Soleil Center I & II at Crabtree

[Subway Scoundrel]

I'll believe it when I see the first steel beam erected into place.

I say the same thing about the Layfette ??

[DickyWalia]

TO ALL OUR SUPPORTERS HERE IS AN ADVANCE COPY OF THE PRESS RELEASE. IF ANY ONE OF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TOUR OUR SALES CENTER PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE TO CALL MY ASSISTANT PATTI TYMA AT 710 3090 TO SCHEDULE A TOUR OF THIS ICONIC PROJECT. PLEASE ID YOURSELF AS A SUPPORTER FROM URBAN PLANET. THANKS ONCE AGAIN.

For Immediate Release

Media Contact:

Patti Tyma

Soleil Group, Inc

Phone: (919) 719 3090

Email: [email protected]

Roxanne Rabasco

Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc.

Phone: (914) 640-3687

Email: [email protected]

Westin Makes its Debut in Raleigh, North Carolina,

Breaking Ground on an Architecturally Inspiring Hotel & Residences

Designed to Refresh Mind, Body and Spirit, The Westin Raleigh Hotel & Residences at Soleil Center is on Track to Become the Area

[DPK]

That's some fancy press release, but my previous comment still stands.

[RALBOI]

Thank you Mr. Walia for this information and coming up here at my request, can anybody else up hear on UP get a developer too come and discuss a project am waiting. JUST JOKING FELLOWS!!!

[RALNATIVE]

That's some fancy press release, but my previous comment still stands.

Does anyone other than yourself really care about your previous comment? Raleigh is getting a new iconic 40+ tower.

[dmccall]

Thanks, Mr. Walia for the press release. Best of luck to you in the ensuing months and continue to keep your head up. Don't let the ol' "we're just Raleigh we can't do THAT" thing has reared its ugly head a bit in the last year and people like you can pull us through it!

[DPK]

Does anyone other than yourself really care about your previous comment? Raleigh is getting a new iconic 40+ tower.

They don't have to as it's my own personal opinion. These are "public" forums and I can express my opinions within reason. Before you judge me so quickly, I am behind the Soleil Center and the unique vista it is going to create in that area of Raleigh. My comment is more of a resulting frustration that I want to see the Soleil Center develop into more than just a hole in the ground.

[RALNATIVE]

They don't have to as it's my own personal opinion. These are "public" forums and I can express my opinions within reason. Before you judge me so quickly, I am behind the Soleil Center and the unique vista it is going to create in that area of Raleigh. My comment is more of a resulting frustration that I want to see the Soleil Center develop into more than just a hole in the ground.

This article should provide you with more proof that this is really happening:

TBJ Article

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

This article should provide you with more proof that this is really happening:

TBJ Article

I don't see an actual contruction date anywhere! Either here on UP or on the TBJ article, when will we actually get to see a crane or other constuction equipment? I sure am ready!

[capitalapts]

Why people are getting all excited about this thing is beyond me. I think the renderings are pretty, granted, but....let's see how it looks after it gets built.

Talk about a ridiculously out of place structure, let alone the statement it makes about the city council and planning process that such a thing would be allowed where it's going. It goes to show that if you're a developer in this town and you have cash, you can basically do whatever you want. The city council sure ain't stoppin' you!

[DPK]

Why people are getting all excited about this thing is beyond me. I think the renderings are pretty, granted, but....let's see how it looks after it gets built.

Talk about a ridiculously out of place structure, let alone the statement it makes about the city council and planning process that such a thing would be allowed where it's going. It goes to show that if you're a developer in this town and you have cash, you can basically do whatever you want. The city council sure ain't stoppin' you!

I really wish this thing was built downtown where it belongs, but what can you do. It still could fail at this point and not get built, stranger things have happened. However I have come to just "accept" that it is going to be beside the mall and that it will be a new tower in town. The more the merrier mentality I guess.

[ncsugrad204]

In arrives the haters Go Soleil

[Spatula]

Every few months Walia posts a newsletter, and then ensues a 10-page argument about the Soleil Center. (Here it comes, just wait!)

It's interesting because usually this forum agrees on everything; it's actually kinda freaky. Probably because we don't often cross into the territory of other political topics. Occasionally we do, and whenever it happens you see some tremors.

I think that this particular project sits on the biggest fault line, the divide between 'laissez faire' and 'interventionist' planning. We've quietly agreed to be urbanists (well, most of us), but for different reasons, through different means.

Raleigh seems to have this problem on a larger scale. It's economically divided. You see lots of people criticizing the convention center, as an expensive government funded project. You also see lots of people criticizing the Soleil Center, as an expensive project at odds with downtown revitalization. Pepsi, meet Coke.

