Va. Beach Town Center project 2

[vaceltic]

The last official news we had, in an article posted in this very thread actually, was that it is 70% occupied. They're doing fine.

I don't think a 70% occupancy level for a rental property is fine....because it is a new development, this should be the time where they get alot of return on their investment to save for repairs and cleaning when tenants move out and the property becomes aged. As the CBD gets more established, hopefully it will draw more residents to the Cosmo (although my sister would kill me for saying that; she is an apartment property manager in Va Beach)

Edited September 8, 2006 by vaceltic

[vdogg]

I don't think a 70% occupancy level for a rental property is fine....because it is a new development, this should be the time where they get alot of return on their investment to save for repairs and cleaning when tenants move out and the property becomes aged. As the CBD gets more established, hopefully it will draw more residents to the Cosmo (although my sister would kill me for saying that; she is an apartment property manager in Va Beach)

So what is a good occupancy level for a rental property that is new? These aren't run of the mill apartments they are luxury apartments and to have 70% occupancy of a luxury apartment in this area this early in its existence sounds good to me. I could be wrong though.

[vdogg]

For Rus. This is a summary of the article in question that guy posted back in July. Occupany could be higher now.

There is a cover story on the TC in this week's Beacon in the Pilot. Here are a few things to point out from the article:

* one visitor who has visited VB for 20 yrs was a little dissapointed with the lack of shopping. Further along the article says Blue Taxi (clothing), Daily Grind Unwind and Gordon Biersch brewery are opening this month. Kuhlman and Relax the Back and slated to open later this year.

* 70% of the Comso has been rented out.

* About 62% of the Westin's condos has been sold.

* Divaris envisions a two level retail complex adjacent to the Westin, an area used for the building's construction staging. So much for the mid-rise we thought might be built there.

[vaceltic]

So what is a good occupancy level for a rental property that is new? These aren't run of the mill apartments they are luxury apartments and to have 70% occupancy of a luxury apartment in this area this early in its existence sounds good to me. I could be wrong though.

I'm making a guess that it is not good. Rentals are different from condos because the income is dispersed over the life of the property as opposed to upfront sales. So if being a new product, the cosmo has almost 1/3 of its units empty, that doesn't bode well down the road when it must repair its luxury apartments with expensive luxury features. The fact that they are luxury shouldn't make a significant difference in the profit percentage because the costs and repairs involved to maintain the units are relative. In 2000, the vacancy rate for rental housing units in Virginia Beach was 4%. That makes 30% hardly look good.

Edited September 8, 2006 by vaceltic

[urbanlife]

I would say as new projects go up and new companies relocate to the town center and areas around it, that the rental rate for the cosmo should go higher.

I am sure it is a hard press to talk someone to live in that area if they don't work over there because then you are asking them to deal with the traffic and commuting in and out of that area. I would rather see that last 30% go to people who are deciding to relocate to be closer to work......that is such a weird thing to say about Hampton Roads. When I lived there, I was never close to work and it didn't matter.......it is good to see that things are changing for the better.

[vaceltic]

I agree urban. Those units, while pricey, will only get more attractive as more offices locate around Town Center.

[rusthebuss]

Pics from yesterday:

[vdogg]

Nice shots. I used to be able to entire building in a shot from that vantage point. It's really starting to dominate that area.

[rusthebuss]

I think they are on the 23rd floor now

I was at Bayside Hospital yesterday and could see the Westin. I took a pic but I don't have very good zoom on my camera.

[vdogg]

Public meeting to discuss Pembroke traffic

If you think traffic is a nightmare in the Pembroke area of Virginia Beach, you might want to express your frustration, your resignation or your ideas at how to solve the snarl at Independence and Virginia Beach boulevards at two public meetings the city is holding this month.

The meetings are part of the ongoing Pembroke Area Comprehensive Transportation Plan, which the engineering firm of Kimley-Horn and Associates is putting together with input from the surrounding community and city officials.

[urbanvb]

With all the extra taxes the city is earning from the many projects that are being built (TIF included) they should allocate these funds for road improvements. The city earned $3m in taxes from TC last year ($2.1 year before), funds they never had prior to TC. Realizing they have to pay for the garage surely they are able to allocate some of these funds for improvements.

[urbanlife]

They need a second connection to south of the interstate, way of Bonney Rd. And they need to look at possible light rail and streetcar uses. I streetcar system could work wonders for the Pembroke area.

Of course if it didnt displace so many people and businesses, I would say a small highway that runs north bound for a little ways to allow an access for bypass traffic.

[urbanvb]

Connecting Constitution over to Bonney may help a little although I won't be happy to see that street swamped with cars everday since I live in the neighborhood.

[urbanlife]

Connecting Constitution over to Bonney may help a little although I won't be happy to see that street swamped with cars everday since I live in the neighborhood.

Yeah, even that wouldnt be enough of a fix. the two only real fixes that could be done is the use of alternative traveling or an extension north from 264 is about the only actual options anymore.

