CANCELED: Divinity Development

[Mith242]

Yeah I've been hearing rumors about this project not going through. It's a shame, although obviously a lot of people in Fayetteville aren't happy about it. Not sure what else they would try to put there. I wonder if this major investor is pulling out because of all the people against it or for other reasons. Anyway it sounds like if it doesn't go through it might be made into another pay parking lot until they decide what they want to do with it. Not sure how a pay lot will work if the church just a little way down the street opens a parking deck. Although I would imagine that the Barber group wouldn't want it left as a parking lot for very long anyway. Looks like if the Barber group still wants to do a boutique hotel they might have to move it closer to the downtown area and not on Dickson.

[mcheiss]

I've heard rumors of a 3 to 4 floor mixed use project that would include street front retail, a restaurant and a few condos.

[Mith242]

I've heard rumors of a 3 to 4 floor mixed use project that would include street front retail, a restaurant and a few condos.

[mcheiss]

I imagine that wouldn't have any problems getting passed and getting everyone off their back if they do opt for that. I also wonder if it means they'll totally give up on the boutique hotel idea for Fayetteville or look for another location.

[Mith242]

My guess is that they will give up the idea on the upscale hotel. The Radisson is going to be overhauled to what a Radisson should be and the Mountain Inn Development will have a nice Mariott in it. The market would seem to be overbuilt in that general area. Of course I could be wrong and the need for upscale hotels could be huge.

[jiggyK]

Move it further away like over by the Radisson/Cosmopolitan or renaissance area and I'm not sure people are going to want to walk from there.

[Mith242]

the radisson area is not far at all from dickson st. people have serious problems if they're not willing to walk a couple of blocks. that's one of the nice things about urban areas: things are within walking distance.

[masons_dad1]

I've heard rumors of a 3 to 4 floor mixed use project that would include street front retail, a restaurant and a few condos.

[mcheiss]

I think it's more desirable to have a Dickson Street address than an "off-Dickson" address and who wouldn't die for the ability to step out of your lobby and be right on Dickson?

[masons_dad1]

Not everyone wants to hear drunks all night.

[cocothief]

I think a 4-5 story mixed use project here would do more to connect Dickson and the square than a luxury hotel anyway.

I believe the condo market is very saturated in Fayetteville, and will only become moreso with a few more projects now coming online.

In my opinioin, Divinity is a very ambitious project, perhaps a decade ahead of its time for Fayetteville.

Throw in the new hotel rooms in the immediate area, and a mixed use retail/restaurant/ less luxury condo building makes more sense.

I hope the project is revisited and something more akin to Three Sisters is developed.

[masons_dad1]

I think a 4-5 story mixed use project here would do more to connect Dickson and the square than a luxury hotel anyway.

I believe the condo market is very saturated in Fayetteville, and will only become moreso with a few more projects now coming online.

In my opinioin, Divinity is a very ambitious project, perhaps a decade ahead of its time for Fayetteville.

Throw in the new hotel rooms in the immediate area, and a mixed use retail/restaurant/ less luxury condo building makes more sense.

I hope the project is revisited and something more akin to Three Sisters is developed.

[Mith242]

Not everyone wants to hear drunks all night.

[mzweig]

I wouldn't mind seeing several more Three Sisters buildings on Dickson Street. I really like that building.

[Mith242]

It's a great building. I don't think Three Sisters is Brandon Barber's style, however. He prefers a flashier, Dallas look in all his projects. He doesn't have very good architectural taste, in my opinion.

[das450]

Divinity Cancelled

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2007/05/...7fzdivinity.txt

It appears that money has dried up and this will be the first of many I suspect.

[mzweig]

Divinity Cancelled

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2007/05/...7fzdivinity.txt

It appears that money has dried up and this will be the first of many I suspect.

[mcheiss]

Divinity Cancelled

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2007/05/...7fzdivinity.txt

It appears that money has dried up and this will be the first of many I suspect.