[cthayes75]

Here's the WRAL article on it today.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1599462/

One thing I have to question...

"Once complete, the Soleil Center is expected to bring 150 jobs to the area and an annual estimated tax revenue of about $480 million."

$480 million per year in tax revenue? I guess all our growth problems are solved! Two years of taxes from the tower take care of all our school constructoin needs.

[architect77]

Why people are getting all excited about this thing is beyond me. I think the renderings are pretty, granted, but....let's see how it looks after it gets built.

Talk about a ridiculously out of place structure, let alone the statement it makes about the city council and planning process that such a thing would be allowed where it's going. It goes to show that if you're a developer in this town and you have cash, you can basically do whatever you want. The city council sure ain't stoppin' you!

"ridulously out of place"... well, so are egypt's great pyramids and ALL of metro atlanta... but hey, it's a beautiful tower that's going to lift raleigh out of "tiny city league"

Atlanta's midtown and buckhead:

[Captain Awesome]

well, so are egypt's great pyramids and ALL of metro atlanta... but hey, it's a beautiful tower that's going to lift raleigh out of "tiny city league"

Kinda like this one in Durham? Atlanta isn't really something to aspire to when engaged in urban planning.

We are building a highrise at the mall. Whoopie. That's what our downtown for - to consolidate high density development.

Buckhead was a solution to reign in white flight from Atlanta's city center. The Soleil Center is a solution in search of a problem.

[Spatula]

Atlanta's midtown is really part of Atlanta's main business corridor, and could be collectively referred to as 'downtown', along with the central business district it's right next to. All of the stuff in the picture is inside their beltline, where pretty much everything is fair game as far as density is concerned. Most of that stuff is just vertical sprawl anyway. You take the elevator down from your condo, get in your car, and drive to work still.

Luckily, we like to think we're not going to turn out to be the planning disaster that Atlanta is.

[dmccall]

It goes to show that if you're a developer in this town and you have cash, you can basically do whatever you want.

No it doesn't. Ask Neil Coker and John Kane. The Lassiter is the 3rd iteration of that project. His proposal for high-rises where the tire store was got shot down.

[ChiefJoJo]

I think that this particular project sits on the biggest fault line, the divide between 'laissez faire' and 'interventionist' planning. We've quietly agreed to be urbanists (well, most of us), but for different reasons, through different means.

Raleigh seems to have this problem on a larger scale. It's economically divided. You see lots of people criticizing the convention center, as an expensive government funded project. You also see lots of people criticizing the Soleil Center, as an expensive project at odds with downtown revitalization. Pepsi, meet Coke.

I think you have some that want more buildings all over the place (taller, the better) and you have some that favor the street-level experience over height, and then we get into the idea of placement and location (sprawl vs urban development in the core of DT). I think this project hits at the core of all of these issues. Unquestionably, in terms of optimal placement and street-level experience, the building is fundamentally flawed... being a 42-story tower in a flood plain next to a disconnected, busy, suburban intersection puts that story to bed.

I think the biggest problem I have with it is not the flood plain (it was already built on years ago), not the hotel (already had a Sheraton on that site previously), nor the suburban form (almost a given for that site)... Soleil Center is a symbol of how much control developers have in Raleigh, and in general, I think too much power in one sector certainly doesn't serve the citizens.

No it doesn't. Ask Neil Coker and John Kane. The Lassiter is the 3rd iteration of that project. His proposal for high-rises where the tire store was got shot down.

I hardly call two projects in 7 years a trend, and frankly "Coker Towers" was completely out of scale and inappropriate for that site. Most cities would not even have zoning that allowed a Soleil Center to be built where it is, but here we are.

[Jones_]

We are building a highrise at the mall. Whoopie. That's what our downtown for - to consolidate high density development.

Jojo and Spatula sum up the complexity of arguments but Cap'n....I think you summarized my feelings....big freakin' whoopie.......my big whoopie is tied to:

- This project does not elevate Raleigh into any sort of big league...sorry Archiitect77, but this handful of ultra rich does not define my city or influence my daily experience in any way and never will.

- it may look out of place but its relative low impact of use...handful of condos and a hotel about the size of the one razed.....really does not puts its use so out of place....and well everything about Crabtree Valley aleady looks so out of place I am happy to let those who choose the folly of such a dynamic living experience have their fun

So yeah, big whoop....Capital City Grocery is more important to the future health of this city than Soleil Center is......

