CANCELED: Divinity Development

[jdevers]

I think it's great that the Barber Group is doing so much for NWA, but it seems like they think they should be able to do anything they feel like. I personnaly like the Divinity building but knowing the character of dickson st. and the surrounding area it would stick out like a sore thumb. I'm sure this is why the PC is denying it left and right.

That's the thing though, Dickson wasn't that safe of a place and definitely not what it is today before the WAC opened up. The WAC looks totally unlike any other building on Dickson and sticks out like a sore thumb NOW. What I would like to hear is the opinion of the owners of the restaurants and bars on Dickson about Divinity, while their opinion isn't everything, I doubt they would eagerly want to abandon what makes them unique.

[Mith242]

That's the thing though, Dickson wasn't that safe of a place and definitely not what it is today before the WAC opened up. The WAC looks totally unlike any other building on Dickson and sticks out like a sore thumb NOW. What I would like to hear is the opinion of the owners of the restaurants and bars on Dickson about Divinity, while their opinion isn't everything, I doubt they would eagerly want to abandon what makes them unique.

Good points. I'm just curious to see what the eventualy plans are going to look like.

[CellarDoor135]

Good points. I'm just curious to see what the eventualy plans are going to look like.

The new plans are out. Anyone seen them?

The height has been reduced to 112 ft. from the 225 ft. originally. They also compromised by increasing the setback on Church. It was all in the NWA Times. Good news though in that the city staff recommended approval.

[mcheiss]

So it's about 9 Floor or so?

[itk]

The new plans are out. Anyone seen them?

The height has been reduced to 112 ft. from the 225 ft. originally. They also compromised by increasing the setback on Church. It was all in the NWA Times. Good news though in that the city staff recommended approval.

Did they put the illustration of the new design in the newspaper? I only read the on-line version, which of course doesn't have that.

[strmchsr77]

So it's about 9 Floor or so?

Yep, down to 9...

[CellarDoor135]

Did they put the illustration of the new design in the newspaper? I only read the on-line version, which of course doesn't have that.

Not that I saw

[mcheiss]

A portion of the building will be 157 feet tall, but the majority will be 112 feet tall.

[itk]

Not that I saw

Nevermind... I discovered today you don't have to be a paid subscriber to the printed edition to view the on-line replica of the NWArk Times (though you must to view the Dem-Gaz for some reason, even though they're owned by the same company). If I was computer savvy I would post a jpg of the illustration on here.

[CellarDoor135]

Today is the last day the PC will ever have anything to say about the Divinity. 5:30 this evening they will argue, and approval or not it will go to the city council. I think they have spent to much money on this project and transformed for to many people to deny the plans once again. Plus if the overall project is denied by both the PC and the city council, Fayetteville will have one hell of a lawsuit to go through.

Just a little side form the topic looks like the almighty Barber's are having a little financial difficulty. Their credit cards (don't know whether personal or business) have been denied in a few key spots around town.

Their blackberries were shut off for a little while.

Saw this coming. Johnny Chambers does have an end to his well. With all the projects they are doing, have any of them been completed? How can they continue to build, build, build without money coming in? Not saying it may not just be a bump in the road, but it does show the strains all these projects must be putting on their business. I wonder who will be the new host of this years Gucci party.

[OnDickson]

Divinity DENIED......by a vote of 5-4 tonight. Wow.

That really surprises me--I figured the PC would cave in and give its stamp of approval on the project. Anyway, it looks like things are really going to heat up now as the Barbers will take their appeal directly to the City Council (Brandon stated that he would file the appeal 'first thing tomorrow morning'). Going to get even more interesting.

