Va. Beach Town Center project 2

[hoobo]

Looks like they're eyeing Pembroke malls coveted parking lot too.

You mean Sears' parking lot. They own everything west of their building's connection to Pembroke Mall except the Kramer Tire property.

Edited December 5, 2006 by hoobo

[hoobo]

It would be nice but where would the funding come from? I would love to see this come to life but the city can't fund this entirely with city funds and with the way the state is going it won't ever happen.

Exactly. It's spin from Kimley-Horn. It's just a way to make the best option from a long-term transportation standpoint, Option 1, look monetarily reasonable. And it also shows City officials that the money funding the study is going to good use, that Kimley-Horn is thinking outside the box by giving the City an oooh-and-ahhh design. Don't get me wrong, I think Option 2 looks great but that's what it's supposed to do. Of course it does have its problems mainly with funneling local traffic coming on Indy onto Broad and Bonney/Euclid.

[urbanlife]

Virginia and transportation haven't really gone hand and hand. But honestly, eliminating the intersection at VB Blvd and Indy is the only real solution that will help that area in the future. Anything less will be a waste of time.

[hoobo]

The real problem lies in Independence being the only N-S corridor through Pembroke, or rather over 264. Witchduck, Rosemont, and S. Plaza Trail are too far away to offer relief and Witchduck suffers from its own traffic problems. Eliminating the intersection between Indy & the Blvd would only move the tie-ups on Indy to other intersections like Jeanne, Broad, Columbus, and Bonney/Euclid. Those intersections will become worse unless the streets are widened or an urban interchange is created at the Blvd for all the vehicles wanting to get onto the Blvd. However, east and West bypasses would allow N-S traffic to route around the traffic on Indy.

Furthermore, with Indy being plagued by its interchange at 264, there has to be a way to speed northbound coming from 264 and southbound traffic going to 264 through Pembroke. That solution is to use the bypasses to divide the interstate-bound traffic load by moving the westbound 264 to north indy exit and the south indy to east 264 entrance to the eastern bypass and the south indy 264 to west 264 entrance to the western bypass. Those connections between indy and 264 would then be closed. At this point, traffic should be substantially reduced on indy and fairly divide by the three N-S routes so that the lights at the intersections with the Blvd could be retimed to favor the Blvd and keep its traffic following.

[urbanlife]

in other words, lots of transportation money to fix this giant mess VB has created for itself better be on its Christmas wishlist. I hope VB has been good this year or it might just get a lump of coal instead.

[hoobo]

I think what I wrote is in English. I'm having a crackhead read it and see if it is.

[vaceltic]

How difficult would it be to construct this (having support beams raised above the existing roadway for the park space and concrete sound walls on the side of independence)? The buildings abutting independence would be supported by the existing ground below.

[metalman]

The rending shows independence being dug below ground as an under pass to VB blvd. The parks would be build at ground level with the VB blvd.

[hoobo]

It's not a matter of difficulty but a matter of cost and patience. Do people realize that one direction of Independence will have to be shut down for at least two years per side to build this ditch (1/2 mile long with extensive utility relocation, dewatering, and structural retrofitting for now overpass roadways)? Four or more years of detours. And it doesn't solve the traffic problems on Independence. All it does it moves the tie-ups at the Blvd and Columbus to Broad or Jeanne to the north and Bonney/Euclid to the south. The traffic nightmare that is the Independence/Bonney/264 intersection/interchange is not even addressed. Furthermore, Independence remains the only route through Pembroke that crosses 264. This grade-separation parkland proposal is just a smoke-and-mirrors option. I strongly believe that east/west bypasses over 264 and reworking of the Independence/264 interchange is the only viable long-term solution. If I am the VB traffic engineer who is the project manager on this study, I would kindly ask the Kimley-Horn PM to come up with a realistic Option 2 and not waste public funds on a fanciful dream.

Edited December 13, 2006 by hoobo

[vaceltic]

Just because these are grade separated does not mean Independence has to be dug and rebuilt into the ground. This rendering could also be interpreted to show the pedestrian grade above existing street layouts. Is it possible for concrete columns to support the 'second story' pedestrian elements?

[urbanlife]

hoobo you are addressing a much bigger problem in VB that there is no simple answer. Bush will have an easier time figuring out what to do in Iraq than it will be for VB to figure out traffic problems.

Whatever the city does will have to include time and money. There is no cheap, easy, or fast fix for the city anymore.

[hoobo]

urbanlife, I understand that the problem is challenging and as you said will require time and money. That's why I don't think we should be distracted by something fantastically beautiful that will do little to alleviate the current situation and in the process drain money and frustrate drivers.

