtree floodplain.

[DPK]

^^Talking about the likely success of this project and its impact are still quite relevant. Plenty of projects go bankrupt after they break ground so this hardly qualifies as milk well spilled, at least yet.

I concur, and sometimes well after they break ground construction can stop. Granted an extreme case, but:

Supposedly this was going to be the HQ for a company in Sao Paulo, Brazil. Then the company privatized and halted construction completely.

Until I see Soleil Center open for business, I will continue to question it. Something has never sat well with me over this project. I don't know why as I'm usualy ok with things of this nature.

[RALNATIVE]

I concur, and sometimes well after they break ground construction can stop. Granted an extreme case, but:

Supposedly this was going to be the HQ for a company in Sao Paulo, Brazil. Then the company privatized and halted construction completely.

Until I see Soleil Center open for business, I will continue to question it. Something has never sat well with me over this project. I don't know why as I'm usualy ok with things of this nature.

DPK---

I think that we all know that you are skeptical about this project at this point, but the bottomline is that developers don't do as much advertising and promotion as this group has done if they are not serious and have the financial wherewithal to deliver the product.

You don't start a highly visible project like this and suddenly stop midstream. If the bldg was planned for mere office space, as in your photo above, I would say that your scenario is a possibility; however, there are too many dependencies at this point for the Soleil Center to not be delivered as promised. That's how business in the "U.S.A" operates.

[DPK]

DPK---

I think that we all know that you are skeptical about this project at this point, but the bottomline is that developers don't do as much advertising and promotion as this group has done if they are not serious and have the financial wherewithal to deliver the product.

You don't start a highly visible project like this and suddenly stop midstream. If the bldg was planned for mere office space, as in your photo above, I would say that your scenario is a possibility; however, there are too many dependencies at this point for the Soleil Center to not be delivered as promised. That's how business in the "U.S.A" operates.

I know you know I'm skeptical about this project, lol. I've made that point well known in this thread and if it hasn't been observed by now I'd be wondering what was wrong with you. I was just extending onto what Jones said.

However I'm going to have to disagree with you on the topic of "You don't start a highly visible project like this and suddenly stop midstream" because you can't predict everything when you do a project of this size. For all anyone knows, this project could get going and a freak flood could come through next year and wipe out the foundation of Soleil causing the Group to rethink the idea and sit on things for a while (not a great example, but you get my drift). That and advertising means nothing if interest isn't there (not saying it isn't!). If the amount of units necessary to help finance construction aren't sold than the project could be rescaled/halted/etc. These are just examples.

The picture I cited was an extreme example and I agree that something on that scale of a goof probably wouldn't happen in the US.

If Soleil gets built, great, I'd love to see it on the skyline. Just build it once all the permits come through and don't dawdle around wasting everyone's time/money.