CellarDoor, you are exactly right about a potential lawsuit. From what I've heard, the Barbers are prepared for just such a situation and they have been very careful to make sure that the (re-)(re-)redesigned project meets all the existing laws, codes, etc that were in place when they made the original application for Divinity. Judging and denying Divinity based on more restrictive regulations that had yet-to-be enacted would create a real sticky legal situation and a big fat lawsuit that the city would want no part of. About the only reason the Council could deny Divinity based on existing ordinances is compatibility (or lack thereof), but I don't know how much water that would hold in court with an 18 story building just approved 3 blocks South and another 9 story building just approved 4 blocks to the West.

[mcheiss]

I smell a lawsuit.

I can't believe this didn't get approve, this is terrible.

[masons_dad1]

^^

The Barbers better be careful. They don't want Fayetteville to take their property using eminent domain like what happened to Wal-Mart in that small California town after Wal-Mart spent millions and did everything they could to make the planned store look and feel the way the residents wanted it. It sounds to me like the Barbers shou;d just pack up and move their plans to Rogers where it would get passed without a hitch. They could go as high as they wanted with the building height and not even have to worry about "it has too much glass" or "it's the wrong color".

[CellarDoor135]

I smell a lawsuit.

I can't believe this didn't get approve, this is terrible.

Regardless of their financial situation, I believe they have a right to take this to court. I hope they bring a lawsuit. If developers are going to have to go through three rounds to get their developments denied by the PC then there is no other action. This is a case of the PC trying to flex their muscles and doing it horribly wrong. This would never happen in Rogers. Hopefully the City Council has a little more sense but I'm not holding my breath.

Good luck to the Barber group

[cowbreath]

I smell a lawsuit.

I can't believe this didn't get approve, this is terrible.

Is there any good online forum that by the city of Fayetteville to discuss this issue, or is there a way to contact them with opinion? If not, it seems they can't really have good representation (a poll would be good too).

Dickson Street is not exactly the prettiest of places. Although there has been much development to fill it in over the past 10 years, it still lacks in scale and consistency. I am proud of its progress and its flavor, but as a passerby I don't understand how that is an issue. At night it looks its best because you can't see it too well. The point about the WAC being a sore thumb should be a valid point for the PC.

Since the Barber's are trying to cash in on Fayetteville's allure, you wouldn't think they'd want to build something that ruins any of the allure. Here's some advice to them, though: copy the renaissance tower design and they'll be good.

[OnDickson]

Here's some advice to them, though: copy the renaissance tower design and they'll be good.

Totally agree, cowbreath. If the building was designed with at least some of the traditional or conservative elements of buildings like the 3 Sisters, the Renaissance, or the Underwood Building this wouldn't have turned into the monumental cluster that it has.

Being a Dickson Street property and business owner, I've heard from folks on all sides of this issue. The 2 main things that always come up from opponents of this project are: 1)Height and 2)Style (it doesn't 'fit' with downtown buildings like those above). And, it's #2 that comes up far more often than the height issue. I guess what has surprised me the most is that in all of the redesigns the Barbers have seemingly focused on height only--rather than trying to alter the appearance of the building in any way. I still maintain that the Divinity might very well have passed at 12 stories high--if the exterior design were redesigned in a 3 Sisters or Renaissance like way.

I don't mean to give the impression that I don't support this project because I do--from a business and property value standpoint. Personally though, I don't much care for the design and I'm afraid that it could be quite an eyesore looking down (West) on Dickson from 71B. I agree with the editorial mentioned early in this thread: it looks eerily similar another notorious Fayetteville eyesore--the old Mountain Inn.

[CellarDoor135]

Totally agree, cowbreath. If the building was designed with at least some of the traditional or conservative elements of buildings like the 3 Sisters, the Renaissance, or the Underwood Building this wouldn't have turned into the monumental cluster that it has.

Being a Dickson Street property and business owner, I've heard from folks on all sides of this issue. The 2 main things that always come up from opponents of this project are: 1)Height and 2)Style (it doesn't 'fit' with downtown buildings like those above). And, it's #2 that comes up far more often than the height issue. I guess what has surprised me the most is that in all of the redesigns the Barbers have seemingly focused on height only--rather than trying to alter the appearance of the building in any way. I still maintain that the Divinity might very well have passed at 12 stories high--if the exterior design were redesigned in a 3 Sisters or Renaissance like way.