[metalman]

I'm just gandering through proptery leasing and sale site for juicy bits of local info. Ya, know I do that kind of thing at 6 am when I havn't gone to sleep yet... But, anyway I found this tidbit. CBRE is trying to lease the bit o' land on the Central Park block of town center. The pic is old so I don't know what the status is now and they locate the protery on a map but mention it as Chesapeake, VA But, interesting notheless.

http://www.cbre.com/NR/rdonlyres/A7E1DD62-...mbusStreetP.pdf

[vdogg]

I'm just gandering through proptery leasing and sale site for juicy bits of local info. Ya, know I do that kind of thing at 6 am when I havn't gone to sleep yet... But, anyway I found this tidbit. CBRE is trying to lease the bit o' land on the Central Park block of town center. The pic is old so I don't know what the status is now and they locate the protery on a map but mention it as Chesapeake, VA But, interesting notheless.

http://www.cbre.com/NR/rdonlyres/A7E1DD62-...mbusStreetP.pdf

There is a small little wooden office building right there that is currently occupied by lawyer. It looks like they're

are just trying to lease space in that. Nothing new or major unfortunately.

[urbanvb]

That's really an old pic, kinda neat though. Galyans now known as Dicks doesn't even a parking deck yet in the pic. And the Westin lot as well as the Cosmo lot is nothing but dirt. I remember those days.

[urbanlife]

that little site could be a cool building that really works with the park....one day anyway. I am guessing that law firm is holding onto the building until the city center begins to mature.

[urbanvb]

On the original plans for TC it depicts that area having an outdoor amphitheater but it's anyones guess if/when it will ever come to fruition.

[Telmnstr]

I'm making a guess that it is not good. Rentals are different from condos because the income is dispersed over the life of the property as opposed to upfront sales. So if being a new product, the cosmo has almost 1/3 of its units empty, that doesn't bode well down the road when it must repair its luxury apartments with expensive luxury features. The fact that they are luxury shouldn't make a significant difference in the profit percentage because the costs and repairs involved to maintain the units are relative. In 2000, the vacancy rate for rental housing units in Virginia Beach was 4%. That makes 30% hardly look good.

I pulled up the prices the other day of the Town Center hirise apartments, and it was definitly at the top end of the buildings in the market (but not nearly as high as some recent investors are trying to rent their houses for. $2800/month for a home that used to carry a mortgage of around $1200/month (20% down, fixed) 3 or 4 years ago? Give me a break).

The area needs rentals, but there need to be more livable spaces. There should be the building over by Dumars coming online to compete, as well as some other properties in downtown Norfolk.

*shrug* I'm at the peak. I'm sort of thinking about looking into secretly living in commercial space.

[Telmnstr]

Town Center is doing phenominally (sp?) good and the foot traffic has really took off. To show you what type of people we are drawing, here are a few high end cars I have seen in and around TC - Ferrari, Bentley and Lotus. I couldn't help myself and stared at the 2 door Bentley I saw recently at the theater.

Sweet. From time to time you can see some high end cars in front of Todd Jurichs Bistro in downtown Norfolk. Generally Ferrari's. I don't really know how to tell a good porsche from a cheap porsche, not being a porsche fan. From time to time you will see really nice cars out on the streets, especially headed to or from the North end of Virginia Beach.

Once I almost got to race a real deal Lambo on Ferral. I was side by side, and we both ended 1 car away from the stop light. Man it would have been great to loose to that car. Blue, with a business guy driving it (not a rap music guy).

Someday, when I have like, a garage, I hope to have a 1994 GMC Typhoon and a 80s Ferrari 328 GTS. Those will be my exotics, next to the international/GMC/FORD CIT truck if I can ever frigging find one.

Overall though, people around here are about status, not the cool rides. BMW 7 series or Benz things. You don't see too many M series BMWs or AMG benz (I do have a local friend with an AMG G55 Benz tho).

I guess crotch rockets are what is in and fast around here... faster than any car. 160MPH+ on 264.

[urbanvb]

Some existing and upcoming retail at TC.

parting glances.

[metalman]

So, what's up with Tower 2? The town center website has said that tower 2 is "set to begin construction" with occupancy in '08. Are there any city council approval votes for the property? Or, could they be waiting to here was Norfolk will do with the proposed Snyder lot tower? hmmm. So, does anyone know what's up?

[vdogg]

So, what's up with Tower 2? The town center website has said that tower 2 is "set to begin construction" with occupancy in '08. Are there any city council approval votes for the property? Or, could they be waiting to here was Norfolk will do with the proposed Snyder lot tower? hmmm. So, does anyone know what's up?

No, urbanvb posted a few months ago that the tower had been postponed till next year due to rising construction costs. It'll be at least the 1st quarter of next year before anything begins, though I hope we here something sooner.

[hoobo]

There has to be other factors beyond construction costs. With a building that size and that expensive, the builder has to secure leases. With Convergence 3 supposed to come online late next year and the relocation of Trader.com to the new HQ in Norfolk in a couple months (Olympia says 17,000 sqft available Sept 2007), there should be around 80,000 sqft of available Class A space in that park alone. Toss in previous rumors (now more concrete) of Norfolk's planned tower on the Snyder lot, and AH probably thought it best to postpone Tower 2 so that it doesn't have to fight it out for tenants. Once Convergence fills its remaining space in the next year and the Snyder tower bags its marquee tenants, then I think we'll see Tower 2 come back and start signing the next wave of marquee tenants who can't get into Snyder and other occupants who can't find Class A in Pembroke. But I'll also buy into Metalman's conspiracy theory that AH is waiting for the Snyder lot tower in order to trump it in height.