[plus2]

Maybe I am being an apologist for tall buildings (which I love) but the only hope for urbanity (re: street level experience) in Crabtree Valley, is for more density. There needs to be more residents, hotel guests, and office workers in that area, instead of just car driving mall shoppers. I agree Soleil isn't great at the street level. But if someone could connect the mall, Soleil I & II, and Kidd's Hill so that people can walk back and forth between them, whether technically at street level or not, then we will have created the type of urbanity we need at that location.

Obviously a rail connection in the future would further serve that purpose. But again, that area needs more than just shoppers to be urban.

[Jones_]

"Once complete, the Soleil Center is expected to bring 150 jobs to the area and an annual estimated tax revenue of about $480 million."

$480 million per year in tax revenue? I guess all our growth problems are solved! Two years of taxes from the tower take care of all our school constructoin needs.

No way that is just property tax......that would mean 480,000,000 is 1% of the assessed value or what 48 Billion dollars....sure.....the residential floors will be worth at most 10 million per floor based on the announced prices....even if the other floors were twice thats only between 600 and 700 million in assessed value...got 47 billion to go...the cpa's have been at work on cumulative economic impact....not sure what business a Westin does but I doubt business from the Westin pushes taxes collected to twice that....what a load.... its so far off from reality it sounds made up....

[dmccall]

The Soleil Center is a solution in search of a problem.

Would you rather that this building be built at 540 and Capital Blvd? There is, indeed, a problem. Some people want to live in a highrise, but don't want to deal with the problems of downtown (no retail, bums, no sports, no movie theater, etc). Some people want to live in a building with many services (gym, high end food delivery without having to go get in a car). Neither experience can be had outside of downtown Raleigh.

There are very few cities in America that have had the opportunity to pass/deny a building like this, so I don't think it's fairto say that other cities would have denied this project given so little data. The funny thing about this building is that while it is tall, it will be skinny. The whole thing could have been put into a fat, 12-story building across the creek and nobody would be saying anything about it. Too, if the building were purely a hotel, I wonder if anyone would be saying anything. Many of the arguments smack of jealousy and class warfare.

[JeffC]

Some people want to live in a highrise, but don't want to deal with the problems of downtown (no retail, bums, no sports, no movie theater, etc). Some people want to live in a building with many services (gym, high end food delivery without having to go get in a car). Neither experience can be had outside of downtown Raleigh.

Gee, I was unaware Soleil was going to have a skating rink ... Crabtree Valley has no more "sports" than downtown does...if you are referring to spectator sports, people living in both places have to get in a car and drive to the RBC Center, SAS Soccer stadium, etc.

[ChiefJoJo]

Would you rather that this building be built at 540 and Capital Blvd? There is, indeed, a problem. Some people want to live in a highrise, but don't want to deal with the problems of downtown (no retail, bums, no sports, no movie theater, etc). Some people want to live in a building with many services (gym, high end food delivery without having to go get in a car). Neither experience can be had outside of downtown Raleigh.

There are very few cities in America that have had the opportunity to pass/deny a building like this, so I don't think it's fairto say that other cities would have denied this project given so little data. The funny thing about this building is that while it is tall, it will be skinny. The whole thing could have been put into a fat, 12-story building across the creek and nobody would be saying anything about it. Too, if the building were purely a hotel, I wonder if anyone would be saying anything. Many of the arguments smack of jealousy and class warfare.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with a lot of this project. People who are bashing it due to floodplain issues just aren't paying attention, there was a fairly large hotel on that very site no less than 3-4 years ago. There is no going back on that. same for traffic impact--it's negligible. Also, the site is next to a creek and doesn't have any road frontage, so that along with the flooding issue, eliminates any ground floor activity to speak of. I even love the design of the building... very sleek, and lots of green elements.

Yeah, if they incorporated the condos in a 15 to 18-story building, I think not many would argue with it, but as it stands, it's just way out of proportion with everything around there, and I don't think we as a city should be allowing that scale of building anywhere outside of downtown. Frankly, the council even asked some of the right questions regarding height and scale, but they dropped the ball IMO--all except Crowder, who cast the only "no' vote.

Honestly, rather than question whether other cities have had the opportunity for a building like this, first let's compile a list of how many cities would even allow a 480' building like this in the burbs? The list is probably small... Atlanta, Houston (they have no zoning), a few others (not Charlotte BTW), but these probably are not cities we want to emulate in terms of planning/zoning. Again, this project is and will continue to be a symbol of the crappy planning and developer strangle-hold that grips this town.

Prediction: As this building rises up over Crabtree, you will hear cries about height limits coming from citizen groups and others in the community, and you will likely see some sort of effort, perhaps via the new comp plan, to place height limits in our code so this never happens again.