[urbanvb]

It would be great to see more high rises go up in TC only I wish they could be built closer together. A poster from the DC forum (thanks NovaBoy) posted these of Reston Town Center. Almost like seeing a downtown being built from scratch.

[vdogg]

Reading between the lines this doesn't bode well for our second office tower starting this year. And what do they mean about "A location hasn't been chosen yet?"

2007 office market

Divaris said low-rise space will sprout first. Armada Hoffler, the Virginia Beach Town Center developer, has plans for a 60,000-square-foot, five-story low-rise building – offering four floors of office and the ground floor for retail – on Constitution Avenue at the Town Center.

“Zim Shipping is looking to expand,” Divaris said. “That might be the instigation for another building.”

Divaris said high-rise space will pop up in 2008 or 2009. “We might be in another cycle by then,” he said, with landlords charging from $30 to $35 per square foot.

Armada Hoffler has plans for another office tower at the Town Center, Divaris said, though a site hasn’t been chosen yet.

I've never heard of these guys but this is the very first time I've heard a name dropped as a possible tenant of a second office tower.

[hoobo]

Reading between the lines this doesn't bode well for our second office tower starting this year. And what do they mean about "A location hasn't been chosen yet?"

2007 office market

I've never heard of these guys but this is the very first time I've heard a name dropped as a possible tenant of a second office tower.

Don't think Zim is looking at TC. They're an Israeli shipping line and have their North American HQ at the Lake Wright Business Park off Military and Northampton. I think they'll be part of that "new" Norfolk business park near the airport which I have a feeling is just Phase 2 of the Lake Wright Business Park.

Edited January 3, 2007 by hoobo

[urbanlife]

wow, Reston has come a long way since my visit to there back in the fall of 01 I believe.

[urbanvb]

Walked by Royal Chocolate tonight in TC and found it to be open now.

[vdogg]

All the new office components being proposed for downtown makes me think that Divaris is still having trouble finding office tenants for TC. Just a thought. The office market is extremely hot right now and for them to still not be able to come through on that 2nd office tower and have to build the 5-story runt next to Columbus speaks volumes.

[urbanvb]

It does seem that landing high end retail here for the most part has proven quite challenging. I noticed on the website for DT VB that folks are asking for more retail at TC though.

[urbanvb]

Received an email this morning. It says several new retailers are opening in the next 6 mos in TC. Kuhlmans, the clothing store shown on the TC website, will not be coming. They are in financial trouble and started closing stores.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Man, it would be awesome for a store like Mexx or Gant or Club Monaco to come (and yes, there is a wide price range across those three stores haha). To get something with name-brand recognition among business-class adults (not that Abercrombie isn't spectacular, I just can't wear most of their stuff to a job interview) would be a nice addition. Gant in particular; maybe an outlet version of the upscale store? Or Kenneth Cole? While getting suits and work clothing at Express and S+K (yawn) is all right, these kinds of stores have amazing suits.... gah! I wish a few would come here. Expensive, but well-worth the cost in my opinion! [/rant]

[metalman]

Town Center Restauraunt Update-

On the Town Center website they've added to there "Coming Soon" list:

McCormick and Schmick's (We already knew that)

Planet Smoothie Cafe(I think we knew that too)

But, what I'm most excited about...

Guadalajara Mexican Restaurant!!! I love them. Great food, killer margaritas. Each one has is own vibe and they are all family owned. There is one on Shore Dr. just west of Great Neck- Big Night Life- Margaritas on tap, DJ, Dance at night. There's one on Atlantic and 21st- Mostly a bar atmoshphere with some seats, the flagship location is on Laskin near the Outback, and there is one in DT Norfolk- Huge dance hall by night. I wonder what vibe the Town Center location will have?

BTW- I heard a radio advertisment for Studio 56 today on AM 790, WNIS.

Later,

Metalman

Edited January 26, 2007 by metalman

[vdogg]

Comments about Guadalajara, etc. moved to the Stores, Retail, and Resturants thread.

[vdogg]

Does AH tower lean?

Three recent letter writers to The Virginian-Pilot insist the 22-story Armada Hoffler tower at Town Center in Virginia Beach is leaning.

Al Abiouness, an engineer who worked on the tower, said it might be off by an eighth of an inch, but it wouldn't be noticeable to the naked eye.

Maybe, Evans suggested, "we're just not used to seeing tall buildings."

[Padman]

That is too funny. Yep, and dem tower cranes lays dem little eggs.

Did I read that they are still designing the spire for the tower? That is really interesting. I can't wait to see it.