[strmchsr77]

You can thank the City of Fayetteville and the two idiots that filed suit. The downtown area and the entire city just missed out on millions of tax dollars that we need badly. For the past 6 or 7 months we have been falling well short of last years taxes and this trend will continue until we have someone on the council who knows what they are doing.

[CellarDoor135]

The city can't approve something just based on how much money it could *potentially* bring in. You have you look at the long run, that building would have been there for a long time down the road and if it negatively impacted the look and feel of dickson it really wouldn't have been worth it. It could have easily been another mountain inn. Besides, who says that the divinity was the best thing that could have been built there? The Barbers paid $5 million for that parcel, do you really think it's just going to sit vacant? Why not something more along the l ines of the the three sisters?

[zman9810]

The city can't approve something just based on how much money it could *potentially* bring in. You have you look at the long run, that building would have been there for a long time down the road and if it negatively impacted the look and feel of dickson it really wouldn't have been worth it. It could have easily been another mountain inn. Besides, who says that the divinity was the best thing that could have been built there? The Barbers paid $5 million for that parcel, do you really think it's just going to sit vacant? Why not something more along the l ines of the the three sisters?

[cocothief]

I really don't think the planning process killed this project.

Seriously, you're talking about a megamillion dollar project here.

The redesigns and legal representation at the meetings didn't blow the pro forma.

Legacy hasn't sold as expected, and there's no market here for more luxury condos at this time.

Blaming the city and the activists, et al for this withdrawal is simply saving face for planning and attempting a project WAY ahead of its time here.

Not to mention the property they purchased was bought at what I consider to be way above market price in order to force this thing through.

No company is going to come out and say "we were wrong, the market can't sustain this project, we have no idea what we were thinking".

Its nobody's fault here but Barber Group.

[strmchsr77]

The city can't approve something just based on how much money it could *potentially* bring in. You have you look at the long run, that building would have been there for a long time down the road and if it negatively impacted the look and feel of dickson it really wouldn't have been worth it. It could have easily been another mountain inn. Besides, who says that the divinity was the best thing that could have been built there? The Barbers paid $5 million for that parcel, do you really think it's just going to sit vacant? Why not something more along the l ines of the the three sisters?

[mzweig]

I really don't think the planning process killed this project.

Seriously, you're talking about a megamillion dollar project here.

The redesigns and legal representation at the meetings didn't blow the pro forma.

Legacy hasn't sold as expected, and there's no market here for more luxury condos at this time.

Blaming the city and the activists, et al for this withdrawal is simply saving face for planning and attempting a project WAY ahead of its time here.

Not to mention the property they purchased was bought at what I consider to be way above market price in order to force this thing through.

No company is going to come out and say "we were wrong, the market can't sustain this project, we have no idea what we were thinking".

Its nobody's fault here but Barber Group.

[cocothief]

http://www.nwanews.com/nwat/News/53620/

Article from 6/1/07 about Barber's decision to 86 Divinity.

Barber maintains that the development was absolutely killed by the lawsuit. I don't want to call him a liar, but I find that hard to believe.

Regardless of a supposed "timeline" being set back a year to 18 months, the costs associated with this project are almost entirely sunk costs. If you develop today or ten years from now, you still have a note for the land and the accrual of interest.

The design and redesign costs are all sunk costs as well. Those have already been billed and paid.

I think market conditions are the stronger factor in their decision to kill the project than any pending lawsuit. It just doesn't add up that this uncertainty alone would cause them to abandon all of this investment in the project up to this point. If demand was stronger, I feel they would fight this lawsuit, incur the 20k or so in legal fees and proceed. The profits from (if profitable) a project of this size would outweigh any lawsuit and associated fees in my opinion. Lawyers respond to the lawsuit, I don't see how this roadblock would be any more time consuming for Barber than any other typical project. Even if the lawsuit made it to court, I can't see the time and trouble factor being so huge as to make it necessary to abandon the money already spent on this project.

Its the market.