I don't mean to give the impression that I don't support this project because I do--from a business and property value standpoint. Personally though, I don't much care for the design and I'm afraid that it could be quite an eyesore looking down (West) on Dickson from 71B. I agree with the editorial mentioned early in this thread: it looks eerily similar another notorious Fayetteville eyesore--the old Mountain Inn.

The design oddly enough looks like a modern version of Yocum hall on the U of A campus. I could see many years down the road this turning into an eyesore. I just hate to see the PC trying to be all high and mighty by sh*ting on someones hard work.

[bobhazor]

Is there any good online forum that by the city of Fayetteville to discuss this issue, or is there a way to contact them with opinion? If not, it seems they can't really have good representation (a poll would be good too).

Dickson Street is not exactly the prettiest of places. Although there has been much development to fill it in over the past 10 years, it still lacks in scale and consistency. I am proud of its progress and its flavor, but as a passerby I don't understand how that is an issue. At night it looks its best because you can't see it too well. The point about the WAC being a sore thumb should be a valid point for the PC.

Since the Barber's are trying to cash in on Fayetteville's allure, you wouldn't think they'd want to build something that ruins any of the allure. Here's some advice to them, though: copy the renaissance tower design and they'll be good.

The best way to voice opinion would be to go to the city council meeting on July 6th (if Barber gets it on the agenda, which I'm sure they will) and let the council know how you feel in a public/live forum. I know 5newsonline.com sometimes does polls and currently has a forum set up on this very topic. Here's some email addresses.

here's the mayor's office

[email protected]

and the city council members

brenda theil

[email protected]

kyle cook

[email protected]

don marr

[email protected]

robert rhoads

[email protected]

bobby ferrell

[email protected]

shirley lucas

[email protected]

lioneld jordan

[email protected]

[masons_dad1]

^^

Doesn't the city of Fayetteville have an urban planner? It would make it simpler if they had an urban planner to work with developers to design a building that will fit in and save a lot of wasted time and money for the developers to guess what the PC will accept. If Fayetteville wants to become the old town with all the short earth tone buildings then let them. Send all the tall, modern, high-tech building designs up here to Rogers where everything new is modern high-tech.

Fayetteville = Urban Classical

Rogers = Urban Contemporary

Also, why are people so concerned about Divinity becoming an "eyesore" when Fayetteville already has the most "eyesores" in NWA?

[OnDickson]

Also, why are people so concerned about Divinity becoming an "eyesore" when Fayetteville already has the most "eyesores" in NWA?

Nice to see you taking pot-shots at Fayetteville once again. Seems you find a way to get at least on dig in against Fayetteville in every thread, so why should this one be any different, huh? Lets just say that there are people who would strongly disagree with your statement and leave it at that.

If Fayetteville wants to become the old town with all the short earth tone buildings then let them. Send all the tall, modern, high-tech building designs up here to Rogers where everything new is modern high-tech.

Comparing development in downtown Fayetteville with development along 540 in Benton County is like comparing apples and oranges. Divinity would fit in quite nicely there, as well as along 540 or Joyce Blvd in Fayetteville. But how well will it fit in with the Washington/Willow Historical District, St. Paul's Episcopal Church, the Mt. Nord Historical District, 1st United Methodist Church, the Headquarters House?? Because these are the things that will literally be in the shadows of Divinity once it is constructed. Why indeed would anyone be concerned about building compatibility or the possibility of a future eyesore located here?

[bobhazor]

It seems some people in Fayetteville think the city should look like a forest with knee-high brown buildings and cell towers painted green at the bottom and blue at the top (that are more of an eye-sore than any regular tower against the real foliage); undeveloped rolling hills, a park on every corner, and bike trails that are better kept than the city streets. I'm enjoy the natural beauty of Fayetteville very much, but it is also a city where people live and where people need space. Why can't we have one or two sharp looking taller buildings on Dickson St. Would it really ruin the atmosphere down there? I think to the contrary. The Divinity Building is exactly what Dickson Street needs. Let's have it.

[strmchsr77]

Welcome to the forum Cowbreath.

I agree with everyone about the design of the the Divinity building, it probably would have gone over better if it were more like the Renassiance, 3 sisters, the Underwood, or even the Barbers own building...the Legacy.

But do all buildings in all cities have to stick to one design??? Pretty much every city I have visited or lived in have a number of different styles of architecture in their skyline. Classical, Historical, Modern, etc. Why do these morons think they are better city planners than everyone else in the world? One reason is because they have some problem with building height! It is not like the Barbers are going to build a 60 story building on the space. The original height of 15 stories is 100% acceptable. I am sure the Radisson (Hilton) stuck out a little in the beginning but the rest of the area will continue to rise as time goes by. This corner of Dickson and Church/Block is a great downtown connector from the square to Dickson. Taller/Mix-use buildings would work perfect in the area.

Also, what am I going to say to the city council? Especially people like Kyle Cook. I know I can email him but will he listen? NO!! Council members like him are against everything that means growth. Annexation, highrises, and over all infill is even hard to get by him. Until we get them OFF the council/commission we are going to continue to have problems downtown and through out most of the city. So what can we do?

[bobhazor]

Well, one or two folks sending emails to city council members probably wouldn't do much. It's important to note that, now that the pc has denied Barber, the council will decide. Nevertheless, a slew of pro-Divinity emails and comments would probably make them think twice about upsetting their constituancy. I have heard them quote emails they've recieved during several city council meetings.

[masons_dad1]

Nice to see you taking pot-shots at Fayetteville once again. Seems you find a way to get at least on dig in against Fayetteville in every thread, so why should this one be any different, huh? Lets just say that there are people who would strongly disagree with your statement and leave it at that.

Oh that wasn't a pot-shot... I was just stating an obvious fact. Fayetteville does have some of the biggest eyesores in NWA. That multi-story tenement building just north of Dickson Street. The one with the ugly black water stains running down the sides. The least they could do is bleach the stains or something. They should build the Divinity between that building and Dickson Street just to block out that real eyesore. In fact, there are a few of these multi-story tenement eyesores in downtown Fayetteville.

Comparing development in downtown Fayetteville with development along 540 in Benton County is like comparing apples and oranges. Divinity would fit in quite nicely there, as well as along 540 or Joyce Blvd in Fayetteville. But how well will it fit in with the Washington/Willow Historical District, St. Paul's Episcopal Church, the Mt. Nord Historical District, 1st United Methodist Church, the Headquarters House?? Because these are the things that will literally be in the shadows of Divinity once it is constructed. Why indeed would anyone be concerned about building compatibility or the possibility of a future eyesore located here?

The Divinity wouldn't even be within view of most of the Washington/Willow Historical District or any of Fayetteville's Historic Districts. Not unless you plan to chop down a lot of trees and climb on top of one of those historic houses to look for Divinity. And if you do that you'll most likely be offended by the other eyesores that you'll see from your roof. Besides, I think St. Paul's Episcopal Church would look just as nice, if not nicer, crammed between modern buildings as it does between old buildings.

The fact is that Fayetteville has yet to come up with any plan of where there will be growth in downtown and where there will just be old buildings and trees. If the city is to grow outside of downtown then expect very little support for downtown services when the funds are redirected to the fastest growing, more prosperous areas of the city. There is a lot of infill space in downtown Fayetteville that will be wasted space that generates no funds for the city unless it is developed and it's not going to get developed if the city keeps turning away great developments like Divinity.

[masons_dad1]

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